Xavier Rhodes should be benched....NOW!!!

[Purplepain2018]

I understand the way a lot of coaches think especially a player that has the contract and price tag that CB Xavier Rhodes has. It was just a couple of years ago where Rhodes was listed in the class of being a "shutdown corner." Well, like I said that was a couple of years ago and his play over the last two years has steadily gotten worse. He is constantly getting beat on almost every route and by almost every wide receiver, except Julio Jones. Only to make matters worse, he is also getting flagged for penalties that at times keeps drives alive. In my opinion, Rhodes has become a huge liability.

Now is the time to make the switch with one of the younger corners like either Mike Hughes or Holton Hill. At this point, they give the Vikings the best chance to win.

[VikingLord]

Hughes was getting beat plenty last Sunday IIRC. Hill hasn't impressed since he returned from his suspension for violating league policy.

While Rhodes has struggled to make the plays this year, so has Waynes and the other CBs. I can't think of one who has been really impressive. The safeties have been better overall.

As far as replacing players in the 12th game of a 16 game season, I can't think of a coach that would do that without a really good reason. I could see a coach shuffling playing time, or altering the coverage schemes if he thought one of his DBs needed help in a particular situation or against a particular opponent, but outright benching I can't see. Further, I don't think Rhodes has been all that bad. I posted about this after the Detroit game where Rhodes gave up some scores and based on reviewing those plays, from what I could see Rhodes had coverage in nearly every case, but he never looked for the ball. The best I could tell, it almost looked like Rhodes decided that all he had to do was stay close enough to his man and the QB wouldn't throw at him. It appears opposing OCs saw that and decided to roll the dice and lately, they've been getting away with it. I'm not seeing Rhodes getting outright beaten often, though. For the most part, he covers well, certainly well enough that, if he does look for the ball, he's in a position to make plays on it.

[4mnvikings82]

Hughes was getting beat plenty last Sunday IIRC. Hill hasn't impressed since he returned from his suspension for violating league policy.

While Rhodes has struggled to make the plays this year, so has Waynes and the other CBs. I can't think of one who has been really impressive. The safeties have been better overall.

As far as replacing players in the 12th game of a 16 game season, I can't think of a coach that would do that without a really good reason. I could see a coach shuffling playing time, or altering the coverage schemes if he thought one of his DBs needed help in a particular situation or against a particular opponent, but outright benching I can't see. Further, I don't think Rhodes has been all that bad. I posted about this after the Detroit game where Rhodes gave up some scores and based on reviewing those plays, from what I could see Rhodes had coverage in nearly every case, but he never looked for the ball. The best I could tell, it almost looked like Rhodes decided that all he had to do was stay close enough to his man and the QB wouldn't throw at him. It appears opposing OCs saw that and decided to roll the dice and lately, they've been getting away with it. I'm not seeing Rhodes getting outright beaten often, though. For the most part, he covers well, certainly well enough that, if he does look for the ball, he's in a position to make plays on it.

Sorry but in my book if the receiver you're defending consistently catches the ball you're getting beat. Close only counts in hand grenades

[CharVike]

The key point replace him with who. The worst part now is teams are going after him. He's the target from the word go. I would think Zim will put some effort into changing things up per the scheme. He must be pissed. Someone posted he mentioned the pass D in his press conference. Zim not happy isn't a good thing for these guys. That's Zim's pride and joy. I can understand Hughes having trouble. Hill might not be the same without the drugs he was doing. Perhaps that's why he was not drafted. I don't think benching Rhodes is the answer for this year. But Zim needs to figure out how to get these guys playing better. We have a good team. We have a QB who is doing a great job. Right now he's near the top. Teams are afraid of us. The only thing standing in our way is us. That don't mean we should win every game. But no team will blow us out. We will be in every game. I was pissed with the Hawk game but some pointed out the fact that it might have helped us. It showed we could come back. That may be true and I didn't look at it that way. My stupid stuff was this joke QB passed at will on us. Yes he did but we still manage a win. That's hard to do.

[StumpHunter]

The key point replace him with who. The worst part now is teams are going after him. He's the target from the word go. I would think Zim will put some effort into changing things up per the scheme. He must be pissed. Someone posted he mentioned the pass D in his press conference. Zim not happy isn't a good thing for these guys. That's Zim's pride and joy. I can understand Hughes having trouble. Hill might not be the same without the drugs he was doing. Perhaps that's why he was not drafted. I don't think benching Rhodes is the answer for this year. But Zim needs to figure out how to get these guys playing better. We have a good team. We have a QB who is doing a great job. Right now he's near the top. Teams are afraid of us. The only thing standing in our way is us. That don't mean we should win every game. But no team will blow us out. We will be in every game. I was pissed with the Hawk game but some pointed out the fact that it might have helped us. It showed we could come back. That may be true and I didn't look at it that way. My stupid stuff was this joke QB passed at will on us. Yes he did but we still manage a win. That's hard to do.

Statistically you could not be more wrong about Rhodes being "targeted from the word go". Waynes is targeted significantly more than Rhodes, gives up more yards and more TDs. In fact, Waynes was targeted more than Rhodes on Sunday, although the Broncos had more success throwing Rhodes way for the first time this season.

It WAS Rhodes worst game of the season and the first time any team has thrown for more than 100 yards against him in a very long time. He had two 40+ yarders against him, one where he was in great coverage and Sutton made a fantastic catch, and a second where he was not in great coverage but was expecting help from Kearse over the top. Kearse had bit on play action, and was no where to be found. He also had a terrible PI that was a very questionable call. His guy fell over, but it did not look like Rhodes made illegal contact.

Rhodes may be giving up way too much for what he is paid, but he is far from the biggest concern in the secondary. I expect a significant pay cut this offseason and for him to stick around, because the other options are much worse than him.

[StumpHunter]

I understand the way a lot of coaches think especially a player that has the contract and price tag that CB Xavier Rhodes has. It was just a couple of years ago where Rhodes was listed in the class of being a "shutdown corner." Well, like I said that was a couple of years ago and his play over the last two years has steadily gotten worse. He is constantly getting beat on almost every route and by almost every wide receiver, except Julio Jones. Only to make matters worse, he is also getting flagged for penalties that at times keeps drives alive. In my opinion, Rhodes has become a huge liability.

Now is the time to make the switch with one of the younger corners like either Mike Hughes or Holton Hill. At this point, they give the Vikings the best chance to win.

We don't know what we have in Hill, we do know what we have in Hughes. A guy who has been burnt every time he sees the field. Much, much worse than either Waynes or Rhodes.

[J. Kapp 11]

Rhodes is still almost always in position. He's not done as well this year at locating the ball, but he's in position.

There's another factor. The refs have really clamped down on how much they'll let you use your hands. Rhodes is a long, strong cornerback who has historically been good at jamming receivers at the line. The refs aren't letting him do that, and he's having to play more like a zone corner, which has never been his strength. I think it's accurate to say he's not adjusting very well.

As for targets, he actually gets very few. Against Dallas, when Prescott threw for 397 yards, Rhodes was targeted only 5 times. Meanwhile, Mike Hughes was targeted 17.

The point has been well-made here ... who's going to replace Rhodes? You can't bench Xavier Rhodes. Not at this point.

[Dames]

I came here to say a lot of stuff against the post... but you guys said everything already. Really deflated me. Thanks for nothing.

[J. Kapp 11]

I came here to say a lot of stuff against the post... but you guys said everything already. Really deflated me. Thanks for nothing.

We're here for ya, man!

[CharVike]

The key point replace him with who. The worst part now is teams are going after him. He's the target from the word go. I would think Zim will put some effort into changing things up per the scheme. He must be pissed. Someone posted he mentioned the pass D in his press conference. Zim not happy isn't a good thing for these guys. That's Zim's pride and joy. I can understand Hughes having trouble. Hill might not be the same without the drugs he was doing. Perhaps that's why he was not drafted. I don't think benching Rhodes is the answer for this year. But Zim needs to figure out how to get these guys playing better. We have a good team. We have a QB who is doing a great job. Right now he's near the top. Teams are afraid of us. The only thing standing in our way is us. That don't mean we should win every game. But no team will blow us out. We will be in every game. I was pissed with the Hawk game but some pointed out the fact that it might have helped us. It showed we could come back. That may be true and I didn't look at it that way. My stupid stuff was this joke QB passed at will on us. Yes he did but we still manage a win. That's hard to do.

Statistically you could not be more wrong about Rhodes being "targeted from the word go". Waynes is targeted significantly more than Rhodes, gives up more yards and more TDs. In fact, Waynes was targeted more than Rhodes on Sunday, although the Broncos had more success throwing Rhodes way for the first time this season.

It WAS Rhodes worst game of the season and the first time any team has thrown for more than 100 yards against him in a very long time. He had two 40+ yarders against him, one where he was in great coverage and Sutton made a fantastic catch, and a second where he was not in great coverage but was expecting help from Kearse over the top. Kearse had bit on play action, and was no where to be found. He also had a terrible PI that was a very questionable call. His guy fell over, but it did not look like Rhodes made illegal contact.

Rhodes may be giving up way too much for what he is paid, but he is far from the biggest concern in the secondary. I expect a significant pay cut this offseason and for him to stick around, because the other options are much worse than him.

Ok they wait until late in the 4th quarter. I was wrong then. I'll pay better attention next game.

[VikingLord]

Sorry but in my book if the receiver you're defending consistently catches the ball you're getting beat. Close only counts in hand grenades

The gist of what I'm trying to say is the issue with Rhodes is more about his technique (or lack thereof) in tracking the ball rather than in his positioning.

To use your saying, a DB who isn't close can't break up the pass. A DB who has tight coverage can, assuming he has some ball awareness (and maybe better situational awareness as well as to when a pass is coming his way).

Rhodes is typically close enough to make a play on the ball. He just has to improve his awareness and then make the play, which is something he can do. I think he just got used to QB's avoiding him due to his tight coverage and got mentally lazy as a result. With it becoming clear to everyone that QB's will no longer avoid him just because he has tight coverage, he has the opportunity to not only start breaking up passes, but getting some picks as well. He should view it as an opportunity ala how Kirk Cousins viewed the challenges leveled against him after the loss against the Bears and step up to the challenge.

Rhodes could turn into a pick machine over the last 5 games of the season if he is able to get it figured out, as could Waynes. IMHO, both are seeing lots of passes thrown at them that really shouldn't be thrown, but opposing QBs are getting away with it because neither is looking for the ball.

[StumpHunter]

Sorry but in my book if the receiver you're defending consistently catches the ball you're getting beat. Close only counts in hand grenades

The gist of what I'm trying to say is the issue with Rhodes is more about his technique (or lack thereof) in tracking the ball rather than in his positioning.

To use your saying, a DB who isn't close can't break up the pass. A DB who has tight coverage can, assuming he has some ball awareness (and maybe better situational awareness as well as to when a pass is coming his way).

Rhodes is typically close enough to make a ball on the ball. He just has to improve his awareness and then make the play, which is something he can do. I think he just got used to QB's avoiding him due to his tight coverage and got mentally lazy as a result. With it becoming clear to everyone that QB's will no longer avoid him just because he has tight coverage, he has the opportunity to not only start breaking up passes, but getting some picks as well. He should view it as an opportunity ala how Kirk Cousins viewed the challenges leveled against him after the loss against the Bears and step up to the challenge.

Rhodes could turn into a pick machine over the last 5 games of the season if he is able to get it figured out, as could Waynes. IMHO, both are seeing lots of passes thrown at them that really shouldn't be thrown, but opposing QBs are getting away with it because neither is looking for the ball.

The weird thing is, Rhodes is 12th in the NFL in pass breakups at 7 despite not being targeted a ton (20th least targeted CB in the NFL). So he is breaking up passes at a very good rate compared to other CBs, but he is still giving up a high percentage of completions.

Some of that is the number of shorter passes he is asked to defend and those being high percentage passes in their own right. Some of it is just "bad luck" and the QB he is facing being more accurate when throwing at his guy. And yes, some of it is bad technique by Rhodes.

[VikingLord]

The weird thing is, Rhodes is 12th in the NFL in pass breakups at 7 despite not being targeted a ton (20th least targeted CB in the NFL). So he is breaking up passes at a very good rate compared to other CBs, but he is still giving up a high percentage of completions.

I suspect if his targets by game were tracked, we'd see an uptick starting around the Lions game.

He's also given up some high profile throws in situations where I think he was rarely targeted before, and those tend to be over-weighted in the minds of fans who aren't used to seeing Rhodes giving up a lot of big plays or TDs. I know I have been surprised several times this year, expecting to see Waynes or Alexander in coverage and instead it's Rhodes. I used to only expect to hear Rhodes' name called if a flag was thrown, usually for defensive holding, but now he's showing up on the bad guy's highlights.

But he's almost never outright beat, so he's got to start making some plays on the ball, as do all of the non-safety DBs on the field.

With the way the Vikings have played up front, if the CB's can start making some plays on the ball this defense will be shutdown.

[StumpHunter]

The weird thing is, Rhodes is 12th in the NFL in pass breakups at 7 despite not being targeted a ton (20th least targeted CB in the NFL). So he is breaking up passes at a very good rate compared to other CBs, but he is still giving up a high percentage of completions.

I suspect if his targets by game were tracked, we'd see an uptick starting around the Lions game.

He's also given up some high profile throws in situations where I think he was rarely targeted before, and those tend to be over-weighted in the minds of fans who aren't used to seeing Rhodes giving up a lot of big plays or TDs. I know I have been surprised several times this year, expecting to see Waynes or Alexander in coverage and instead it's Rhodes. I used to only expect to hear Rhodes' name called if a flag was thrown, usually for defensive holding, but now he's showing up on the bad guy's highlights.

But he's almost never outright beat, so he's got to start making some plays on the ball, as do all of the non-safety DBs on the field.

With the way the Vikings have played up front, if the CB's can start making some plays on the ball this defense will be shutdown.

Player profiler does track them. His targets went down after the Lions game, because on film, Rhodes actually had tight coverage in that game. Stafford was just on and made perfect throws into that tight coverage. Coaches and QBs not biased by how much Rhodes makes, saw that coverage on film and decided to throw elsewhere. Like you said, he had not been getting outright beat while guys like Waynes and Hughes were, so why not take the easier pass and throw at those guys?

I expect his targets to go up for sure after this past game though. There were a couple of tight coverage completions against him, but there were also a couple of wide open completions against him.

[VikingLord]

Player profiler does track them. His targets went down after the Lions game, because on film, Rhodes actually had tight coverage in that game. Stafford was just on and made perfect throws into that tight coverage. Coaches and QBs not biased by how much Rhodes makes, saw that coverage on film and decided to throw elsewhere. Like you said, he had not been getting outright beat while guys like Waynes and Hughes were, so why not take the easier pass and throw at those guys?

I expect his targets to go up for sure after this past game though. There were a couple of tight coverage completions against him, but there were also a couple of wide open completions against him.

Fascinating stuff. Yeah, based on what I saw on the two TDs he allowed against the Lions, he had tight coverage. If he was aware of where the ball was he could have made plays on it on both of those completions, but he just wasn't looking.

You're right about the other DBs, though. Throwing at Rhodes when he's not looking is still probably riskier than throwing at Waynes or Hughes even when they are looking, and I expect that to continue. Hughes in particular has had pretty soft coverage IMHO. Waynes coverage is better, but he struggles to make plays on the ball.

Would be nice to see the entire secondary play up to their talent level.