J Jefferson throwing shade at Cousins

[RandyMoss84]

If Justin thinks Burrow has more swagger then Vikings should trade him to the Bengals

Randy I think I lost a couple IQ points just by reading this post and I suspect the same thing with others.

It was a joke

[IIsweet]

JJ is a big time WR and will be for a long time. In his rookie season, he calls out the seasoned vet QB for not throwing the ball. The rookie understands the way the play develops and is going to be open, yet Kirk is afraid to do so. Always has been.
Kirk is a great thrower of the football. He throws a great pass to the wide open WR, TE, RB. Probably as well as anyone in the game right now. Problem is, that he does not throw with great anticipation, the lame duck like me calls him scared. He waits until the guy is open before throwing the ball. He has made a lot of money by being an accurate passer. It is who he is.
JJ, Diggs, and Thielen are absolutely correct when they call out Kirk. On these plays that they practice, the throws are based on timing and trusting that the guy will be there. Yet in the games, Kirk is afraid to cut it loose. By not turning the ball over, he does not lose his job and he continues to get PAID !!! He has the highest completion percentage of all QBs. Why? He waits to throw to the open player. Nothing wrong with this formula but the players obviously don't like it.

[StumpHunter]

This particular instance may be a non-story, it makes sense for JJ to talk up Burrow. It's different when you play with a guy and a team that you chose, versus the NFL where you don't have a say.

A lot of people say Diggs is a diva but I don't remember him being that way until the end was near. JJ has the famous "throw the #### flag (route), Kirk!" that got caught on TV. Even Thielen and Cousins have gotten into it on the sidelines. That could all just be really competitive guys letting the moment get the best of them, it's tough to say but we've had 3 very good/elite receivers on this team and all have openly expressed frustration with Cousins at one time or another. At some point, you have to start wondering.

People that reacted to that quote have never played football in their lives. Its not being a diva, its not being a cancer. No one is beyond reproach and that reproach in the middle of a game isn't always filled with Please and thank yous. The sideline incident with AT and KC was about how he wanted the route run. Kirk was looking for a quick corner route but had to hold the ball when AT ran a double move. AT ran an inside move back to the corner (not quite a post corner) and kirk was telling him, I don't have time to hold the ball. Again, not a big deal but people blew it up.

The issue wasn't that Kirk told his WR that he wants him to do something different, the issue was that AT yelled at his QB when his QB told him to run a different route.

There are just too many incidents of players saying things about their QB or reacting to their QB in a negative way to brush aside. Kirk gets more shade thrown his way from current and former teammates than just about any QB I can remember, and there has got to be a reason for that.

[VikingsVictorious]

Randy I think I lost a couple IQ points just by reading this post and I suspect the same thing with others.

It was a joke

Sorry. Jokes/Sarcasm often doesn't come across in print.

[VikingsVictorious]

JJ is a big time WR and will be for a long time. In his rookie season, he calls out the seasoned vet QB for not throwing the ball. The rookie understands the way the play develops and is going to be open, yet Kirk is afraid to do so. Always has been.
Kirk is a great thrower of the football. He throws a great pass to the wide open WR, TE, RB. Probably as well as anyone in the game right now. Problem is, that he does not throw with great anticipation, the lame duck like me calls him scared. He waits until the guy is open before throwing the ball. He has made a lot of money by being an accurate passer. It is who he is.
JJ, Diggs, and Thielen are absolutely correct when they call out Kirk. On these plays that they practice, the throws are based on timing and trusting that the guy will be there. Yet in the games, Kirk is afraid to cut it loose. By not turning the ball over, he does not lose his job and he continues to get PAID !!! He has the highest completion percentage of all QBs. Why? He waits to throw to the open player. Nothing wrong with this formula but the players obviously don't like it.

Afraid is such a prejudicial word. Kirk makes the decisions when to pass the ball and when not to. He does a very good job of that.

[VikingsVictorious]

People that reacted to that quote have never played football in their lives. Its not being a diva, its not being a cancer. No one is beyond reproach and that reproach in the middle of a game isn't always filled with Please and thank yous. The sideline incident with AT and KC was about how he wanted the route run. Kirk was looking for a quick corner route but had to hold the ball when AT ran a double move. AT ran an inside move back to the corner (not quite a post corner) and kirk was telling him, I don't have time to hold the ball. Again, not a big deal but people blew it up.

The issue wasn't that Kirk told his WR that he wants him to do something different, the issue was that AT yelled at his QB when his QB told him to run a different route.

There are just too many incidents of players saying things about their QB or reacting to their QB in a negative way to brush aside. Kirk gets more shade thrown his way from current and former teammates than just about any QB I can remember, and there has got to be a reason for that.

I finally figure it's time to take you off ignore and this is about the first thing I see. JJ threw no shade at Kirk. Thielen threw no shade at Kirk. Diggs may have in a roundabout way. There is no problem between Kirk and Thielen/Jefferson. However, you will do your brilliant detective work and think that there is.

[StumpHunter]

The issue wasn't that Kirk told his WR that he wants him to do something different, the issue was that AT yelled at his QB when his QB told him to run a different route.

There are just too many incidents of players saying things about their QB or reacting to their QB in a negative way to brush aside. Kirk gets more shade thrown his way from current and former teammates than just about any QB I can remember, and there has got to be a reason for that.

I finally figure it's time to take you off ignore and this is about the first thing I see. JJ threw no shade at Kirk. Thielen threw no shade at Kirk. Diggs may have in a roundabout way. There is no problem between Kirk and Thielen/Jefferson. However, you will do your brilliant detective work and think that there is.

Theilen and Diggs certainly did, more so Theilen:

At some point, you’re not going to be able to run the ball for 180 yards, even with the best running back in the NFL, that’s when you have to be able to throw the ball… You have to be able to hit the deep balls.

Diggs never was that outspoken against Kirk and his subtle jab was tweeting his way out of MN immediately following Cousins signing his extension.

JJ didn't necessarily throw shade in this article, but did curse out his QB on national television when Kirk missed him in the end zone.

There are other examples (what Griffen tweeted this past year for instance), but even without those that is a lot more conflict with his WRs than any QB, good or terrible, has gone through that I can remember.

[808vikingsfan]

Didn't like him before he came to this team, and nothing that he's done here has made me change my mind. Among his poor pocket presence, inability to buy time in the pocket or extend plays, his most debilitating trait is that he's scared of failing. Must be frustrating for the OL and WR to play with a QB like Cousins.

If Cousins was on another team, i would bet no one here would be defending him.

[VikingsVictorious]

I finally figure it's time to take you off ignore and this is about the first thing I see. JJ threw no shade at Kirk. Thielen threw no shade at Kirk. Diggs may have in a roundabout way. There is no problem between Kirk and Thielen/Jefferson. However, you will do your brilliant detective work and think that there is.

Theilen and Diggs certainly did, more so Theilen:

At some point, you’re not going to be able to run the ball for 180 yards, even with the best running back in the NFL, that’s when you have to be able to throw the ball… You have to be able to hit the deep balls.

Diggs never was that outspoken against Kirk and his subtle jab was tweeting his way out of MN immediately following Cousins signing his extension.

JJ didn't necessarily throw shade in this article, but did curse out his QB on national television when Kirk missed him in the end zone.

There are other examples (what Griffen tweeted this past year for instance), but even without those that is a lot more conflict with his WRs than any QB, good or terrible, has gone through that I can remember.

Great talent for making mountains out of not mole hills. not ant hills. Something smaller. No conflict at all.

[VikingsVictorious]

Didn't like him before he came to this team, and nothing that he's done here has made me change my mind. Among his poor pocket presence, inability to buy time in the pocket or extend plays, his most debilitating trait is that he's scared of failing. Must be frustrating for the OL and WR to play with a QB like Cousins.

If Cousins was on another team, i would bet no one here would be defending him.

What a load of BS. They are setting records receiving passes from Cousins.

[VikingLord]

Didn't like him before he came to this team, and nothing that he's done here has made me change my mind. Among his poor pocket presence, inability to buy time in the pocket or extend plays, his most debilitating trait is that he's scared of failing. Must be frustrating for the OL and WR to play with a QB like Cousins.

If Cousins was on another team, i would bet no one here would be defending him.

Just out of curiosity, but what did you want Spielman to do the year the Vikings signed Cousins? IIRC, Keenum's 1-year deal was up and they could have signed him to a longer deal and make him the starter (which the Broncos did). Cousins was the only veteran QB worth anything who was on the market that year. I believe this is a list of the QBs that were available in the draft that year https://www.walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php. The Vikings drafted 30th that year (yes, they took Mike Hughes) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft.

What would have been the move that you would have preferred Spielman and Zimmer make at the position given what was known at the time?

Let's not bring the extension of Cousins into the picture for purposes of this - just what move would have been best?

[StumpHunter]

Didn't like him before he came to this team, and nothing that he's done here has made me change my mind. Among his poor pocket presence, inability to buy time in the pocket or extend plays, his most debilitating trait is that he's scared of failing. Must be frustrating for the OL and WR to play with a QB like Cousins.

If Cousins was on another team, i would bet no one here would be defending him.

Just out of curiosity, but what did you want Spielman to do the year the Vikings signed Cousins? IIRC, Keenum's 1-year deal was up and they could have signed him to a longer deal and make him the starter (which the Broncos did). Cousins was the only veteran QB worth anything who was on the market that year. I don't recall the QBs who were available in the draft that year or where the Vikings picked and what they would have had to give up to get one of them.

But given that situation, what would have been the move that you would have preferred Spielman and Zimmer make at the position?

Only a future MVP was available and the Vikings would have missed out on drafting Mike Hughes to get him.

The best move was keeping Teddy or Case as bridge QBs and drafting Jackson.

Heck, even if they fail to draft Jackson Tannehill was a better option the next season if Teddy or Case failed.

Brady or Rivers were better or as good of options in 2020.

This year I will guess that Wentz has as much or more success than Cousins will have.

All that to say there were, are and will be better options than paying a .500 QB the most money in the NFL from 2018-2022.

[VikingLord]

Just out of curiosity, but what did you want Spielman to do the year the Vikings signed Cousins? IIRC, Keenum's 1-year deal was up and they could have signed him to a longer deal and make him the starter (which the Broncos did). Cousins was the only veteran QB worth anything who was on the market that year. I don't recall the QBs who were available in the draft that year or where the Vikings picked and what they would have had to give up to get one of them.

But given that situation, what would have been the move that you would have preferred Spielman and Zimmer make at the position?

Only a future MVP was available and the Vikings would have missed out on drafting Mike Hughes to get him.

The best move was keeping Teddy or Case as bridge QBs and drafting Jackson.

Heck, even if they fail to draft Jackson Tannehill was a better option the next season if Teddy or Case failed.

Brady or Rivers were better or as good of options in 2020.

This year I will guess that Wentz has as much or more success than Cousins will have.

All that to say there were, are and will be better options than paying a .500 QB the most money in the NFL from 2018-2022.

But the point is, based on what was known at the time was the move to get Cousins objectively poor?

At the WalterFootball link of QB prospects that year, Jackson was the 4th rated prospect coming out, and he was taken 32nd in that draft, so it wasn't obvious he was going to be a future MVP, much less the best QB to come out of that draft. It is true the Vikings could have taken him instead of Hughes, but it isn't true that would have been an objectively better move at the time.

I am not defending drafting Hughes (I didn't agree with that move and thought he was a reach at that spot and not a good positional choice either) or the move to get Cousins (I continue to believe that teams do not let obvious franchise QBs walk. Ever.), but IIRC there was quite a bit of hype around Cousins and many analysts at the time thought Spielman's move to get him was a good one.

[StumpHunter]

Only a future MVP was available and the Vikings would have missed out on drafting Mike Hughes to get him.

The best move was keeping Teddy or Case as bridge QBs and drafting Jackson.

Heck, even if they fail to draft Jackson Tannehill was a better option the next season if Teddy or Case failed.

Brady or Rivers were better or as good of options in 2020.

This year I will guess that Wentz has as much or more success than Cousins will have.

All that to say there were, are and will be better options than paying a .500 QB the most money in the NFL from 2018-2022.

But the point is, based on what was known at the time was the move to get Cousins objectively poor?

Absolutely. Overpaying for a QB who had a significant history of not being good enough was never going to work. Overpaying for a HOFer like Brett Favre or Peyton Manning sure, that makes sense if you have the team to compete right now. But breaking the bank to sign Kirk Cousins?

[S197]

This particular instance may be a non-story, it makes sense for JJ to talk up Burrow. It's different when you play with a guy and a team that you chose, versus the NFL where you don't have a say.

A lot of people say Diggs is a diva but I don't remember him being that way until the end was near. JJ has the famous "throw the #### flag (route), Kirk!" that got caught on TV. Even Thielen and Cousins have gotten into it on the sidelines. That could all just be really competitive guys letting the moment get the best of them, it's tough to say but we've had 3 very good/elite receivers on this team and all have openly expressed frustration with Cousins at one time or another. At some point, you have to start wondering.

People that reacted to that quote have never played football in their lives. Its not being a diva, its not being a cancer. No one is beyond reproach and that reproach in the middle of a game isn't always filled with Please and thank yous. The sideline incident with AT and KC was about how he wanted the route run. Kirk was looking for a quick corner route but had to hold the ball when AT ran a double move. AT ran an inside move back to the corner (not quite a post corner) and kirk was telling him, I don't have time to hold the ball. Again, not a big deal but people blew it up.

What I'm saying is if you look at everything in a vacuum then it's all nothing. But as more incidents come out, it gives it a little more validity. I don't recall any other rookie receivers cussing out their QB's. There's mics all over these games, if it was a common occurrence then it wouldn't have been a story because it would be heard all the time. Pat McAfee tells a story about Peyton Manning and how he basically benched Austin Collie mid-game in his rookie year for not trying to catch a football with two hands. He basically told Collie, "if you ever do that again, you're never #### playing on my team again." Do you think Austin Collie would ever have the audacity to tell Peyton to throw the #### ball?