WRs in Draft

[fiestavike]

I don't think they are going to be competing for a championship, so I'd be inclined to make moves primarily aimed at 2-6 years down the road.

That direction doesn't seem likely considering the situations of Spielman and Zimmer. The Vikings still have a load of talent and will be in playoff contention. Especially with the additional WC...It would make little sense to move up or draft a QB early.

Other than winning, spending a bunch of draft capital on a QB isn't a bad way to buy yourself time as the coach/gm. Since we aren't going to win this year, the cynic might see drafting a new franchise QB as perfectly suited to the situation of Spielman and Zimmer, as that seat begins to warm up.

[fiestavike]

I really think it depends on how they view the 2020 squad. I don't think they are going to be competing for a championship, so I'd be inclined to make moves primarily aimed at 2-6 years down the road. If that's the case, this is not a bad time to grab a QB. They have the draft capital to do it, they have Kirk's no trade clause out of the way, they have let a bunch of veterans walk, and they have 10 picks after their 1st rounders. They don't appear to be a team putting all their eggs in the 2020 basket. If they are, they are having a very poor offseason. If they are all in on Kirk, that's fine, though I'd be making some very different moves if that were the case. My attempt to square what seem to be contradictory moves is to assume that they are actually looking a couple years down the road rather than focusing on 2020, and that they don't want to telegraph that to the fan base, which would be bad for business.

The extension for Cousins could be considered a safety net for if they can't find a viable replacement in the draft. It is only 2 years, and could be traded if a team like SF is desperate enough. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that if the next Mahomes falls to them in the draft, the Vikings draft him, sit him for a year while he acclimates to the NFL, and then trade Cousins for a 2nd prior to his contract becoming fully guaranteed.

It seems a move that would be most likely IF they like Jordan Love who might be there at 22. I am not crazy about him, his footwork, or his interceptions, but I just don't see Herbert, Burrow or Tua making it past pick #6, so its probably a moot point.

Still, on the draft trade chart, the Vikings could move up to 7th with 22 and 25. Adding their 2nd could get them to 4th.

Given how out of character the dealing with Harris has been for this franchise, it almost seems believable to me that part of the reason they wanted to franchise/trade him, is because they are desperate for draft capital, and perhaps getting the capital to move up and get someone they are targeting this year.

I admit its all unlikely to happen, but I think there is a good case for doing it.

[VikingsVictorious]

I like the way you are thinking here.

I know I'm in the minority, but I still think, along those lines, its possible they trade up to get Tua or Herbert, particularly if one happens to make it past 6. To me, it would fit in well with the potential plan to rebuild without totally tanking, being able to shed tons of salary next year, and being able to re-sign a new nucleus of young players to longterm deals over the next 3-4 years, rather than scraping to retain what they can only to remain moderately competitive until they aren't able to do so any longer. Then they'll be forced into a major rebuild and are much more likely to be looking for new jobs, or retiring to Kentucky ranches sooner rather than later.

I haven't been impressed with Jordan Love, but that's another possibility as I think he'll be there 22.

Now i don't like the way you are thinking. I think the chances of this happening are about as close to 0 as can be. Love is not the kind of QB we value either. If he falls to our pick we will trade out of it.

[fiestavike]

I know I'm in the minority, but I still think, along those lines, its possible they trade up to get Tua or Herbert, particularly if one happens to make it past 6. To me, it would fit in well with the potential plan to rebuild without totally tanking, being able to shed tons of salary next year, and being able to re-sign a new nucleus of young players to longterm deals over the next 3-4 years, rather than scraping to retain what they can only to remain moderately competitive until they aren't able to do so any longer. Then they'll be forced into a major rebuild and are much more likely to be looking for new jobs, or retiring to Kentucky ranches sooner rather than later.

I haven't been impressed with Jordan Love, but that's another possibility as I think he'll be there 22.

Now i don't like the way you are thinking. I think the chances of this happening are about as close to 0 as can be. Love is not the kind of QB we value either. If he falls to our pick we will trade out of it.

As I said, I'm happily in the minority, and I'd only give it about a 10 percent chance of happening, but I think it makes sense, especially if they can get a potential franchise QB at 7 or later--that is, without giving up anything past pick 25.

I don't like Love either, but the Kubiak system makes it as easy as possible to play QB, and his athleticism could be a plus in this system. Maybe THEY like him.

[PacificNorseWest]

I haven't heard too many mention Michael Pittnan Jr. yet, so sorry if I missed it, but I think he absolutely should be on Minnesota radar for an early round. 2nd or 3rd. He was a beast at USC. They were loaded at WR, so his numbers probably would be better anywhere else, as USC had a top 3 receiver corp in the nation. He's probably what Treadwell should have been.

[J. Kapp 11]

That direction doesn't seem likely considering the situations of Spielman and Zimmer. The Vikings still have a load of talent and will be in playoff contention. Especially with the additional WC...It would make little sense to move up or draft a QB early.

Other than winning, spending a bunch of draft capital on a QB isn't a bad way to buy yourself time as the coach/gm. Since we aren't going to win this year, the cynic might see drafting a new franchise QB as perfectly suited to the situation of Spielman and Zimmer, as that seat begins to warm up.

Do you honestly think Zimmer and Spielman think we’re not going to win this year?

Come on. YOU may think that. I may think that. But that’s not their plan.

[VikingsVictorious]

I haven't heard too many mention Michael Pittnan Jr. yet, so sorry if I missed it, but I think he absolutely should be on Minnesota radar for an early round. 2nd or 3rd. He was a beast at USC. They were loaded at WR, so his numbers probably would be better anywhere else, as USC had a top 3 receiver corp in the nation. He's probably what Treadwell should have been.

Pittman is an OK choice for 58 a steal for 89.

[Texas Vike]

I haven't heard too many mention Michael Pittnan Jr. yet, so sorry if I missed it, but I think he absolutely should be on Minnesota radar for an early round. 2nd or 3rd. He was a beast at USC. They were loaded at WR, so his numbers probably would be better anywhere else, as USC had a top 3 receiver corp in the nation. He's probably what Treadwell should have been.

I like Pitmann quite a lot for 2nd or 3rd round. I think he'd be a stellar WR opposite Thielen.

[fiestavike]

Other than winning, spending a bunch of draft capital on a QB isn't a bad way to buy yourself time as the coach/gm. Since we aren't going to win this year, the cynic might see drafting a new franchise QB as perfectly suited to the situation of Spielman and Zimmer, as that seat begins to warm up.

Do you honestly think Zimmer and Spielman think we’re not going to win this year?

Come on. YOU may think that. I may think that. But that’s not their plan.

How about this? Do you think there are GMs going into the 2020 season that don't believe they have a realistic expectation to win a superbowl this year?

If so, that means at least some GMs are planning for the future more than they are committed to winning it all right now. If you can acknowledge that about other teams GMs (and I think we all can), I'm not sure why it would be crazy to acknowledge it as a possible approach of our GM.

[J. Kapp 11]

Do you honestly think Zimmer and Spielman think we’re not going to win this year?

Come on. YOU may think that. I may think that. But that’s not their plan.

How about this? Do you think there are GMs going into the 2020 season that don't believe they have a realistic expectation to win a superbowl this year?

If so, that means at least some GMs are planning for the future more than they are committed to winning it all right now. If you can acknowledge that about other teams GMs (and I think we all can), I'm not sure why it would be crazy to acknowledge it as a possible approach of our GM.

I’m not talking about other GMs. I’m talking about Rick Spielman. And no, I don’t believe he’s given up on the season, as so many of you are assuming.

What have we actually lost? Diggs. That’s a hit. Beyond that, what? Rhodes? Wow, big loss, a corner who gave up an 80% completion rate. Waynes? Most of you didn’t want him. Griffen? He’s good, but not what he was. Not to mention he could actually return. Joseph? Pierce is a younger version and just as good. Josh Kline? Please.

We also have 13 draft picks ... 5 in the top 105.

There is absolutely no way that Spielman and Zimmer see this as a rebuilding year. They’ve given no indication of such.

[Pondering Her Percy]

How about this? Do you think there are GMs going into the 2020 season that don't believe they have a realistic expectation to win a superbowl this year?

If so, that means at least some GMs are planning for the future more than they are committed to winning it all right now. If you can acknowledge that about other teams GMs (and I think we all can), I'm not sure why it would be crazy to acknowledge it as a possible approach of our GM.

I’m not talking about other GMs. I’m talking about Rick Spielman. And no, I don’t believe he’s given up on the season, as so many of you are assuming.

What have we actually lost? Diggs. That’s a hit. Beyond that, what? Rhodes? Wow, big loss, a corner who gave up an 80% completion rate. Waynes? Most of you didn’t want him. Griffen? He’s good, but not what he was. Not to mention he could actually return. Joseph? Pierce is a younger version and just as good. Josh Kline? Please.

We also have 13 draft picks ... 5 in the top 105.

There is absolutely no way that Spielman and Zimmer see this as a rebuilding year. They’ve given no indication of such.

Good post and I agree. Not sure why anyone would think that Spielman thinks we have no shot this year. This team still has plenty of talent and will just add more through the draft. No need to act like the sky is falling.

[fiestavike]

How about this? Do you think there are GMs going into the 2020 season that don't believe they have a realistic expectation to win a superbowl this year?

If so, that means at least some GMs are planning for the future more than they are committed to winning it all right now. If you can acknowledge that about other teams GMs (and I think we all can), I'm not sure why it would be crazy to acknowledge it as a possible approach of our GM.

I’m not talking about other GMs. I’m talking about Rick Spielman. And no, I don’t believe he’s given up on the season, as so many of you are assuming.

What have we actually lost? Diggs. That’s a hit. Beyond that, what? Rhodes? Wow, big loss, a corner who gave up an 80% completion rate. Waynes? Most of you didn’t want him. Griffen? He’s good, but not what he was. Not to mention he could actually return. Joseph? Pierce is a younger version and just as good. Josh Kline? Please.

We also have 13 draft picks ... 5 in the top 105.

There is absolutely no way that Spielman and Zimmer see this as a rebuilding year. They’ve given no indication of such.

Here's how I look at it. Did we have a realistic expectation to win the Superbowl last year? I think its pretty clear the answer was no. We got man handled against physically superior teams all year, even inferior teams who were physical beat up on the Vikings...see Chicago. I would hope that if they believed they were contenders last year, they have been dispossessed of such notions heading into a year where they will have less talent than they did before. If the goal is to remain relevant, they are in position to do that. Maybe they get a winning record. They are not contenders, and if they don't know it, it doesn't bode well for this franchise.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I’m not talking about other GMs. I’m talking about Rick Spielman. And no, I don’t believe he’s given up on the season, as so many of you are assuming.

What have we actually lost? Diggs. That’s a hit. Beyond that, what? Rhodes? Wow, big loss, a corner who gave up an 80% completion rate. Waynes? Most of you didn’t want him. Griffen? He’s good, but not what he was. Not to mention he could actually return. Joseph? Pierce is a younger version and just as good. Josh Kline? Please.

We also have 13 draft picks ... 5 in the top 105.

There is absolutely no way that Spielman and Zimmer see this as a rebuilding year. They’ve given no indication of such.

Here's how I look at it. Did we have a realistic expectation to win the Superbowl last year? I think its pretty clear the answer was no. We got man handled against physically superior teams all year, even inferior teams who were physical beat up on the Vikings...see Chicago. I would hope that if they believed they were contenders last year, they have been dispossessed of such notions heading into a year where they will have less talent than they did before. If the goal is to remain relevant, they are in position to do that. Maybe they get a winning record. They are not contenders, and if they don't know it, it doesn't bode well for this franchise.

We went 10-6, probably 11-5 if starters played week 17. We then go and beat an nfc favorite on the road. They were far from some pushover team and could run with just about anyone.

And I don’t buy the, “this team has less talent this year” argument.

First, how do you even know what our talent pool will look like given the draft isn’t even here yet and we have 12 picks to use. Also, we will still sign some more free agents. Possibly guys like Griffen and Kirkpatrick.

Second, most of the “talent” we lost needed to be re-tooled regardless. Did you see how shaky that secondary was last year? Rhodes was one of the worst corners in the league. Waynes, Alexander and Hughes all had their moments. That position took the biggest “hit” this offseason but it NEEDED to.

Then you have DT, linval was starting to fade, 3 tech is still a mystery. This all had to be addressed. We replaced linval already with a better option.

DE, we lost weatherly, who cares. And it sounds like griff could be coming back. It’s going to be a wait and see

Safety- we lost sendejo, who cares

OL, not a whole lot has changed but you’re obviously going to see it addressed in the draft. If anything, it should improve unless we drastically miss on picks.

WR- we lost diggs. Yeah obviously a huge hit but signing sharpe and taking an early draft pick could be better than we think. This could be the toughest “talent” to replace.

The rest of the “talent” we actually lost to another team was all average to below average talent. You’re acting like we lost a bunch of superstars. Outside of diggs and griffen, there were no superstars. And griff is still a possibility.

I swear sometimes fans look at our mid-offseason roster, pre-draft and pretty much say yeah we suck. Like idk how you can say we won’t be a contender when you have no idea who else we will sign in free agency, what trades we pull off or most importantly, who we will draft. NFL teams are so far from complete right now. But you’re talking like it’s a fact we can’t contend this year. You don’t know that nor does anyone else. And I can guarantee spielman and Zim aren’t going into the year saying yeah we blow nor do they have negative mindsets like that. Let’s let them do their job come draft day, see who we sign post draft and assess from there

[VikingLord]

OL, not a whole lot has changed but you’re obviously going to see it addressed in the draft. If anything, it should improve unless we drastically miss on picks.

I have to comment on this.

With all of the focus on drafting a WR early and a CB early (not saying you are proposing that, just that I see a lot of that in pre-draft mocks and other comments), where does fixing those gaping holes on the OL place as a priority?

The way I see it, the Vikings have two gaping holes at both guard positions and a liability at the left tackle position. That means 3 out of 5 OL spots could use an upgrade.

There are some young guys on the team who could ostensibly step up and meet those needs. It could happen, and if it does, that would be fantastic. But even if that does happen I don't think Spielman can draft in this upcoming draft making any assumptions about that. Unless he has strong indications otherwise, he almost has to go into this year's entire offseason including this draft assuming the answers at those positions aren't on the team and he has to acquire them.

So where in the big scheme of things do those OL fixes come into play? Free agency is probably not going to help much. To get a real answer, like a Trent Williams to replace Reiff, will cost Spielman some draft capital. How much would that be and is he willing to part with it? Any other free agent guard, for example, is probably at best a stopgap that wouldn't likely be an improvement over what the Vikings had at those positions last year.

Improvement then has to come via the draft, so where in the draft is Spielman going to prioritize those positions compared to his other needs, and if he does prioritize them, is he going to reach for players at those spots rather than go after better players who might be on the board when the Vikings are on the clock?

In most of the simulated mocks I've done, I find myself focusing on OL/DL early. I'm taking obvious offensive or defensive skill position players early if obvious steals fall to me, but for the most part I can't help but take appropriate OL/DL players in the first 3 rounds of most of the drafts I've run knowing how shaky both units were for most of last year. Yes, adding Pierce helps the interior DL, but the Vikings still need someone effective beside and behind him. Getting Griffen back might help at RDE, but Griffen wasn't great against the run last year and I don't see why he'd be any better against it this year if they do get him back. Even adding Pierce and even getting Griffen back the Vikes still need 2 DL in this draft. 2 DL who have a legit chance of starting sooner than later and who can become effective if not great players. Those guys aren't going to come later in the draft.

I'm actually not worried about WR at all. Losing Diggs was addition by subtraction IMHO. Kubiak can simply shuffle things around and make better use of his TEs, of which the Vikings are rich. Plus, it's such a deep WR class that I'm banking on effective and maybe even really great prospects still being on the board as late as the 6th and 7th rounds.

As far as CB goes, this is such a flat CB class that in my view the chances of getting a good one (or two) is roughly the same in the 4th-5th rounds as going after one in the 1st or 2nd rounds. The guys who go earlier are going to tick the physical boxes (e.g. fast 40 times at the combine, height, weight, etc.), but there will be guys who don't tick those boxes who still put some skills on tape in their college careers and who will be sitting waiting to hear their names called after the workout warriors are off the board. Those are the players I'd like to see Spielman targeting later in this draft.

But back to your original comment, what I'm trying to say is that I don't see the same depth or possibility to address the OL/DL concerns later in this draft. While the WR/DB pools are deep and relatively flat, the same can't be said about the OL/DL pools. The players in those position groups with real potential to get on the field next season and be stars in future seasons are going to be gone in the first 3 rounds this year. One or two might slip into the later rounds but finding those will be pure luck. The guys who are more educated guesses are going to demand higher picks.

I will be very interested to see if Spielman sees it the way I do and his choices in this draft reflect that.

[VikingsVictorious]

OL, not a whole lot has changed but you’re obviously going to see it addressed in the draft. If anything, it should improve unless we drastically miss on picks.

I have to comment on this.

With all of the focus on drafting a WR early and a CB early (not saying you are proposing that, just that I see a lot of that in pre-draft mocks and other comments), where does fixing those gaping holes on the OL place as a priority?

The way I see it, the Vikings have two gaping holes at both guard positions and a liability at the left tackle position. That means 3 out of 5 OL spots could use an upgrade.

There are some young guys on the team who could ostensibly step up and meet those needs. It could happen, and if it does, that would be fantastic. But even if that does happen I don't think Spielman can draft in this upcoming draft making any assumptions about that. Unless he has strong indications otherwise, he almost has to go into this year's entire offseason including this draft assuming the answers at those positions aren't on the team and he has to acquire them.

So where in the big scheme of things do those OL fixes come into play? Free agency is probably not going to help much. To get a real answer, like a Trent Williams to replace Reiff, will cost Spielman some draft capital. How much would that be and is he willing to part with it? Any other free agent guard, for example, is probably at best a stopgap that wouldn't likely be an improvement over what the Vikings had at those positions last year.

Improvement then has to come via the draft, so where in the draft is Spielman going to prioritize those positions compared to his other needs, and if he does prioritize them, is he going to reach for players at those spots rather than go after better players who might be on the board when the Vikings are on the clock?

In most of the simulated mocks I've done, I find myself focusing on OL/DL early. I'm taking obvious offensive or defensive skill position players early if obvious steals fall to me, but for the most part I can't help but take appropriate OL/DL players in the first 3 rounds of most of the drafts I've run knowing how shaky both units were for most of last year. Yes, adding Pierce helps the interior DL, but the Vikings still need someone effective beside and behind him. Getting Griffen back might help at RDE, but Griffen wasn't great against the run last year and I don't see why he'd be any better against it this year if they do get him back. Even adding Pierce and even getting Griffen back the Vikes still need 2 DL in this draft. 2 DL who have a legit chance of starting sooner than later and who can become effective if not great players. Those guys aren't going to come later in the draft.

I'm actually not worried about WR at all. Losing Diggs was addition by subtraction IMHO. Kubiak can simply shuffle things around and make better use of his TEs, of which the Vikings are rich. Plus, it's such a deep WR class that I'm banking on effective and maybe even really great prospects still being on the board as late as the 6th and 7th rounds.

As far as CB goes, this is such a flat CB class that in my view the chances of getting a good one (or two) is roughly the same in the 4th-5th rounds as going after one in the 1st or 2nd rounds. The guys who go earlier are going to tick the physical boxes (e.g. fast 40 times at the combine, height, weight, etc.), but there will be guys who don't tick those boxes who still put some skills on tape in their college careers and who will be sitting waiting to hear their names called after the workout warriors are off the board. Those are the players I'd like to see Spielman targeting later in this draft.

But back to your original comment, what I'm trying to say is that I don't see the same depth or possibility to address the OL/DL concerns later in this draft. While the WR/DB pools are deep and relatively flat, the same can't be said about the OL/DL pools. The players in those position groups with real potential to get on the field next season and be stars in future seasons are going to be gone in the first 3 rounds this year. One or two might slip into the later rounds but finding those will be pure luck. The guys who are more educated guesses are going to demand higher picks.

I will be very interested to see if Spielman sees it the way I do and his choices in this draft reflect that.

Reiff is only costing us 8.8 million for this year and that is a bargain for a solid LT. I'm seeing us draft one OG to start early in the draft. Most likely one of our 1st three picks. Then we want to groom somebody to take over for Reiff next year when he costs us a lot more. Hopefully both of those can be covered by the same player and that player is hopefully Tristan Wirfs.