Next OC for the Vikings?

[808vikingsfan]

Sorry man ... just occurred to me that my reply to your post probably looked like I was arguing with what you said. Actually I was agreeing with you. I'm guessing you knew that, but just making sure.

I'm wondering. Has any NFL quarterback besides Wilson ever led his team to the playoffs in each of his first nine seasons?

I can't find the answer, but if so, the list can't be long.

That, more than anything, is why I'd choose Russell Wilson over Kirk Cousins at twice the price (not literally ... figure of speech). But don't be offended, Cousins fans. I'd choose Russell Wilson over all but maybe two QBs in the NFL right now, and even those would be touch choices. The guy flat-out wins. We're talking 98 regular-season wins in 9 seasons, the most by any QB in NFL history. He's added 9 playoff wins, which means he's averaged just shy of 12 total wins per season since he entered the league. I've been at this Vikings fan thing for 52 years. I'd like to see us win the trophy ONCE in my freaking lifetime.

Sorry, I did get that you were agreeing with me and I was just expanding on your stats.

It is crazy what Wilson has done right from the start and he might be the most underrated QB in football considering what he means for his team. You plug him into any team in the NFL and he has the worst in the NFL competing for the playoffs, and he makes an average team a SB contender.

Outside of WR and QB, that Seattle team was pretty mediocre, and they won 12 games. That is the difference an elite QB makes.

This debate only happens on a Vikings board.

[StumpHunter]

Never said it did?

You just justified the signing of Cousins with those signings which means you tried to justify a move by our GM with poor decisions by other GMs. That is why your argument was so absurd.

I'm sorry but you lost any sort of credibility you had when you did a mock offseason showing us keeping Keenum as our starter for going on FOUR years now and just "solving" the QB dilemma this past draft with Jordan Love who is far from a sure thing and IMO, a project QB at best that wont pan out. And then on top of that, overpaying a boat load of free agents we could never even afford even with Keenums contract and not Kirks. And then on top of that, thinking we'd somehow still have Diggs (who would've also costed us much more than Jefferson) because you have this laughable belief that he left because of Kirk Cousins. Ha, yeah Diggs left because of Kirk Cousins (who gave him the best years of his career) but would've stuck around for 4 years and be best pals with Case Keenum (who is right back to where I always said he'd be....the bench).

But you're going to try and say Spielman's move for Cousins was stupid....when THAT ^ was your genius plan??!! Ooof....

That team with Case Keenum where every FA that I wanted to "overpay for" lived up to, or outperformed their contract (except ironically the one FA we actually did sign, Pierce) would have been better than the one we put on the field last season. Much better. Easily a playoff team better, with possibly the future at QB on the roster.

Also, my plan wasn't for Case to be our QB for the past four years, just the past one when he was available via free agency. The hypothetical plan I had involved a trade of Cousins to free up the cap to sign all of those free agents. However, what exactly would we have lost out on with Case at QB the past 3 seasons?

If I had my way originally, prior to the signing of Cousins, our QB for the past 3 years would have been Lamar Jackson, with Case or Teddy being bridge QBs until he was ready. Is that better than what Rick did? Just curious.

[StumpHunter]

https://purpleptsd.com/kirkcousinswasclutch/

This article just came out. Just throwing this out there.

Man is he clutch...in 19% of the opportunities to be clutch:

https://purplepainforums.com/thread/411 ... ing-drives

The Vikings lead the NFL in turnovers in the 4th when down a score or less of the opponent since 2018. Only 1 of the turnovers was not perpetrated by Kirk Cousins during that time. Only the NYJs come close to their level of ineptitude in that spot.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You just justified the signing of Cousins with those signings which means you tried to justify a move by our GM with poor decisions by other GMs. That is why your argument was so absurd.

What? Okay, do you want me to use different QBs because I can. QBs that perform in this league that are in there prime and playing well are going to get paid big money on the open market or come extension time. I don’t understand why you don’t get that.

That team with Case Keenum where every FA that I wanted to "overpay for" lived up to, or outperformed their contract (except ironically the one FA we actually did sign, Pierce) would have been better than the one we put on the field last season. Much better. Easily a playoff team better, with possibly the future at QB on the roster.

Also, my plan wasn't for Case to be our QB for the past four years, just the past one when he was available via free agency. The hypothetical plan I had involved a trade of Cousins to free up the cap to sign all of those free agents. However, what exactly would we have lost out on with Case at QB the past 3 seasons?

If I had my way originally, prior to the signing of Cousins, our QB for the past 3 years would have been Lamar Jackson, with Case or Teddy being bridge QBs until he was ready. Is that better than what Rick did? Just curious.

Did you really just say “overpaid for”? Did you not read my original response to your mock offseason? I included contracts of what those guys landed on the open market. When you add all that up, plus Keenum, plus diggs, plus Harris and the 900 other guys you signed as you pulled money from the clouds, yeah you drastically overpaid and went way over the salary cap. You’re the first to complain about our cap and how cousins is basically at fault for everything and has ruined everything, you just tried to build a team through free agency, and resign all these other players. How was that even close to realistic. You know that keenum would be getting more than $2 million correct.

And you’re just contradicting yourself at this point. You never once said this past year would be the year you’d sign keenum from what I recall unless I read it wrong. BUT regardless, let’s say you did say that, you also still had diggs here??? How the hell did you think that was going to happen? I mean you do still think diggs left because of cousins. Are you really that blinded by the cousins hate? Do you really think that if the Vikings cut cousins and signed keenum diggs would be like “oh hell yeah I’m going to stay now because we have case and not Kirk”??? That is fricken LAUGHABLE. No less we’d STILL be running a run heavy scheme which diggs came out and said that was exactly why he was frustrated but guys like you continue to ignore it.

Bottom line is, your mock offseason was not realistic and did absolutely nothing for us salary cap wise other than just strap us even more. And let’s be honest, how often does building through free agency work? I recall a handful of teams that have tried it and have drastically failed.

And I’m sorry, but Jordan love is not the answer. And he needs a lot more than just one year behind case keenum. Hell, he wouldn’t be ready to start this year and he sat behind Aaron Rodgers for a year.

And that’s right....Lamar Jackson who showed this year exactly what I said about him coming out and you went up one side of me and down the other. Jackson had an mvp season and slowly went backwards and will continue to go backwards. Carson wentz was once in that spot and look at wentz now. Lamar Jackson is not a good QB. He’s an athlete playing QB. Adam Thielen and Justin Jefferson would be an absolute waste on this team because they wouldn’t touch the ball. There is a reason Baltimore doesn’t pass the ball like KC. Out of all QBs that played 15+ games, Lamar Jackson was 2nd to last in passing attempts ahead of only Cam Newton....by 8 attempts. Lamar Jackson is extremely limited as a passer. Go ahead and hunt for any meaningless stat you can to defend that but I honestly don’t care. He’s a limited passer.

Oh and better yet....you ready for this one? You wanted Lamar Jackson right? Please tell me you also think Stefon diggs would still be here? Diggs would’ve bounced following 2018 let alone 2019. You want to sit there and think that diggs left because of cousins but literally would’ve touched the ball HALF as much with Lamar Jackson. You think diggs would be cool with that? Not a single shot in hell and you know it. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if both Thielen and diggs wanted out. Baltimore’s LEADING WR had 769 yards on 58 catches this year. Their NUMBER ONE! Jackson would’ve been lucky to please our #1 in Thielen let alone our #2 in diggs. No less diggs already practically said he didn’t want to be part of a run heavy offense.

But Cousins forced diggs out right?!!! As you sit here talking about Lamar Jackson

[Pondering Her Percy]

https://purpleptsd.com/kirkcousinswasclutch/

This article just came out. Just throwing this out there.

Man is he clutch...in 19% of the opportunities to be clutch:

https://purplepainforums.com/thread/411 ... ing-drives

The Vikings lead the NFL in turnovers in the 4th when down a score or less of the opponent since 2018. Only 1 of the turnovers was not perpetrated by Kirk Cousins during that time. Only the NYJs come close to their level of ineptitude in that spot.

Lol always ignoring the facts....

[Pondering Her Percy]

I get the overall sentiment of what you're saying. But who knows why Diggs left? Could have been many things. Though I'll counter that players rarely ask to leave teams with elite QB play, and in fact do just the opposite and TRY to go to teams with QB's they think give them the best shot to win.

Without knowing why Diggs wanted out, simply in terms of QB play his move to Buffalo was genius. His last season with the Vikes he had 63 catches for 1130 yards and 6tds. He was targeted 94 times.

In his FIRST year with Buffalo he had 127 catches for 1535 and 8td. He was targeted 127 times, more than double his last season in Minnesota.

I won't pretend to know why Diggs wanted to leave or suggest it was only because he didn't want to play with Kirk. But wide receivers more than anyone love to play with great QB's, and after his first season in Buffalo it sure appears like he moved on to a better quarterback.

The deal worked out for both teams. In the end, it could work out better for Minnesota, depending on who they get with the other three draft picks they got in the deal (or who they trade them for). Also, Justin Jefferson is more than 5 years younger than Diggs, and every bit as productive.

Here's the thing, though. In 2018, Diggs was targeted 149 times and had 102 receptions with 9 TDs. So it's not like he wasn't used here in Minnesota. Also, I have a hard time believing it had much to do with the quarterbacks. Remember, the 2019 version of Josh Allen, while sort of improved over his rookie year, was nowhere near the version he was in 2020. In 2019, Allen was a 58-percent passer with an 85 rating. Heck, he wasn't anywhere near Kirk Cousins' level in 2019.

Diggs wanted out for multiple reasons.

1) He wasn't getting the ball as much as he did when John DeFilippo was OC. Dude had 58 catches in the first half of 2018, then his targets took a dive in '19.
2) Adam Thielen got an extension that paid more than Diggs, which Diggs didn't like.
3) He didn't like the direction the Vikings were going offensively ... from tons of shotgun and spread formations under JDF to heavy sets and the running game under Stefanski.

If Stefon Diggs left because of Josh Allen, then he's freaking Nostradamus. I'm not sure anybody could have known that Allen would have the kind of breakout he had.

Thank you!! I’m glad someone else sees the reality of things. I’ve literally made these exact points plenty of times on this board. Stefon diggs did not leave because of cousins. He literally came out and said that he was blindsided by the team switching to a run heavy offense....but some just continue to ignore. Cousins gave him the best year of his career in 2018. And let’s be honest, whether you like cousins or not, he is an excellent pure passer. Josh Allen was a dumpster fire of a passer in 2019. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if diggs was frustrated behind closed doors that buffalo is where he went. Because they WERE a run heavy offense and had a horribly inaccurate QB.

And in regards to the other points, yes he was always overshadowed by Thielen and paid less than Thielen. Greenway came out and said he thought that’s why diggs was being a diva.

And what he did in buffalo is irrelevant to me. Literally all they did was throw and they knew they had to to please diggs. The bills could’ve went 0-16 and diggs could’ve had this exact same year statistically and I can 100% guarantee you diggs wouldnt have complained one bit.

I can just about guarantee that diggs said he wanted out via Twitter after cousins was signed to an extension BECAUSE he knew it would continue to be a run heavy offense. He knew nothing was going to change and there was no going back to flips pass happy offense. So he went from being overshadowed by Thielen to now being overshadowed by Thielen AND cook for the rest of cousins tenure. That’s not anything against cousins, it’s the philosophy. He would’ve been the 3rd wheel just like in 2019. In 2019, he was bitc*ing early on because he wasn’t getting the ball due to Thielen and cook. Thielen goes down, diggs doesn’t say boo, was all fiery on the sidelines trying to be a leader, slapping cousins on the as* acting like his best pal, acting like he’s some sort of team player. Thielen comes back and you catch diggs bitc*ing at cousins vs the saints because he wasn’t getting the ball again. The midway point of that season was an act by diggs. He wanted the organization to side to with him, believe he was a leader, believe he could be THEE guy and do it all. I’m not saying he couldn’t because obviously he could given this past year in buffalo but I don’t want a player like that on my team if it was up to me. I was all over diggs bull crap antics in 2019 and brought it up multiple times on here. He’s not a team player and he’s not a leader. He all about himself. He wants the attention. So badly that after they lose to KC he stays on the field for the trophy presentation. Why? Because he knew the cameras would be on him. Again another ACT.

I love listening to this guys podcasts. He actually did a podcast on the Packers urinal I made for Tommy Kramer. But anyways, this says it all and it’s damn near exactly what I’m saying. He talks about diggs quotes in that article this year and what he said about the Vikings and how he is entirely an ACT. Check out the link....

https://youtu.be/dhlr72cDjgA

....rant over lol. I’ll take JJ any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[YikesVikes]

The deal worked out for both teams. In the end, it could work out better for Minnesota, depending on who they get with the other three draft picks they got in the deal (or who they trade them for). Also, Justin Jefferson is more than 5 years younger than Diggs, and every bit as productive.

Here's the thing, though. In 2018, Diggs was targeted 149 times and had 102 receptions with 9 TDs. So it's not like he wasn't used here in Minnesota. Also, I have a hard time believing it had much to do with the quarterbacks. Remember, the 2019 version of Josh Allen, while sort of improved over his rookie year, was nowhere near the version he was in 2020. In 2019, Allen was a 58-percent passer with an 85 rating. Heck, he wasn't anywhere near Kirk Cousins' level in 2019.

Diggs wanted out for multiple reasons.

1) He wasn't getting the ball as much as he did when John DeFilippo was OC. Dude had 58 catches in the first half of 2018, then his targets took a dive in '19.
2) Adam Thielen got an extension that paid more than Diggs, which Diggs didn't like.
3) He didn't like the direction the Vikings were going offensively ... from tons of shotgun and spread formations under JDF to heavy sets and the running game under Stefanski.

If Stefon Diggs left because of Josh Allen, then he's freaking Nostradamus. I'm not sure anybody could have known that Allen would have the kind of breakout he had.

Thank you!! I’m glad someone else sees the reality of things. I’ve literally made these exact points plenty of times on this board. Stefon diggs did not leave because of cousins. He literally came out and said that he was blindsided by the team switching to a run heavy offense....but some just continue to ignore. Cousins gave him the best year of his career in 2018. And let’s be honest, whether you like cousins or not, he is an excellent pure passer. Josh Allen was a dumpster fire of a passer in 2019. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if diggs was frustrated behind closed doors that buffalo is where he went. Because they WERE a run heavy offense and had a horribly inaccurate QB.

And in regards to the other points, yes he was always overshadowed by Thielen and paid less than Thielen. Greenway came out and said he thought that’s why diggs was being a diva.

And what he did in buffalo is irrelevant to me. Literally all they did was throw and they knew they had to to please diggs. The bills could’ve went 0-16 and diggs could’ve had this exact same year statistically and I can 100% guarantee you diggs wouldnt have complained one bit.

I can just about guarantee that diggs said he wanted out via Twitter after cousins was signed to an extension BECAUSE he knew it would continue to be a run heavy offense. He knew nothing was going to change and there was no going back to flips pass happy offense. So he went from being overshadowed by Thielen to now being overshadowed by Thielen AND cook for the rest of cousins tenure. That’s not anything against cousins, it’s the philosophy. He would’ve been the 3rd wheel just like in 2019. In 2019, he was bitc*ing early on because he wasn’t getting the ball due to Thielen and cook. Thielen goes down, diggs doesn’t say boo, was all fiery on the sidelines trying to be a leader, slapping cousins on the as* acting like his best pal, acting like he’s some sort of team player. Thielen comes back and you catch diggs bitc*ing at cousins vs the saints because he wasn’t getting the ball again. The midway point of that season was an act by diggs. He wanted the organization to side to with him, believe he was a leader, believe he could be THEE guy and do it all. I’m not saying he couldn’t because obviously he could given this past year in buffalo but I don’t want a player like that on my team if it was up to me. I was all over diggs bull crap antics in 2019 and brought it up multiple times on here. He’s not a team player and he’s not a leader. He all about himself. He wants the attention. So badly that after they lose to KC he stays on the field for the trophy presentation. Why? Because he knew the cameras would be on him. Again another ACT.

I love listening to this guys podcasts. He actually did a podcast on the Packers urinal I made for Tommy Kramer. But anyways, this says it all and it’s damn near exactly what I’m saying. He talks about diggs quotes in that article this year and what he said about the Vikings and how he is entirely an ACT. Check out the link....

https://youtu.be/dhlr72cDjgA

....rant over lol. I’ll take JJ any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Until he leaves the vikes and you talk about how terrible he was.

[VikingLord]

That, more than anything, is why I'd choose Russell Wilson over Kirk Cousins at twice the price (not literally ... figure of speech). But don't be offended, Cousins fans. I'd choose Russell Wilson over all but maybe two QBs in the NFL right now, and even those would be touch choices. The guy flat-out wins. We're talking 98 regular-season wins in 9 seasons, the most by any QB in NFL history. He's added 9 playoff wins, which means he's averaged just shy of 12 total wins per season since he entered the league. I've been at this Vikings fan thing for 52 years. I'd like to see us win the trophy ONCE in my freaking lifetime.

Wilson is reportedly not happy in Seattle.

Should the Vikings trade the farm for him?

Assuming they are trading the farm then, trade it for him or for Watson?

All the stats Stump lists don't matter to the argument. I never claimed Cousins was as good as either Wilson or Watson (or probably another QB who's name starts with a 'W' for that matter as pretty much every QB seems to be better than Cousins).

My argument is, you don't need a 'W' QB to win a Superbowl. You need a good team. You need a complete team.

The following isn't directed specifically at you, but is more an observation.

In Minnesota, the coming of the Pro Football Messiah is still awaited by many fans. It's like a prophecy. We're only that *one* magical player away and then we win. Sure, Mike Lynn already tested that prophecy and found it false way back in the late '80's. Spielman tried it again with Favre (well, maybe not just Spielman, but he was involved) in 2009. Didn't work then either.

And now it's just Watson of the what, 4 win Texans? Or maybe it's Wilson. Or maybe it's someone else. But there is just that *one* guy who makes it all better, damn the state of the rest of the team. This savior overcomes obvious defensive flaws. He can make an average offensive line look awesome. Bad coaching? No sweat. Poor officiating? Not a problem for the Messiah. Key injuries late in a season? Forgeddaaboutit.

The Player Messiah will overcome all that. We just have to find him, and once we do, key up the Superbowl wins.

As it stands, the only player in the NFL who even approaches such a status, the only one I would buy the arguments being bandied about here and respect the record and the stats without much question, is Tom Brady. That doesn't mean I don't think Watson is a good and potentially great QB, or that I discount what Russell Wilson has accomplished or may still accomplish in his career. It just means that I don't buy the singular savior player argument. Teams have, can, and will win Superbowls without more than largely average QBs. The Vikings can be one of them. They can win with Kirk Cousins and probably win with someone even less talented and effective than Cousins. I just doubt that they can or will do it if they have the best QB in the league, but don't fix the team around the guy. Even Tom Brady can't overcome fundamental flaws/misfortunes.

Anyway, I seem to be in the minority on this so I'll probably leave it here. But suffice it to say, I will be less excited about next season if Spielman trades away significant draft capital to acquire either Watson or Wilson while the existing areas of need on the team languish than I will if he hits on key acquisitions in areas of need on the team and they stick with Cousins. That's just the way I see it, and I strongly suspect Spielman and Zimmer agree with my perspective more than with those who yearn for the Player Messiah.

[StumpHunter]

If Stefon Diggs left because of Josh Allen, then he's freaking Nostradamus. I'm not sure anybody could have known that Allen would have the kind of breakout he had.

Diggs left because of money. He knew there would be none for him once they extended Cousins with the extension they gave him, which is why he pushed for a trade an hour after that extension was given. Simple as that.

[StumpHunter]

Oh and better yet....you ready for this one? You wanted Lamar Jackson right? Please tell me you also think Stefon diggs would still be here? Diggs would’ve bounced following 2018 let alone 2019. You want to sit there and think that diggs left because of cousins but literally would’ve touched the ball HALF as much with Lamar Jackson. You think diggs would be cool with that? Not a single shot in hell and you know it. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if both Thielen and diggs wanted out. Baltimore’s LEADING WR had 769 yards on 58 catches this year. Their NUMBER ONE! Jackson would’ve been lucky to please our #1 in Thielen let alone our #2 in diggs. No less diggs already practically said he didn’t want to be part of a run heavy offense.

But Cousins forced diggs out right?!!! As you sit here talking about Lamar Jackson

I won't respond to most of your post because no one else wants to read us argue about something related to other threads they probably don't remember.

This part though, reminded me of a prediction I made prior to the season:

Stump, I get you wanna put your twist on things and continue to say everything is cousins fault but don’t sit there and act like you know enough about josh Allen to say so. I live in NY and they are on live TV all the time. I’m surrounded by bills mafia fans. Josh Allen is not a good QB. At his best he’s mediocre. He arguably has the worst accuracy of any QB in the nfl. On deep balls last year, he was 15 of 59 which was dead last in the nfl. But you think diggs “hates cousins” but will somehow like josh Allen? The hate you have for cousins is simply starting to completely blind you at this point

I remember you making almost this exact same argument about Jackson last year. Looks like you just ensured Allen is on his way to be the MVP.

Allen didn't win the MVP, but arguably deserved it more than Rodgers who had a great run game to lean on. When you take out Allen's rushing yards Buffalo was one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL, so any offense came from his legs and arm. You can't say that about Rodgers.

All that to say I expect Jackson, who is a significantly better QB than Cousins, to be back to MVP form in the coming season thanks to your take above.

[StumpHunter]

My argument is, you don't need a 'W' QB to win a Superbowl. You need a good team. You need a complete team.

There has never been a bad team that has won the SB, true. There has also never been a team who has won the SB with a QB of Cousins caliber when that QB was making more than 10% of the cap.

The Vikings, paying Kirk as much as they do, are trying to win it all in a way no team has ever won it all. Does that seem like a good strategy for winning the SB? Trying a strategy that not only has failed to fill the trophy case for any team in the history of the salary cap, but also has made most teams that try it mediocre to bad?

I don't think so, which is why I prefer the Vikings try a strategy that has actually been proven to work. Get a great QB like Wilson or Watson and try to win it all with them at the helm, or start over at the QB spot, paying a fraction of what Cousins costs us and actually be able to build that complete team around a bridge QB or a QB on a rookie contract. Make up for being at a disadvantage at QB with a better team you were able to build because you have 30 million more in cap to spend on other positions. Instead of just being at a disadvantage at QB and spending just as much on the position like we are with Cousins.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Thank you!! I’m glad someone else sees the reality of things. I’ve literally made these exact points plenty of times on this board. Stefon diggs did not leave because of cousins. He literally came out and said that he was blindsided by the team switching to a run heavy offense....but some just continue to ignore. Cousins gave him the best year of his career in 2018. And let’s be honest, whether you like cousins or not, he is an excellent pure passer. Josh Allen was a dumpster fire of a passer in 2019. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if diggs was frustrated behind closed doors that buffalo is where he went. Because they WERE a run heavy offense and had a horribly inaccurate QB.

And in regards to the other points, yes he was always overshadowed by Thielen and paid less than Thielen. Greenway came out and said he thought that’s why diggs was being a diva.

And what he did in buffalo is irrelevant to me. Literally all they did was throw and they knew they had to to please diggs. The bills could’ve went 0-16 and diggs could’ve had this exact same year statistically and I can 100% guarantee you diggs wouldnt have complained one bit.

I can just about guarantee that diggs said he wanted out via Twitter after cousins was signed to an extension BECAUSE he knew it would continue to be a run heavy offense. He knew nothing was going to change and there was no going back to flips pass happy offense. So he went from being overshadowed by Thielen to now being overshadowed by Thielen AND cook for the rest of cousins tenure. That’s not anything against cousins, it’s the philosophy. He would’ve been the 3rd wheel just like in 2019. In 2019, he was bitc*ing early on because he wasn’t getting the ball due to Thielen and cook. Thielen goes down, diggs doesn’t say boo, was all fiery on the sidelines trying to be a leader, slapping cousins on the as* acting like his best pal, acting like he’s some sort of team player. Thielen comes back and you catch diggs bitc*ing at cousins vs the saints because he wasn’t getting the ball again. The midway point of that season was an act by diggs. He wanted the organization to side to with him, believe he was a leader, believe he could be THEE guy and do it all. I’m not saying he couldn’t because obviously he could given this past year in buffalo but I don’t want a player like that on my team if it was up to me. I was all over diggs bull crap antics in 2019 and brought it up multiple times on here. He’s not a team player and he’s not a leader. He all about himself. He wants the attention. So badly that after they lose to KC he stays on the field for the trophy presentation. Why? Because he knew the cameras would be on him. Again another ACT.

I love listening to this guys podcasts. He actually did a podcast on the Packers urinal I made for Tommy Kramer. But anyways, this says it all and it’s damn near exactly what I’m saying. He talks about diggs quotes in that article this year and what he said about the Vikings and how he is entirely an ACT. Check out the link....

https://youtu.be/dhlr72cDjgA

....rant over lol. I’ll take JJ any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Until he leaves the vikes and you talk about how terrible he was.

ahhhh there it is. Was waiting for one of a few that were going to twist my words around. Clearly you missed this part.....

I was all over diggs bull crap antics in 2019 and brought it up multiple times on here.

FYI, in 2019 he was here and I called him out for his crap more than once then just like I am now.

And when you say "terrible", that is where the word twisting is coming in. This has nothing to do with Diggs talent first of all. Outside of me getting on him for his multiple dropped passes last year, there is no reason to say he is terrible. If you're referring to me thinking he's terrible in the sense of being selfish, not a team player, a diva, etc..... yeah I said that now just like I said it when he was still here.

I didnt start complaining about Diggs until 2019 because I had no reason to complain prior. I was getting sick of his antics on and off the field that year. Like shut up and play. But this comes down to you just reading and perceiving what you want to read and perceive. I've complained about PLENTY of players prior to them leaving the Vikings. So just because I defend certain players that you may not like, doesnt mean I just "say everyone is terrible when they leave the Vikings".

So maybe read a little closer next time or just pay closer attention to the point I'm trying to get across in general before you come on here yapping and twisting my words into something that I never said. Thanks

[Pondering Her Percy]

If Stefon Diggs left because of Josh Allen, then he's freaking Nostradamus. I'm not sure anybody could have known that Allen would have the kind of breakout he had.

Diggs left because of money. He knew there would be none for him once they extended Cousins with the extension they gave him, which is why he pushed for a trade an hour after that extension was given. Simple as that.

Wow where did you just pull that one out of?

First you say it was because of Cousins and never once mentioned money. You were implying that it was because of who Cousins is as a QB. And this has been discussed plenty of times on this board. Now all of the sudden you're pulling money out of your rear saying that was the reason?? First of all, Diggs was throwing his entire 10 year old tantrum well before Cousins even got an extension. The trade rumors started flying around and Diggs went AWOL from practice in week 5 of 2019!! WTF does that have anything to do with Kirk Cousins' extension? Cousins was extended the following offseason.

And also, why in the world would Diggs leave because of money?? He got a $72 million deal heading into 2019. He was nowhere due an extension. And if he wanted one it would be because of one reason and one reason only....because he wanted more money than Thielen. Why else would he want an extension a year or two after he just signed a contract. He's making 12-13 million a year!

I'm truly starting to believe that you are so pathetically obsessed with Cousins contract and how bad it is that you will literally pull anything out of the clouds you can to prove your point. Saying Diggs left because of the money when his antics have ZERO correlation with that, might be one of the most asinine things I've ever heard on this board.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Oh and better yet....you ready for this one? You wanted Lamar Jackson right? Please tell me you also think Stefon diggs would still be here? Diggs would’ve bounced following 2018 let alone 2019. You want to sit there and think that diggs left because of cousins but literally would’ve touched the ball HALF as much with Lamar Jackson. You think diggs would be cool with that? Not a single shot in hell and you know it. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if both Thielen and diggs wanted out. Baltimore’s LEADING WR had 769 yards on 58 catches this year. Their NUMBER ONE! Jackson would’ve been lucky to please our #1 in Thielen let alone our #2 in diggs. No less diggs already practically said he didn’t want to be part of a run heavy offense.

But Cousins forced diggs out right?!!! As you sit here talking about Lamar Jackson

I won't respond to most of your post because no one else wants to read us argue about something related to other threads they probably don't remember.

This part though, reminded me of a prediction I made prior to the season:

I remember you making almost this exact same argument about Jackson last year. Looks like you just ensured Allen is on his way to be the MVP.

Allen didn't win the MVP, but arguably deserved it more than Rodgers who had a great run game to lean on. When you take out Allen's rushing yards Buffalo was one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL, so any offense came from his legs and arm. You can't say that about Rodgers.

All that to say I expect Jackson, who is a significantly better QB than Cousins, to be back to MVP form in the coming season thanks to your take above.

Ha, talk about contradicting yourself. You say you don’t want to talk about Jackson since people wouldn’t want to read something they don’t remember (or more like because he took a step back after you obsessed over him on here so it makes you look bad) but you bring up what I said about Josh Allen and want to talk about that, which was also a year ago (because Allen was in the mvp race). That just sounds like a cop out to me.

You were the first to jump down my throat when I said Jackson wasn’t a good QB and follows it up with an mvp season. Yet now he takes a step backwards, questions are starting to arise about if he can get it done or not as a QB and what I said initially about him is coming back to fruition.... you sit here and turtle up. Weird how that works.

As for Allen, yes I indeed ripped him plenty of times and at the time....rightfully so. He was not good. I live in NY and watch plenty of bills games. I’m surrounded by bills fans. My best friend is probably the biggest bills fan I know but he’s not the typical “oh we beat the jets we’re going to the super bowl” type bills fan like 95% of their fan base is. HE himself was extremely skeptical of Allen going into last year. I use to bust on him saying you better hope they find a way to please Diggs and he said more than once “with Allen, I don’t envision that happening”. Allen was a hilariously inaccurate passer. Especially when it came to the deep ball. Not “just missing” WIDE OPEN receivers but overthrowing them by 10 yards.

You yourself were indeed one of the finger pointing offensive experts that complained any time cousins missed an open WR. Remember, in the chat? Anytime cousins would take a sack or a play would break down there was always a few experts that would hop in the game day chat (you being one) saying “(insert player name) was open, throw the ball”, when most of the time, the reality of it was that player was like the 4th read on that play and cousins was sacked by the time he hit the back of his 7 step drop. But of course those experts have nothing better to do than to blame cousins for anything and everything that goes wrong.....ya know, those type of fans. Sound familiar?

Anyways, heading into this past season Diggs future looked awfully bleak with Allen as his QB. And many thought that he’d lose his mind getting overthrown that often. Cousins is one of the most accurate passers in the league. Allen was the complete opposite. Clearly Allen got better. Just like clearly Jackson got better after his rookie year. But when teams figured him out after his MVP year, he comes back down to reality and shows his massive limitations.

But did Diggs’ situation in buffalo look promising whatsoever heading in?? No not at all. That’s like sending Diggs to the giants and all of the sudden thinking Danny Dimes is going to be in the mvp race next year. Nobody predicted that about Allen.

And if we as fans were always correct on QB analysis and talent evaluation, I can assure you we wouldn’t be on here arguing about it, we’d be employed by an nfl team as a GM....but we’re not.

But your history of guys like Lamar Jackson, Case Keenum, Teddy and Jordan love that you went to the ends of the earth to defend, aren’t looking too hot right now just to give you a heads up. Eek.

[StumpHunter]

Ha, talk about contradicting yourself. You say you don’t want to talk about Jackson since people wouldn’t want to read something they don’t remember (or more like because he took a step back after you obsessed over him on here so it makes you look bad) but you bring up what I said about Josh Allen and want to talk about that, which was also a year ago (because Allen was in the mvp race). That just sounds like a cop out to me.

No need to get so upset. You truly have a gift for finding a QB with tons of potential and claiming they suck a year before they take the league by storm. Not a lot of people can do what you do.

Kapp said it would take Diggs being Nostradamus to know Allen would have the season he did, and that, along with you slamming Jackson who is a QB clearly superior to the QB you defend constantly, reminded me of this conversation.

I wish I could take more credit for calling Allen having an MVP like year, but really it was all you and all I did was realize you being so adamant about Allen not being good was evidence he was going to have a breakout season.