Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:56 am
In my opinion, I think after Theilen came out and uncharacteristically spoke out to the media, and Diggs did his thing, it was as someone else brought up a blessing in disguise. And I believe it was a 2 fold blessing.
I truly believe the criticism wasn't all leveled at Cousins, I believe it was also intended for Zim.
Think about it . Zim had it in his head I Wanna Run the ball, and Run the ball and then Run some more. I think he was basically handcuffing Stefanski AND Cousins, and trying to fit them into the box he wanted then in, in the process not letting then Outside that box and letting them do what they need to do.
Stefanski looks alot more comfortable and is able to call a much better game.
And Cousins.. man what a difference. I see a guy who regardless of what he says, did see the criticism, got pissed off... has his head coach maybe finally laying off of him and giving him more freedom to play to his strengths and has a Coordinator who is finally able to call plays that also use Kirk's strengths.
This all translates to a talented QB who FINALLY is feeling more comfortable and is feeling VERY confident and it is translating into some great play... and winning!!
I like .. no I LOVE this Kirk. Hes finally just out there playing ball, and playing damn well.
If our D gets back to playing the way they should be, well, with Cousins playing this way and that stud Cook doing his thing . We can be really good.
I love THIS Kirk, as well.
I checked again this morning. Cousins DOES, in fact, lead the league in QBR at 114.3. Russell Wilson finally threw his first pick yesterday, which dropped him behind Kirk. Here's another amazing stat. Patrick Mahomes averages 9.0 yards per attempt. Cousins ... 9.1. Who'da thunk?
With Cousins right now, we're seeing a quarterback who's simply not missing throws. He's finding the open man and putting the ball right on the money. Bowhunter, you bring up a good point with Stefanski. Cousins said in his postgame presser yesterday that every time the play came into his headset, he thought, "Great call. Love that play here." When your quarterback is confident in himself, the team around him, AND the plays that are coming in, it's a recipe for success.
It's hard to imagine how big a game Cousins might have had yesterday if Diggs hadn't dropped that TD pass.
Now we've just got to focus, focus, focus for a bad Washington team. We have to remember the Buffalo debacle from last year and not let it happen again. Gonna be a little weird ... Adrian Peterson and Case Keenum coming back to Minnesota on the same team. But sentimentality gets put aside once they get between the lines. No mercy.
Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:56 am
In my opinion, I think after Theilen came out and uncharacteristically spoke out to the media, and Diggs did his thing, it was as someone else brought up a blessing in disguise. And I believe it was a 2 fold blessing.
I truly believe the criticism wasn't all leveled at Cousins, I believe it was also intended for Zim.
Think about it . Zim had it in his head I Wanna Run the ball, and Run the ball and then Run some more. I think he was basically handcuffing Stefanski AND Cousins, and trying to fit them into the box he wanted then in, in the process not letting then Outside that box and letting them do what they need to do.
Stefanski looks alot more comfortable and is able to call a much better game.
And Cousins.. man what a difference. I see a guy who regardless of what he says, did see the criticism, got pissed off... has his head coach maybe finally laying off of him and giving him more freedom to play to his strengths and has a Coordinator who is finally able to call plays that also use Kirk's strengths.
This all translates to a talented QB who FINALLY is feeling more comfortable and is feeling VERY confident and it is translating into some great play... and winning!!
I like .. no I LOVE this Kirk. Hes finally just out there playing ball, and playing damn well.
If our D gets back to playing the way they should be, well, with Cousins playing this way and that stud Cook doing his thing . We can be really good.
I love THIS Kirk, as well.
I checked again this morning. Cousins DOES, in fact, lead the league in QBR at 114.3. Russell Wilson finally threw his first pick yesterday, which dropped him behind Kirk. Here's another amazing stat. Patrick Mahomes averages 9.0 yards per attempt. Cousins ... 9.1. Who'da thunk?
With Cousins right now, we're seeing a quarterback who's simply not missing throws. He's finding the open man and putting the ball right on the money. Bowhunter, you bring up a good point with Stefanski. Cousins said in his postgame presser yesterday that every time the play came into his headset, he thought, "Great call. Love that play here." When your quarterback is confident in himself, the team around him, AND the plays that are coming in, it's a recipe for success.
It's hard to imagine how big a game Cousins might have had yesterday if Diggs hadn't dropped that TD pass.
Now we've just got to focus, focus, focus for a bad Washington team. We have to remember the Buffalo debacle from last year and not let it happen again. Gonna be a little weird ... Adrian Peterson and Case Keenum coming back to Minnesota on the same team. But sentimentality gets put aside once they get between the lines. No mercy.
It is almost like he has played 3 bottom 5 pass defenses in a row with how bad the defenses have looked against him.
Confidence can be a really good thing, and our offense should have a ton of it right now. I don't see them laying an egg against the Skins.
I dont post very often but i just have a couple general questions for the board.
Did anyone notice Treadwell on the field at all yesterday?
We haven't seen many passes to the backs (but a lot more pitches), i am wondering if this is a wrinkle they may be saving for later in the season? thoughts?
I look forward to reading through this thread when i get a chance, its been a fun few weeks.
Great game overall but why is Rhodes terrible now?
When Hill comes back, if he looks as good as he did last year, we might want to look at trading Rhodes away before he loses all of his trade value by playing terribly.
Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:56 am
In my opinion, I think after Theilen came out and uncharacteristically spoke out to the media, and Diggs did his thing, it was as someone else brought up a blessing in disguise. And I believe it was a 2 fold blessing.
I truly believe the criticism wasn't all leveled at Cousins, I believe it was also intended for Zim.
Think about it . Zim had it in his head I Wanna Run the ball, and Run the ball and then Run some more. I think he was basically handcuffing Stefanski AND Cousins, and trying to fit them into the box he wanted then in, in the process not letting then Outside that box and letting them do what they need to do.
Stefanski looks alot more comfortable and is able to call a much better game.
And Cousins.. man what a difference. I see a guy who regardless of what he says, did see the criticism, got pissed off... has his head coach maybe finally laying off of him and giving him more freedom to play to his strengths and has a Coordinator who is finally able to call plays that also use Kirk's strengths.
This all translates to a talented QB who FINALLY is feeling more comfortable and is feeling VERY confident and it is translating into some great play... and winning!!
I like .. no I LOVE this Kirk. Hes finally just out there playing ball, and playing damn well.
If our D gets back to playing the way they should be, well, with Cousins playing this way and that stud Cook doing his thing . We can be really good.
Good post man, and yeah I was the one that mentioned it was a blessing in disguise. I believe it was not only intended for Zim but the OCs as well. It makes me wonder though, if it WASNT for Zim, would Stefanski and Kubiak have had this playbook wide open from the start like we do now? Or would they still run all game and give little attention to the pass? I think Zim was a HUGE part in the "no pass approach". And someone on here mentioned that the worst thing that could have happened to this offense early on was dominating Atlanta and having to only throw 10 times. It made us wayyy to reliant on the run. Either waym, these guys have it figured out right now. The constant play action, the roll outs, etc.
I also wonder, yes this OL is playing much better, but are a lot of the roll outs designed because those plays call for deeper routes and they are trying to give Cousins time to see the field vs. taking it from under center and standing behind a poor pass blocking OL?? I feel like on a lot of the roll outs Kirk has had, many of them are when he's taken the deep shots. If so, that's great thinking on the OCs part.
During weeks 1-4, I was complaining about these things:
-Lack of balance in the offense
-Being too conservative
-Overuse of the run
-Lack of targets to Thielen and Diggs
-Being under center too much and going into a 7 step drop
-The OL's pass blocking
Since then, they have fixed all of these things. They are still under center a lot but they are now adding in more roll outs to get Cousins out into open space. I'd like to think Zim, Stefanski and Kubiak logged onto VMB and listened to my complaining and fixed this offense
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:48 am
It is almost like he has played 3 bottom 5 pass defenses in a row with how bad the defenses have looked against him.
Confidence can be a really good thing, and our offense should have a ton of it right now. I don't see them laying an egg against the Skins.
Funny....
If that's what it takes for Cousins to get healthy mentally, then that's what it takes.
Grashopa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:33 am
I dont post very often but i just have a couple general questions for the board.
Did anyone notice Treadwell on the field at all yesterday?
We haven't seen many passes to the backs (but a lot more pitches), i am wondering if this is a wrinkle they may be saving for later in the season? thoughts?
I look forward to reading through this thread when i get a chance, its been a fun few weeks.
Treadwell was on the field, but no attempts thrown his way.
One of the TDs was to Ham. Hard to say if the Vikes are saving screens for later in the season. My guess is it depends on the defense they're playing more than anything, but it's an interesting observation. Seems like the Vikes could have some success with that. There has also been a dearth of attempts to the TEs before yesterday. That was Rudolph's first TD catch of the season and it wasn't even thrown into the endzone, so hard to say if the offensive design is "saving" that element for later or it just hasn't been necessary or if Cousins just feels other options are better. Irv Smith has been the most active TE in the passing game and has made some nice plays. Still hoping to see Stefanski try to dial him in over the top. He's got the speed and athleticism to do it and did it a lot for a TE in college. With Diggs probably due to get a little extra attention from the safety in upcoming games, there might be some opportunities to get Smith deep if he's covered by an LB.
TSonn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:38 am
Great game overall but why is Rhodes terrible now?
When Hill comes back, if he looks as good as he did last year, we might want to look at trading Rhodes away before he loses all of his trade value by playing terribly.
He isn't terrible. He gave up two short TD passes while he was in pretty good coverage. He also had a PI called on him that is not called most of the time.
Waynes was significantly worse yesterday and Hughes got beat more as well.
- Offensive playcalling was good in this game. The play that I loved was the late play action deep pass to Diggs that he probably should have scored on, but kind of ran out of gas. I was thinking Zimmer might be content to just run the clock on that last scoring drive. Force the Lions to burn their timeouts, punt it deep and make the Lions drive the field and score a TD. That's what the classic book calls for in that situation, and what I've seen the Vikings do so many times in the past. Stefanski went for the jugular instead. So nice to see from the Vikings.
- Dalvin Cook quietly had another huge day. I thought the Lions were playing the run really well, especially early, and then when all was said-and-done Cook clocks in with 142 yards rushing. He kept moving, stayed on his feet, and made some things out of literally nothing. Further, the Vikings stuck with the run, and it paid off.
- I thought between the designed roll outs, the effective play action, and just some nice overall pass blocking, the Vikings kept Cousins really clean in the pocket. This is the 3rd straight game it's been that way, too, and to his credit, Cousins has been standing in and staying patient and not forcing things. Yes, as Stump pointed out earlier in the thread, these have been bottom feeder pass defenses the last three weeks, and that could have a lot to do with the results we've been seeing, but it's difficult to completely discount them or discount Cousins. The Vikings have had a history of being the team that helped other teams get healthy with their weaknesses, but these last three games the Vikings have thoroughly exploited and amplified those weaknesses of their opponents. As with the playcalls, this is VERY nice to see. They deserve credit for it, but more importantly, I think they're gaining a lot of confidence from it.
- The scoring... These last three games, the Vikings offense has been scoring and driving very successfully. I mean, punts seem rare now. 3-and-outs are rare. Whereas last year, I felt surprised to see a sustained drive end in a TD, this year I'm beginning to be more surprised at a drive that ends quickly or fails to score a TD. Yes, the defenses have been poor, relatively speaking. But still, 2 road games are 2 road games. They piled up points in both. Better defenses await, but it appears the team is picking up a lot of confidence. And, as an added bonus, they are scoring with big plays, but also can score passing and running on short fields in the red zone too. They aren't a one-trick pony.
Now, for some not-so-good things.
- I really hope Thielen isn't seriously injured. That was one of the more amazing catches I've seen. Both the throw and the catch. Pure magic. But the Vikings need AT. Diggs is great, and the team should have other weapons in the passing game if AT can't go as Bisi is showing, but AT is really a special player, and they're going to need him against the better pass defenses coming up on the schedule.
- For as good as Diggs can be, he has shown a penchant for making some real poor plays as well. He fumbled again against the Lions yesterday, and then he dropped what was a really nice ball that should have been a TD. He's a great player and can make some plays, but man, if you're going to call out your QB, or anyone else, for that matter, you'd better make sure you've got your own sh*t locked down. Diggs' misfires haven't cost the team, yet, but there will likely be a game coming where a missed opportunity does cost them.
- Vikings weren't great on defense yesterday. Well, I have to temper that statement. They were amazing at moments and made some really nice plays against the run and the pass. They got some pressure on Stafford as well. But there were other moments, especially against the pass, where they were just off. Rhodes got cooked for two short TDs. What's worse, he had decent position. He just didn't know where the ball was and couldn't make a play as a result. Ditto for Waynes. That first TD Waynes gave up was just poor technique on the tackle. Hughes gave up a bad score by allowing the WR to get inside position. A lot of what happened to the secondary yesterday was technique. They often had good position. Stafford had to take some risks to get those balls in and, had the Vikings played technique well, the results would have been much different. But the technique was sloppy and the Lions scored a lot as a result. Yeah, sometimes that happens, and the Lions deserve credit for making the plays, but it's hard to watch those Lion TDs and not think that the Vikings could have, and probably should have, been able to defend every one of them.
- OK, the Vikings aren't asking a lot from Dan Bailey and the field goal unit this year so far. I know he's spending a lot of time cooling his heels on the sideline. But when they do trot him out there, he's got to be a little better than yesterday. In my opinion, no professional kicker should be missing a standard field goal by the country mile he missed his one attempt yesterday. That miss, coming on the heels of Diggs letting a sure TD drop through his hands, was a 7 point swing. If it's a long attempt, I get it. If it's outdoors in poor conditions, I get it. If its high pressure, maybe, maybe I get it. But in that situation, I don't get it. Bailey has to be ready to go. It almost seemed like he wasn't.
Great game by the Vikings other than the negatives mentioned above. The Lions may not be a great team, but they were at home, should have beaten the Packers the prior game, and needed the win. They got up first on the Vikings and forced the Vikings to respond. Further, they put up 30 points on the Vikings, so the offense had to perform. The Vikings overcame them nonetheless and did it on the merits. No BS penalties saved them. No freak plays. In the end, they got it done on both sides of the ball, and notched a tough divisional win. The next 3 div games are all at home, so their fate should be in their own hands.
And on that note, I am SO looking forward to the rematches with the Bears and Packers in Minnesota...
TSonn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:38 am
Great game overall but why is Rhodes terrible now?
When Hill comes back, if he looks as good as he did last year, we might want to look at trading Rhodes away before he loses all of his trade value by playing terribly.
He isn't terrible. He gave up two short TD passes while he was in pretty good coverage. He also had a PI called on him that is not called most of the time.
Waynes was significantly worse yesterday and Hughes got beat more as well.
I wouldnt say Rhodes is terrible but Rhodes also isnt who he was a few years ago. And many, along with myself, are tired watching the whining and limping off the field every time he gets beat.
He's not himself right now that's for sure. If he gives up a big play or a TD he does one of two things, limps around and acts like he hurt something or throws a tantrum and slams his helmet like he did yesterday. So far this year and last year, I think Waynes has been our best CB. He was a little shaky yesterday but for the most part he's been pretty solid and is an elite run defender.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:03 am
I love THIS Kirk, as well.
I checked again this morning. Cousins DOES, in fact, lead the league in QBR at 114.3. Russell Wilson finally threw his first pick yesterday, which dropped him behind Kirk. Here's another amazing stat. Patrick Mahomes averages 9.0 yards per attempt. Cousins ... 9.1. Who'da thunk?
With Cousins right now, we're seeing a quarterback who's simply not missing throws. He's finding the open man and putting the ball right on the money. Bowhunter, you bring up a good point with Stefanski. Cousins said in his postgame presser yesterday that every time the play came into his headset, he thought, "Great call. Love that play here." When your quarterback is confident in himself, the team around him, AND the plays that are coming in, it's a recipe for success.
It's hard to imagine how big a game Cousins might have had yesterday if Diggs hadn't dropped that TD pass.
Now we've just got to focus, focus, focus for a bad Washington team. We have to remember the Buffalo debacle from last year and not let it happen again. Gonna be a little weird ... Adrian Peterson and Case Keenum coming back to Minnesota on the same team. But sentimentality gets put aside once they get between the lines. No mercy.
It is almost like he has played 3 bottom 5 pass defenses in a row with how bad the defenses have looked against him.
Confidence can be a really good thing, and our offense should have a ton of it right now. I don't see them laying an egg against the Skins.
It's almost like you're negative about 3 straight wins, but ... oh wait, you are.
He isn't terrible. He gave up two short TD passes while he was in pretty good coverage. He also had a PI called on him that is not called most of the time.
Waynes was significantly worse yesterday and Hughes got beat more as well.
I wouldnt say Rhodes is terrible but Rhodes also isnt who he was a few years ago. And many, along with myself, are tired watching the whining and limping off the field every time he gets beat.
He's not himself right now that's for sure. If he gives up a big play or a TD he does one of two things, limps around and acts like he hurt something or throws a tantrum and slams his helmet like he did yesterday. So far this year and last year, I think Waynes has been our best CB. He was a little shaky yesterday but for the most part he's been pretty solid and is an elite run defender.
None of our CBs are bad, but Waynes has given up the most yards and TDs in the secondary.
I think Rhodes has a big magnifying glass on his play because of how much he makes, as he should have. Every pass given up is a complete failure on his part, while we kind of give Waynes a pass. He is paid top 5 CB money and while he is only being outperformed by one other CB who is being paid top 5 money, he is not really earning his pay check.
Our secondary would be significantly worse without him, but the money being spent on him could be better used elsewhere.
Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:56 am
In my opinion, I think after Theilen came out and uncharacteristically spoke out to the media, and Diggs did his thing, it was as someone else brought up a blessing in disguise. And I believe it was a 2 fold blessing.
I truly believe the criticism wasn't all leveled at Cousins, I believe it was also intended for Zim.
Think about it . Zim had it in his head I Wanna Run the ball, and Run the ball and then Run some more. I think he was basically handcuffing Stefanski AND Cousins, and trying to fit them into the box he wanted then in, in the process not letting then Outside that box and letting them do what they need to do.
Stefanski looks alot more comfortable and is able to call a much better game.
And Cousins.. man what a difference. I see a guy who regardless of what he says, did see the criticism, got pissed off... has his head coach maybe finally laying off of him and giving him more freedom to play to his strengths and has a Coordinator who is finally able to call plays that also use Kirk's strengths.
This all translates to a talented QB who FINALLY is feeling more comfortable and is feeling VERY confident and it is translating into some great play... and winning!!
I like .. no I LOVE this Kirk. Hes finally just out there playing ball, and playing damn well.
If our D gets back to playing the way they should be, well, with Cousins playing this way and that stud Cook doing his thing . We can be really good.
Good post man, and yeah I was the one that mentioned it was a blessing in disguise. I believe it was not only intended for Zim but the OCs as well. It makes me wonder though, if it WASNT for Zim, would Stefanski and Kubiak have had this playbook wide open from the start like we do now? Or would they still run all game and give little attention to the pass? I think Zim was a HUGE part in the "no pass approach". And someone on here mentioned that the worst thing that could have happened to this offense early on was dominating Atlanta and having to only throw 10 times. It made us wayyy to reliant on the run. Either waym, these guys have it figured out right now. The constant play action, the roll outs, etc.
I also wonder, yes this OL is playing much better, but are a lot of the roll outs designed because those plays call for deeper routes and they are trying to give Cousins time to see the field vs. taking it from under center and standing behind a poor pass blocking OL?? I feel like on a lot of the roll outs Kirk has had, many of them are when he's taken the deep shots. If so, that's great thinking on the OCs part.
During weeks 1-4, I was complaining about these things:
-Lack of balance in the offense
-Being too conservative
-Overuse of the run
-Lack of targets to Thielen and Diggs
-Being under center too much and going into a 7 step drop
-The OL's pass blocking
Since then, they have fixed all of these things. They are still under center a lot but they are now adding in more roll outs to get Cousins out into open space. I'd like to think Zim, Stefanski and Kubiak logged onto VMB and listened to my complaining and fixed this offense
Dude ... I love ya, but you gotta cool the self-congratulations. I know you're kidding (I think) but a lot of us have been saying the same things.
Success on play-action and roll-outs aren't all Cousins' doing, and they're not necessarily meant to cover up any deficiencies on the part of Cousins. They're a staple of zone blocking. People associate zone blocking with the running game, but zone blocking is a great match for the passing game when it's done well. If the O-line does its job selling the outside zone, it's very difficult for the defense to know that it's NOT a running play. Our O-line is doing a great job of selling the run, and that's a testament to coaching. It's all technique. People have busted on Rick Dennison since he was hired, but I've been saying from the beginning that Kubiak's system and Dennison's O-line coaching will play well with this O-line and with Kirk Cousins' ability to sell play-action. It took a few weeks to get it working, but now that it is, we're seeing the results.
When Cousins was in Washington, he was always good at throwing outside the pocket by design. Where he's not good, typically, is when he's throwing outside the pocket because he's scrambling. Look at these roll-left, throw-right passes he's making. It's like they're shot out of a jugs machine ... with zip, and right on the money. He's not good at making magic when the play breaks down like Rodgers or Wilson, but he's just as good throwing on the move when it's designed. Last year, as you and others have correctly pointed out, it was all 7-step drops and the O-line trying to hold up. When Cousins left the pocket, it was not good. This year, the zone blocking and roll-outs off play-action give him just as deep a drop as a 7-step drop, but without a bunch of guys in his face. It's perfect for our personnel -- and the team did a great job of going after an athletic center in the draft and signing a zone-familiar guard in Josh Kline.
It also just so happens that zone blocking is a perfect match for Dalvin Cook, who can wait, pick his hole, plant his foot, and go. But it also gives him an opportunity to use his speed and reverse field when the play isn't there on the side the play was designed for. He must have done that 3 or 4 times yesterday for nice gains.
Kubiak's track record is clear -- he has ALWAYS put great offenses on the field, no matter where he's been. He and Dennison are coaching up the techniques really well, and Kevin Stefanski is really growing as a play-caller as he gets more and more familiar with the system. We've averaged 36 a game the past 3 weeks. It's no coincidence. You guys can talk "bottom-feeders" all you want, but this offense is doing what we all have wished it would do. And they did it yesterday without Adam Thielen for most of the game.
Was a really fun game to watch from the offensive side of things. Kirk was great and continued to do well even after one of his main weapons went down. Dalvin continues to be incredible. I worry about them carrying the momentum over to tougher defenses but they're dominating the teams they should be and what else can you ask for?
I think the problem with the secondary in this game was the refs. Not that the refs were against the Vikings or anything but that the refs weren't letting the CBs get physical. The Vikings secondary are coached to play physical football and if they have to play "hands off" so to speak they look pretty bad. To be fair, I think it's tough for any defensive back to keep good coverage if they can't get physical at all. The amount of points Detroit gave up is reflective of the officiating as well, I think.
