The Zimmer Principle

[Maelstrom88]

I think if you put that much money into the quarterback position it becomes extremely critical that you hit on cheap draft picks and that your coaching staff as well as probably your quarterback because he's being paid so much need to be great teachers and leaders.

As far as running backs go I'm okay giving an elite back good money I just don't want it to be for more than 3 years. I do believe there are halfbacks special enough to justify spending that money. Dalvin Cook in my opinion is in that class he just doesn't have a great history of staying healthy which was my concern. He is the engine that makes this offense go though and if they could ever put a good offensive line in front of him I think he would challenge for MVP.

[J. Kapp 11]

I think if you put that much money into the quarterback position it becomes extremely critical that you hit on cheap draft picks and that your coaching staff as well as probably your quarterback because he's being paid so much need to be great teachers and leaders.

As far as running backs go I'm okay giving an elite back good money I just don't want it to be for more than 3 years. I do believe there are halfbacks special enough to justify spending that money. Dalvin Cook in my opinion is in that class he just doesn't have a great history of staying healthy which was my concern. He is the engine that makes this offense go though and if they could ever put a good offensive line in front of him I think he would challenge for MVP.

Here's something that may surprise many.

I agree with you. Dalvin is special. Put a great O-line in front of him, and he might just be the MVP.

The problem is that Kirk Cousins is not special.

Cousins is going to represent a $45 million cap hit in 2022. If we go by the 17% rule, and Dalvin is set to make $12 million, then Cousins should represent about $20 million in cap space. If the cap is higher than the projected $190 million, then sure. Give him more. But by the 17% rule, $20 million should be the max.

Honestly guys, is Kirk Cousins really more than a $20 million quarterback?

Sure, his stats bear out a solid $20 million, I agree. But what about his ability to improvise? His ability to win games late when his team is trailing? His record against better teams? His ability (or lack thereof) to elevate his team?

So again, the Vikings have dug themselves a hole. They'll be paying Mahomes money to Kirk Cousins. That situation makes the real engine, Dalvin Cook, less affordable. The Vikings will be OK in 2021. They're making it work. But 2022? Yikes.

And what does "OK" represent in 2021? A Wild Card? One win in the playoffs and out?

This team doesn't have a long-term sense of itself. It's a "scratch where it itches" approach to building a football team.

[CharVike]

I am not going to analyze players or the cap but will only give my hunch on the wilff, Zimmer, and Speilman situation going into this season. They way they are stacking the roster suggests that this is an all in year. The Wilffs like Mike and Rick and firing coaches and GM’s while common sends out a negative message publicly.

My prognostication is that they will go all in on this 2021 season. If they fail I think Zim will be allowed to retire in a face saving move, hang around at the ranch and “unretire” and end up as a defensive coordinator on some other team. Rick will discretely be given the opportunity to seek other options and leave the Vikings without us ever getting the satisfaction of seeing the Vikings fire them publicly.

The result will be another mess that will take years to pull ourselves out of. As someone who started following the Vikings in game #1 in 1961 at 10 years old I will have to start taking more vitamins and exercising more so I can ride out another Vikings rebuild in my quest to see a Super Bowl win. My time as a Vikings fan goes back to before there was such thing as a Super Bowl so I have been waiting for a while.

First off I just wanted to post that it's very cool to have an old time fan posting. You have seen it all. I started in 1970 at 10. Another rebuild by that I mean canning everybody and starting from scratch isn't something I want to see at this point. That would be a huge mess. The Wiffls are hanging with Speilman. Speilman has put together a solid team. Our team can beat the big dogs but they must be playing at the top of there game to do it. If they are flat or whatever good teams can steam roll them. Speilman doesn't do everything I want. But no GM will. At least I'm positive about our QB for the first time since???? I don't even know. Cook is fantastic and Jefferson is a great young player. Our D is a joke right now but they are trying big time to fix it. We have a chance. Not as good as the teams with HOF QBs but it's not a nothing deal either.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Honestly guys, is Kirk Cousins really more than a $20 million quarterback?

Sure, his stats bear out a solid $20 million, I agree. But what about his ability to improvise? His ability to win games late when his team is trailing? His record against better teams? His ability (or lack thereof) to elevate his team?

Good discussion guys but I had to address this Kapp. I mean come on, $20 million a year, really?? Do I agree that Kirk should be making $45 million next year? No. But given they didnt extend him shows me they are probably looking to move on from him. They eventually have to stop pushing money down the line by extending him at some point. Seeing they didnt do it this year when his cap number was so high next year, shows me that they are making this his "prove it" year. Which I dont think is a bad thing.

But as for the $20 million, that's just plain silly. Especially with how the QB market is right now. Just to put that into perspective, the only "non-rookie contract" starters that are paid less than $20 mill on average is Big Ben, whoever the Saints starter is this year, Fitzmagic and Andy Dalton. I dont care what you think of Kirk, he's worth much more than $20 million a year. No less what are you gauging this scale off of? Like what dollar amount is a QB deserving of? There is no scale so I'm not really sure what that is based off of. The QB market just doesnt work that way. I feel like so many fans (not saying you) were brainwashed by Keenums contract/success in 2017. It's like they want to say "see, we dont need to pay a QB big money to succeed". Okay, lets be honest, that was an insanely luck driven year by Keenum. No less, he was riding the #1 defense in the NFL. Which reminds me.....

In 2017 the Vikings had the #1 defense in the NFL and allowed 15.8 points per game on average. Saw a tweet the other day that read.....

"If Kirk Cousins had the 2017 Vikings defense and you pair that with his 2020 offensive success, the Vikings would've finished 14-2 this past year, give or take a game".

That alone should say enough.

[StumpHunter]

Honestly guys, is Kirk Cousins really more than a $20 million quarterback?

Sure, his stats bear out a solid $20 million, I agree. But what about his ability to improvise? His ability to win games late when his team is trailing? His record against better teams? His ability (or lack thereof) to elevate his team?

Good discussion guys but I had to address this Kapp. I mean come on, $20 million a year, really?? Do I agree that Kirk should be making $45 million next year? No. But given they didnt extend him shows me they are probably looking to move on from him. They eventually have to stop pushing money down the line by extending him at some point. Seeing they didnt do it this year when his cap number was so high next year, shows me that they are making this his "prove it" year. Which I dont think is a bad thing.

But as for the $20 million, that's just plain silly. Especially with how the QB market is right now. Just to put that into perspective, the only "non-rookie contract" starters that are paid less than $20 mill on average is Big Ben, whoever the Saints starter is this year, Fitzmagic and Andy Dalton. I dont care what you think of Kirk, he's worth much more than $20 million a year. No less what are you gauging this scale off of? Like what dollar amount is a QB deserving of? There is no scale so I'm not really sure what that is based off of. The QB market just doesnt work that way. I feel like so many fans (not saying you) were brainwashed by Keenums contract/success in 2017. It's like they want to say "see, we dont need to pay a QB big money to succeed". Okay, lets be honest, that was an insanely luck driven year by Keenum. No less, he was riding the #1 defense in the NFL. Which reminds me.....

Is Cousins providing twice the value that Dalton is going to provide the Bears? I am not saying Dalton is as good a QB as Cousins, far from it, but at the end of the day Dalton was 4-5 as the starter for the Cowboys, Cousins was 7-9 for the Vikings. Both had talented WRs, both had talented RBs, both had bad defenses and both were a game below .500.

Besides, poor decisions on contracts for QBs do not tell us what the market value is for a QB. Good decisions do. So if Rodgers is making 30 million a year on his contract, is Cousins worth close to that? Not based on his impact on winning games he isn't.

In 2017 the Vikings had the #1 defense in the NFL and allowed 15.8 points per game on average. Saw a tweet the other day that read.....

"If Kirk Cousins had the 2017 Vikings defense and you pair that with his 2020 offensive success, the Vikings would've finished 14-2 this past year, give or take a game".

That alone should say enough.

If the Carolina Panthers had given up only 15.8 points per game they would have been 15-1. The Jaquars would have been 10-6, the Cowboys would have been 13-3.

The Jets are the only team that wouldn't have had a good record and still would have lost 11 games.

That is a silly stat.

[StanM]

I am not going to analyze players or the cap but will only give my hunch on the wilff, Zimmer, and Speilman situation going into this season. They way they are stacking the roster suggests that this is an all in year. The Wilffs like Mike and Rick and firing coaches and GM’s while common sends out a negative message publicly.

My prognostication is that they will go all in on this 2021 season. If they fail I think Zim will be allowed to retire in a face saving move, hang around at the ranch and “unretire” and end up as a defensive coordinator on some other team. Rick will discretely be given the opportunity to seek other options and leave the Vikings without us ever getting the satisfaction of seeing the Vikings fire them publicly.

The result will be another mess that will take years to pull ourselves out of. As someone who started following the Vikings in game #1 in 1961 at 10 years old I will have to start taking more vitamins and exercising more so I can ride out another Vikings rebuild in my quest to see a Super Bowl win. My time as a Vikings fan goes back to before there was such thing as a Super Bowl so I have been waiting for a while.

First off I just wanted to post that it's very cool to have an old time fan posting. You have seen it all. I started in 1970 at 10. Another rebuild by that I mean canning everybody and starting from scratch isn't something I want to see at this point. That would be a huge mess. The Wiffls are hanging with Speilman. Speilman has put together a solid team. Our team can beat the big dogs but they must be playing at the top of there game to do it. If they are flat or whatever good teams can steam roll them. Speilman doesn't do everything I want. But no GM will. At least I'm positive about our QB for the first time since???? I don't even know. Cook is fantastic and Jefferson is a great young player. Our D is a joke right now but they are trying big time to fix it. We have a chance. Not as good as the teams with HOF QBs but it's not a nothing deal either.

Yeah, I guess I have been around for a few years. I watched the Ice Bowl live in black and white and my favorite QB as a kid was Johnny Unitus. Unfortunately that just makes me old and not any smarter when it comes to today’s NFL. I do keep up with things one all the YouTube channels that cover the Vikings so I know a little bit. That’s the fun part, we are all right until events actually happen. I guess the main point I have as making is that the Wilffs respect their people and give them every opportunity to succeed. If they ever decide to move on they don’t seem like the kind of owners who will drag coaches and GM’s through the mud like some owners would. I think we can all agree that we like that approach better than owners who throw their hand picked people under the bus.

[Maelstrom88]

First off I just wanted to post that it's very cool to have an old time fan posting. You have seen it all. I started in 1970 at 10. Another rebuild by that I mean canning everybody and starting from scratch isn't something I want to see at this point. That would be a huge mess. The Wiffls are hanging with Speilman. Speilman has put together a solid team. Our team can beat the big dogs but they must be playing at the top of there game to do it. If they are flat or whatever good teams can steam roll them. Speilman doesn't do everything I want. But no GM will. At least I'm positive about our QB for the first time since???? I don't even know. Cook is fantastic and Jefferson is a great young player. Our D is a joke right now but they are trying big time to fix it. We have a chance. Not as good as the teams with HOF QBs but it's not a nothing deal either.

Yeah, I guess I have been around for a few years. I watched the Ice Bowl live in black and white and my favorite QB as a kid was Johnny Unitus. Unfortunately that just makes me old and not any smarter when it comes to today’s NFL. I do keep up with things one all the YouTube channels that cover the Vikings so I know a little bit. That’s the fun part, we are all right until events actually happen. I guess the main point I have as making is that the Wilffs respect their people and give them every opportunity to succeed. If they ever decide to move on they don’t seem like the kind of owners who will drag coaches and GM’s through the mud like some owners would. I think we can all agree that we like that approach better than owners who throw their hand picked people under the bus.

I was just talking the other day to my wife about people who would have been around 10 when the Vikings became a thing and just imagine watching for that long and not having seen your team win it all. Still enjoyable but man I want them to win for the longtime fans more than anything. I'm not sure the current leadership has what it takes unfortunately. I guess this next year will show us a lot in that respect. Anyways, great to have you on the board and I look forward to more posts from you!

[S197]

That's fine. I'm not talking about offensive balance. Yes, balance is great. Wonderful. Yes, the better teams do both well. Yes, it's fun to watch Cook run. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how much you combine to PAY your QB1 and your RB1.

In the original post of this thread, my comment was that it's wise to choose: Pay your QB or the RB big money, but not both. It's when you start to pay them both that you get into trouble. The magic number is 17%. When teams pay their QB1 and RB1 a combined 17% or more of their total cap, they are losing teams 70% of the time.

You mention Green Bay. Yes, Aaron Jones rushed for 1K in 2020, but he also made just $2.3 million. Rodgers was $21.6 million against the cap. A total of $23.9 million, or 12% of the salary cap. Reasonable, and well under the 17%.

In 2020, Derrick Henry rushed for 2K but only counted $6 million against the cap, with Ryan Tannehill at $22.5 million. A total of $28.5 million, or 14% of the cap. Again, reasonable and under 17%.

In 2022, Cousins and Cook will combine for $57 million. That's about 30% of the projected cap. It's nearly a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

Do you see the disparity?

You are kind of comparing apples to oranges here.

In 2020 the Vikings RB and QB counted as 25 million against the cap. So right in line with the Packers and TN. Cook didn't make a lot in 2020, but did provide a lot of value, similar to Jones and Henry.

In 2022 Henry and Tannehill will account for 49 million against the cap, the same with Jones and Rodgers. For both of those teams, just like the Vikings, the RB is making a fraction of what the QB is.

It is a recipe for disaster, but mostly because TN and the Vikings are overpaying average QBs and Rodgers is likely to regress due to his age. Not because the RB salaries.

I will also point out that the Vikings can cut Cook after this season and only eat 9 million in dead cap. 9 million that could be spread over 2 seasons to make that number pretty insignificant. Jones and Henry have similar outs, albeit cheaper ones. In other words those RBs are only going to get paid for as long as they produce. Nothing to be concerned about.

The difference is the Packers have options. Rodgers has zero guaranteed salary in 2022. If they cut him, they can save $22.6 million. And they also have a seasoned 1st round pick waiting in the wings.

The Vikings have $45M owed to Kirk Cousins and no one waiting in the wings.

The two situations are vastly different when you look at it in totality.

[CharVike]

I think if you put that much money into the quarterback position it becomes extremely critical that you hit on cheap draft picks and that your coaching staff as well as probably your quarterback because he's being paid so much need to be great teachers and leaders.

As far as running backs go I'm okay giving an elite back good money I just don't want it to be for more than 3 years. I do believe there are halfbacks special enough to justify spending that money. Dalvin Cook in my opinion is in that class he just doesn't have a great history of staying healthy which was my concern. He is the engine that makes this offense go though and if they could ever put a good offensive line in front of him I think he would challenge for MVP.

Here's something that may surprise many.

I agree with you. Dalvin is special. Put a great O-line in front of him, and he might just be the MVP.

The problem is that Kirk Cousins is not special.

Cousins is going to represent a $45 million cap hit in 2022. If we go by the 17% rule, and Dalvin is set to make $12 million, then Cousins should represent about $20 million in cap space. If the cap is higher than the projected $190 million, then sure. Give him more. But by the 17% rule, $20 million should be the max.

Honestly guys, is Kirk Cousins really more than a $20 million quarterback?

Sure, his stats bear out a solid $20 million, I agree. But what about his ability to improvise? His ability to win games late when his team is trailing? His record against better teams? His ability (or lack thereof) to elevate his team?

So again, the Vikings have dug themselves a hole. They'll be paying Mahomes money to Kirk Cousins. That situation makes the real engine, Dalvin Cook, less affordable. The Vikings will be OK in 2021. They're making it work. But 2022? Yikes.

And what does "OK" represent in 2021? A Wild Card? One win in the playoffs and out?

This team doesn't have a long-term sense of itself. It's a "scratch where it itches" approach to building a football team.

When you say special about any player that really has no meaning. Mahomes has become the bench mark for QBs. He lead his team to back to back Super Bowls. He's better than Rodgers by a mile based on that. But Mahomes lead his team to zero TDs in the Super Bowl. There was nothing special about that. He let an old man beat him. There's nothing special about that either. He had a 52 rating. That's laughable. He has down moments also and he's special. Every team scratches were it itches. The Bucs needed a QB the itch and the scratch was Brady. Maybe the best FA signing in the history of the NFL. He took a 7-9 squad to a Super Bowl victory beating the most special QB easily. That's how you scratch. There's no reason why that won't happen again. I don't think the Bucs showed a long term sense of itself they happen to hit it out of the park with a guy that I thought what a stupid signing. 43 years old. Good luck with that one. It worked perfect. That Pats had an itch no QB and the scratch was Newton. They are still scratching with no long term sense of itself. I know that Cousins is labeled a loser for some reason. But the guy was a low round pick for a QB and beat out a top 5 franchise QB. That's a big win in my book. That takes hard work. Or good luck some will call it I'm sure. We face the same problem that we have faced for a very long time. We need to be out a future HOF MVP QB. I don't see that as an easy task. I would rather be in the NFC East were the winner Dak will take that one. No competition helps.

[StumpHunter]

When you say special about any player that really has no meaning.

Mahomes has been to the SB 2 of his first 3 seasons as a starter, and went to OT in the AFCCG in the other. Brady has more SB rings than any other QB. Rodgers consistently wins and is arguably the best statistical QB of all time. Wilson has never not made the playoffs and might be the best comeback QB of all time. Brees had elite level accuracy, makes reads quicker than any QB in the history of the NFL, and consistently had a top 10 offense no matter what was put around him. Big Ben was a physically gifted passer who's ability to make big plays kept his team in almost every game.

I could post a lot more about these QBs that prove they are special, but that really should be enough. There are special QBs who's teams win because they are the QB, then there are the QBs who win because their team is so good it is tough not win. You know which one of those Cousins is.

I know that Cousins is labeled a loser for some reason.

Probably because he loses a lot.

But the guy was a low round pick for a QB and beat out a top 5 franchise QB.

After 3 seasons he finally managed to beat out elites the likes of Colt McCoy and RG3. What an accomplishment...

[StanM]

Yeah, I guess I have been around for a few years. I watched the Ice Bowl live in black and white and my favorite QB as a kid was Johnny Unitus. Unfortunately that just makes me old and not any smarter when it comes to today’s NFL. I do keep up with things one all the YouTube channels that cover the Vikings so I know a little bit. That’s the fun part, we are all right until events actually happen. I guess the main point I have as making is that the Wilffs respect their people and give them every opportunity to succeed. If they ever decide to move on they don’t seem like the kind of owners who will drag coaches and GM’s through the mud like some owners would. I think we can all agree that we like that approach better than owners who throw their hand picked people under the bus.

I was just talking the other day to my wife about people who would have been around 10 when the Vikings became a thing and just imagine watching for that long and not having seen your team win it all. Still enjoyable but man I want them to win for the longtime fans more than anything. I'm not sure the current leadership has what it takes unfortunately. I guess this next year will show us a lot in that respect. Anyways, great to have you on the board and I look forward to more posts from you!

No worries, age teaches lessons that I hadn’t learned yet at 25 when I would lose my cool and yell at the TV. If they win one fine, if not I enjoyed the ride. Football is my fall and winter passion, Sprint Car racing is my year around obsession. I wrote and took photos for racing publications for close to 20 years and had a lot of fun with that. The ultimate would be for my favorite driver to win the Knoxville Nationals in August and the Vikings to follow up with a Super Bowl. The Grim Reaper could have his way with me then.

[CharVike]

Yeah, I guess I have been around for a few years. I watched the Ice Bowl live in black and white and my favorite QB as a kid was Johnny Unitus. Unfortunately that just makes me old and not any smarter when it comes to today’s NFL. I do keep up with things one all the YouTube channels that cover the Vikings so I know a little bit. That’s the fun part, we are all right until events actually happen. I guess the main point I have as making is that the Wilffs respect their people and give them every opportunity to succeed. If they ever decide to move on they don’t seem like the kind of owners who will drag coaches and GM’s through the mud like some owners would. I think we can all agree that we like that approach better than owners who throw their hand picked people under the bus.

I was just talking the other day to my wife about people who would have been around 10 when the Vikings became a thing and just imagine watching for that long and not having seen your team win it all. Still enjoyable but man I want them to win for the longtime fans more than anything. I'm not sure the current leadership has what it takes unfortunately. I guess this next year will show us a lot in that respect. Anyways, great to have you on the board and I look forward to more posts from you!

When I was younger before 40 the Vikings winning or losing set the tone for the week. I'm not like that any more. If I was our GM I don't even know how I could get this current squad into the Super Bowl. I don't see us winning the division with Rodgers in it. He's the MVP and plays the most important position. The guys off the charts. He's not slowing down either. He's getting better with age. The guy before him on the team was off the charts. Does that mean winning the Super Bowl for the Pack every year. No. When you get in the playoffs anything can happen. Then when that bum Keenum lead us to the Champ game and we were facing another bum QB who wasn't even sure he wanted to play anymore I thought this goes against everything I ever thought about the game. Looking back is easy. That Saints team seemed to have figure our team out. They came storming back after halftime. Yes we won with the miracle but the ground work for disaster was laid out. The media wasn't even talking about our team. It was like we didn't exist. Then our bum QB threw a pick six and once you do that teams fall apart. We did it against the 49ers in the playoffs when Rutland had a pick six and sent us to the Champ game at Washington. Wilson threw a pick six last year and sent his team home. They can clean the entire house out right now. From Speilman right down the line. Scouts coaches ect..even Cousins just cut him. Sign another stiff cheap QB for about 10 million Newton? and sign a bunch of FA. But we will stiff face the same problem in our division. The best QB in the NFC IMO. Who will be playing better. Good luck getting people to buy tickets to watch that crap show. People won't shell out money for a product that the owner doesn't even care about. Bottom line do I see us getting to the Super Bowl this year? Nope. I don't see us beating out Rodgers for a start. So it will be wild card if we play great and on the road. Then we will need to face the GOAT at some point and he will kick our rears. Hows that for uplifting. Hang in there maybe this QB Love the Pack picked will blow and our chances will be better when he takes over in 5 or 6 years.

[J. Kapp 11]

Here's something that may surprise many.

I agree with you. Dalvin is special. Put a great O-line in front of him, and he might just be the MVP.

The problem is that Kirk Cousins is not special.

Cousins is going to represent a $45 million cap hit in 2022. If we go by the 17% rule, and Dalvin is set to make $12 million, then Cousins should represent about $20 million in cap space. If the cap is higher than the projected $190 million, then sure. Give him more. But by the 17% rule, $20 million should be the max.

Honestly guys, is Kirk Cousins really more than a $20 million quarterback?

Sure, his stats bear out a solid $20 million, I agree. But what about his ability to improvise? His ability to win games late when his team is trailing? His record against better teams? His ability (or lack thereof) to elevate his team?

So again, the Vikings have dug themselves a hole. They'll be paying Mahomes money to Kirk Cousins. That situation makes the real engine, Dalvin Cook, less affordable. The Vikings will be OK in 2021. They're making it work. But 2022? Yikes.

And what does "OK" represent in 2021? A Wild Card? One win in the playoffs and out?

This team doesn't have a long-term sense of itself. It's a "scratch where it itches" approach to building a football team.

When you say special about any player that really has no meaning. Mahomes has become the bench mark for QBs. He lead his team to back to back Super Bowls. He's better than Rodgers by a mile based on that. But Mahomes lead his team to zero TDs in the Super Bowl. There was nothing special about that. He let an old man beat him. There's nothing special about that either. He had a 52 rating. That's laughable. He has down moments also and he's special. Every team scratches were it itches. The Bucs needed a QB the itch and the scratch was Brady. Maybe the best FA signing in the history of the NFL. He took a 7-9 squad to a Super Bowl victory beating the most special QB easily. That's how you scratch. There's no reason why that won't happen again. I don't think the Bucs showed a long term sense of itself they happen to hit it out of the park with a guy that I thought what a stupid signing. 43 years old. Good luck with that one. It worked perfect. That Pats had an itch no QB and the scratch was Newton. They are still scratching with no long term sense of itself. I know that Cousins is labeled a loser for some reason. But the guy was a low round pick for a QB and beat out a top 5 franchise QB. That's a big win in my book. That takes hard work. Or good luck some will call it I'm sure. We face the same problem that we have faced for a very long time. We need to be out a future HOF MVP QB. I don't see that as an easy task. I would rather be in the NFC East were the winner Dak will take that one. No competition helps.

Friend, there are a LOT of hardworking men in the NFL. A lot. Compared to the average high school football player, they're all special. Compared to the vast majority of college players, they're special.

But there are only 1,696 players in the NFL, and maybe 48 quarterbacks. So in this case, "special" means you stand out against your peers, who are the best of the best. To be special in the NFL, you've got to accomplish something more than earning a starting position. Spergon Wynn started 3 games in the NFL as a quarterback. Spergon Wynn was not special. Patrick Mahomes was MVP in his first year as a starter and won a Super Bowl in his second. That's special. I've given you an extreme comparison, obviously, but it's to make a point. Special is more than starting. Stump Hunter laid out a more complete argument, but I hope you get the picture.

Many make the case for Kirk Cousins' being special because of his stats. Here's an interesting comp. If you compare Cousins' first 93 games in the league to the first 93 games of Matt Ryan and Drew Brees, Cousins' stats are significantly better. But any comparison to those two is silly. Ryan was league MVP and made a Super Bowl, which he should have won. Brees made 13 Pro Bowls, was a Super Bowl MVP, and will be a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. Meanwhile Kirk Cousins has one playoff win.

When I say Kirk Cousins isn't special, I'm talking about highest-paid-player-in-the-league kind of special. Unless something changes, that's exactly what he'll be in 2022. Do you honestly believe his play merits being the highest-paid player in the NFL?

[CharVike]

I was just talking the other day to my wife about people who would have been around 10 when the Vikings became a thing and just imagine watching for that long and not having seen your team win it all. Still enjoyable but man I want them to win for the longtime fans more than anything. I'm not sure the current leadership has what it takes unfortunately. I guess this next year will show us a lot in that respect. Anyways, great to have you on the board and I look forward to more posts from you!

When I was younger before 40 the Vikings winning or losing set the tone for the week. I'm not like that any more. If I was our GM I don't even know how I could get this current squad into the Super Bowl. I don't see us winning the division with Rodgers in it. He's the MVP and plays the most important position. The guys off the charts. He's not slowing down either. He's getting better with age. The guy before him on the team was off the charts. Does that mean winning the Super Bowl for the Pack every year. No. When you get in the playoffs anything can happen. Then when that bum Keenum lead us to the Champ game and we were facing another bum QB who wasn't even sure he wanted to play anymore I thought this goes against everything I ever thought about the game. Looking back is easy. That Saints team seemed to have figure our team out. They came storming back after halftime. Yes we won with the miracle but the ground work for disaster was laid out. The media wasn't even talking about our team. It was like we didn't exist. Then our bum QB threw a pick six and once you do that teams fall apart. We did it against the 49ers in the playoffs when Rutland had a pick six and sent us to the Champ game at Washington. Wilson threw a pick six last year and sent his team home. They can clean the entire house out right now. From Speilman right down the line. Scouts coaches ect..even Cousins just cut him. Sign another stiff cheap QB for about 10 million Newton? and sign a bunch of FA. But we will stiff face the same problem in our division. The best QB in the NFC IMO. Who will be playing better. Good luck getting people to buy tickets to watch that crap show. People won't shell out money for a product that the owner doesn't even care about. Bottom line do I see us getting to the Super Bowl this year? Nope. I don't see us beating out Rodgers for a start. So it will be wild card if we play great and on the road. Then we will need to face the GOAT at some point and he will kick our rears. Hows that for uplifting. Hang in there maybe this QB Love the Pack picked will blow and our chances will be better when he takes over in 5 or 6 years.

One last thing.... I keep suggesting picking a QB in round one and still firmly believe that. Because if the guy turns out to be a HOF MVP type of QB life becomes much easier for a team for the next 20 years. I know there is zero chance of that because Speilman and the rest would like to try and win now. I don't blame them for that. They are pros and competitive which means trying to win now. We might pick a guy in round whatever but that makes it more unlikely to get the type of QB I'm talking about.

[J. Kapp 11]

Honestly guys, is Kirk Cousins really more than a $20 million quarterback?

Sure, his stats bear out a solid $20 million, I agree. But what about his ability to improvise? His ability to win games late when his team is trailing? His record against better teams? His ability (or lack thereof) to elevate his team?

Good discussion guys but I had to address this Kapp. I mean come on, $20 million a year, really?? Do I agree that Kirk should be making $45 million next year? No. But given they didnt extend him shows me they are probably looking to move on from him. They eventually have to stop pushing money down the line by extending him at some point. Seeing they didnt do it this year when his cap number was so high next year, shows me that they are making this his "prove it" year. Which I dont think is a bad thing.

But as for the $20 million, that's just plain silly. Especially with how the QB market is right now. Just to put that into perspective, the only "non-rookie contract" starters that are paid less than $20 mill on average is Big Ben, whoever the Saints starter is this year, Fitzmagic and Andy Dalton. I dont care what you think of Kirk, he's worth much more than $20 million a year. No less what are you gauging this scale off of? Like what dollar amount is a QB deserving of? There is no scale so I'm not really sure what that is based off of. The QB market just doesnt work that way. I feel like so many fans (not saying you) were brainwashed by Keenums contract/success in 2017. It's like they want to say "see, we dont need to pay a QB big money to succeed". Okay, lets be honest, that was an insanely luck driven year by Keenum. No less, he was riding the #1 defense in the NFL. Which reminds me.....

In 2017 the Vikings had the #1 defense in the NFL and allowed 15.8 points per game on average. Saw a tweet the other day that read.....

"If Kirk Cousins had the 2017 Vikings defense and you pair that with his 2020 offensive success, the Vikings would've finished 14-2 this past year, give or take a game".

That alone should say enough.

First off, let's not deal in hypotheticals. I can make that 15.8 ppg case for a LOT of quarterbacks. Let's stick to the facts.

So ... $20 million is silly. Fine. What's the right number? You've already said that his play doesn't warrant $45 million. How about the $31 million he'll make in 2021? It's highly subjective, I realize. But what's your number? Was he worth the $21 the Vikings paid him in 2020?

Before you answer, please note that Cousins' Total QBR was 18th in the NFL last year. He ranked behind Teddy Bridgewater ($14 million cap hit in 2020), Matthew Stafford ($21.3 million), Kyler Murray ($8 million), Baker Mayfield ($9 million), Ryan Fitzpatrick ($4 million), and a slew of other QBs who made less than Cousins. Aaron Rodgers, league MVP and No. 1 in Total QBR, made the same as Cousins. Meanwhile, Cousins ranked one spot ahead of Philip Rivers, and ended up less than 2 QBR points ahead of such stalwarts as Daniel Jones and Mitchell Trubisky.

Kirk Cousins once again had great stats. Maybe the best of his career. But when you compare his actual play to the other quarterbacks in the league, that $20 million doesn't seem quite as far-fetched.

I'll grant you that he probably is worth a little more than that. But the franchise-paralyzing $76 million he'll make over the next two years? Now that's silly.