Lions Pre Game Discussion

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think that most of the league thinks that what the Philly LB said last week is true...that Cousins is the weakest link on the Viking offense. And along with that thinking, they will come into games with more of the defensive philosophy of stopping the run first and putting the offensive game in the hands of Cousins. Cousins is going to need several more weeks of performing like he did the last two weeks, and against some some better defenses that can bring pressure, before that philosophy changes. So I guess the outcome boils down to which Stafford AND which Cousins shows up.

I think the OL of ours is the weakest link and yes the LB was right Cousins is a weak link. He needs to be replaced. You said it much better than me. Neither of these QBs can be trusted to perform well. It's a coin toss. IMO every QB struggles when the pressure is too much. That's why I would try and hit Stafford right from the start. Send 6. He'll fold. I'm sure the Lions will do the same to Cousins. The Eagles can't apply pressure. The Giants can't either. Can the Lions? I'm not looking it up but probably not.

I wouldnt entirely write off Cousins just yet. I've said before, he's only played one season for us. Either all of you are QB experts and think we have zero possible shot with him or you have no idea what you are talking about. There was a lot of pressure last week. Philly was a winning team. Philly is a good team. Philly beat the Packers in GB. We just whooped Philly's as# and Kirk Cousins was a huge part of that. Lets let the season play out before we say "he needs to be replaced" because he didnt win us a SB in year 1. Lot of season to go and plenty of teams to beat. This guy can win with the right balance and game plan. Case Keenum won with the right balance and game plan. And Case Keenum isnt a good QB. Cousins NEVER had a running game in Washington. He never had a defense in Washington. He didnt have a run game last year because Flip ignored it. He's always been shoehorned into carrying an offense. The last two games we have seen a GIANT shift in game planning and balance. Let's see if it continues. If it does, we are going to win a lot of games and I dont care who we are playing.

[StumpHunter]

I think the OL of ours is the weakest link and yes the LB was right Cousins is a weak link. He needs to be replaced. You said it much better than me. Neither of these QBs can be trusted to perform well. It's a coin toss. IMO every QB struggles when the pressure is too much. That's why I would try and hit Stafford right from the start. Send 6. He'll fold. I'm sure the Lions will do the same to Cousins. The Eagles can't apply pressure. The Giants can't either. Can the Lions? I'm not looking it up but probably not.

I wouldnt entirely write off Cousins just yet. I've said before, he's only played one season for us. Either all of you are QB experts and think we have zero possible shot with him or you have no idea what you are talking about. There was a lot of pressure last week. Philly was a winning team. Philly is a good team. Philly beat the Packers in GB. We just whooped Philly's as# and Kirk Cousins was a huge part of that. Lets let the season play out before we say "he needs to be replaced" because he didnt win us a SB in year 1. Lot of season to go and plenty of teams to beat. This guy can win with the right balance and game plan. Case Keenum won with the right balance and game plan. And Case Keenum isnt a good QB. Cousins NEVER had a running game in Washington. He never had a defense in Washington. He didnt have a run game last year because Flip ignored it. He's always been shoehorned into carrying an offense. The last two games we have seen a GIANT shift in game planning and balance. Let's see if it continues. If it does, we are going to win a lot of games and I dont care who we are playing.

At some point can we stop making excuses and just let his play speak for itself?

[The negotiator]

I think that most of the league thinks that what the Philly LB said last week is true...that Cousins is the weakest link on the Viking offense. And along with that thinking, they will come into games with more of the defensive philosophy of stopping the run first and putting the offensive game in the hands of Cousins. Cousins is going to need several more weeks of performing like he did the last two weeks, and against some some better defenses that can bring pressure, before that philosophy changes. So I guess the outcome boils down to which Stafford AND which Cousins shows up.

I think the OL of ours is the weakest link and yes the LB was right Cousins is a weak link. He needs to be replaced. You said it much better than me. Neither of these QBs can be trusted to perform well. It's a coin toss. IMO every QB struggles when the pressure is too much. That's why I would try and hit Stafford right from the start. Send 6. He'll fold. I'm sure the Lions will do the same to Cousins. The Eagles can't apply pressure. The Giants can't either. Can the Lions? I'm not looking it up but probably not.

Cousins a weak link! If a balanced attack over the last couple of weeks didn’t convince you of Cousins ability when given the playbook and protection, I can’t help you. I’ve watched or been at over 100 of his games since MSU and he has never been the weakest link nor thought of as the weakest link. Did he have a bad game here or there.....sure, who hasn’t. But, I’ve seen him stand in that pocket and get run over before the rule changes and take the hit. He’s never lacked for courage and not once has ever thrown anyone under the bus, even when they deserve it. He is a warrior, wants to win more than anyone in that field. You want to take a sample size (small) and be an expert on KC, go ahead. But, I know a thing or two cause I’ve seen a thing or two, or 100. This kid represents the Vikings organization and Minnesota in a way that should make everyone proud. I understand the high expectations, deservedly so, but give the guy a chance. I’m done and I rest my case.

[808vikingsfan]

These past two games hasn't changed my opinion of Cousins. I don't know why it would change anyone else's. He's shown he can pass the ball well. When conditions are perfect for him and he's comfortable, he's the guy. These last two games? Eagles were ranked almost last in pass defense. Receivers were wide open, sometimes two at a time. I wouldn't call what he faced in NY a valid D either. Confidence goes a long way, but I think there's just something missing upstairs in Cousins. It'll take me the rest of the season and a gutsy playoff performance to make me think he's changed mentally. A solid, zero turnover performance in DET is a good start.

What is encouraging is this Vikings team is a good team. I wasn't ready to blow up the team after the CHI loss like others on the board. Cousins just needs to play a little above average and I think this team can at least make it to the playoffs. But to make it deep, the Vikings either need a diff QB or, Cousins needs to change and develop into something that he's never been, clutch. But after 5+ years,he is what he is, a good passer, but not a good QB. Prove me wrong Cousins.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I wouldnt entirely write off Cousins just yet. I've said before, he's only played one season for us. Either all of you are QB experts and think we have zero possible shot with him or you have no idea what you are talking about. There was a lot of pressure last week. Philly was a winning team. Philly is a good team. Philly beat the Packers in GB. We just whooped Philly's as# and Kirk Cousins was a huge part of that. Lets let the season play out before we say "he needs to be replaced" because he didnt win us a SB in year 1. Lot of season to go and plenty of teams to beat. This guy can win with the right balance and game plan. Case Keenum won with the right balance and game plan. And Case Keenum isnt a good QB. Cousins NEVER had a running game in Washington. He never had a defense in Washington. He didnt have a run game last year because Flip ignored it. He's always been shoehorned into carrying an offense. The last two games we have seen a GIANT shift in game planning and balance. Let's see if it continues. If it does, we are going to win a lot of games and I dont care who we are playing.

At some point can we stop making excuses and just let his play speak for itself?

So let me guess, the Philly game doesn’t count now since they don’t have a good pass D? Regardless the same goes the other way and how you’ve made excuses for the defense and OL. I’ve always said, it’s a team game. It drives me insane that guys find ways to say “it wasn’t a great win” just because. He’s playing well right now. Enjoy it. Be happy for the team. Instead of looking for ways cousins wasn’t impressive.

[Bowhunting Viking]

At some point can we stop making excuses and just let his play speak for itself?

Ok Stump just wondering something. Serious question, not being a dick here or trying to bait you into anything. Legitimate question here.
It's well documented here the many back n forths you have had with many hear about your feeling about Cousins. I have seen you labeled as a Cousins hater etc, and some feel no matter what he does you will come back with criticism about him.
So, what if he does continue to keep playing like he has? What if he suddenly finally makes that transition to a truly elite QB , and becomes a franchise QB that he is being played to be.
What if he would lead us to a QB win?
If ... and that's a big IF.. but if so, would you change your tune a little and give the guy some credit that would be due? Or is it truly an issue you have with him.
Like I said it's an honest question.
I admit there a some present t and past players that I cant stand. No matter how good they are, I just cant stand them for whatever reason. But I will admit they do play well and stop there.
Just wondering , as many here probably do, if your mind is made up regardless of what he does or if your opinion can be changed with productivity by him?
I come in peace lol. Just inquiring minds wanna know

[CharVike]

I think the OL of ours is the weakest link and yes the LB was right Cousins is a weak link. He needs to be replaced. You said it much better than me. Neither of these QBs can be trusted to perform well. It's a coin toss. IMO every QB struggles when the pressure is too much. That's why I would try and hit Stafford right from the start. Send 6. He'll fold. I'm sure the Lions will do the same to Cousins. The Eagles can't apply pressure. The Giants can't either. Can the Lions? I'm not looking it up but probably not.

I wouldnt entirely write off Cousins just yet. I've said before, he's only played one season for us. Either all of you are QB experts and think we have zero possible shot with him or you have no idea what you are talking about. There was a lot of pressure last week. Philly was a winning team. Philly is a good team. Philly beat the Packers in GB. We just whooped Philly's as# and Kirk Cousins was a huge part of that. Lets let the season play out before we say "he needs to be replaced" because he didnt win us a SB in year 1. Lot of season to go and plenty of teams to beat. This guy can win with the right balance and game plan. Case Keenum won with the right balance and game plan. And Case Keenum isnt a good QB. Cousins NEVER had a running game in Washington. He never had a defense in Washington. He didnt have a run game last year because Flip ignored it. He's always been shoehorned into carrying an offense. The last two games we have seen a GIANT shift in game planning and balance. Let's see if it continues. If it does, we are going to win a lot of games and I dont care who we are playing.

Non of us are QB experts. John Elway is and I watched this guy Flacco play for his team last night and how can an expert go into the season with that? Cousins fumbles but Flacco put the ball on the ground at an alarming rate plus his accuracy was bad. Maybe that was one bad game because I think he won a Super Bowl so he's a winner. I thought Cousins played a great game against the Rams last year and already posted that. But he didn't win. That's a trend that many have pointed out. Not many star QBs become FA. The Skins let him walk for a reason. Yes Brees became a FA but he had a bad shoulder injury and the Charges had a young guy in the hole. Yes the Skins had journeyman A Smith. Big deal. I would hope Speilman doesn't ignore the QB position in the draft but he did last year for some reason. I wanted Drew Lock this year but our team didn't. He'll probably be a bum but he has the skills I like including a great arm. We need a young guy in the hole. Is that so hard? We should drill this Lions team. But I wouldn't bet my last dime on it either. I still feel our OL is the weakest link. Not our QB.

[StumpHunter]

At some point can we stop making excuses and just let his play speak for itself?

So let me guess, the Philly game doesn’t count now since they don’t have a good pass D? Regardless the same goes the other way and how you’ve made excuses for the defense and OL. I’ve always said, it’s a team game. It drives me insane that guys find ways to say “it wasn’t a great win” just because. He’s playing well right now. Enjoy it. Be happy for the team. Instead of looking for ways cousins wasn’t impressive.

Have you read me post that the Philly game didn't count or make excuses for why Cousins did well in that game? He played as well as I have seen him play, made life easy for his offensive line getting rid of the ball quickly, and hitting his receivers when they were open downfield.

When the QB plays well, the team wins. When he doesn't, there is a good chance we will lose. No more excuses for a guy who is in his 8th season playing on one of the most talented teams in the NFL.

[StumpHunter]

At some point can we stop making excuses and just let his play speak for itself?

Ok Stump just wondering something. Serious question, not being a dick here or trying to bait you into anything. Legitimate question here.
It's well documented here the many back n forths you have had with many hear about your feeling about Cousins. I have seen you labeled as a Cousins hater etc, and some feel no matter what he does you will come back with criticism about him.
So, what if he does continue to keep playing like he has? What if he suddenly finally makes that transition to a truly elite QB , and becomes a franchise QB that he is being played to be.
What if he would lead us to a QB win?
If ... and that's a big IF.. but if so, would you change your tune a little and give the guy some credit that would be due? Or is it truly an issue you have with him.
Like I said it's an honest question.
I admit there a some present t and past players that I cant stand. No matter how good they are, I just cant stand them for whatever reason. But I will admit they do play well and stop there.
Just wondering , as many here probably do, if your mind is made up regardless of what he does or if your opinion can be changed with productivity by him?
I come in peace lol. Just inquiring minds wanna know

It is funny, because I had not posted one negative thing about the QB in this thread, and my response to PHP was just me being fed up with all the excuses for a QB who has done nothing to earn excuses. Even after a win, excuses.

To answer your question, if Cousins wins a Super Bowl this season, my first priority for the Vikings in the off season would be to extend him past 2020. I could also see scenarios where he plays lights out and falls short in the playoffs where I am also okay with an extension.

I don't hate him. I hate the excuses people make for him whenever he plays bad. I hate that he was given a contract that will only be justified if he wins it all. I hate the excuses for the contract. I hate that people tear down the rest of the team and the coaches in their efforts make Cousins look better.

He wins it all and all that stuff goes away.

So like I said, no more excuses. It is time to let his play speak for itself.

[Svt40]

At some point can we stop making excuses and just let his play speak for itself?

Enjoy it. Be happy for the team. Instead of looking for ways cousins wasn’t impressive.

Is that even possible for a Vikings fan??

[Bowhunting Viking]

Ok Stump just wondering something. Serious question, not being a dick here or trying to bait you into anything. Legitimate question here.
It's well documented here the many back n forths you have had with many hear about your feeling about Cousins. I have seen you labeled as a Cousins hater etc, and some feel no matter what he does you will come back with criticism about him.
So, what if he does continue to keep playing like he has? What if he suddenly finally makes that transition to a truly elite QB , and becomes a franchise QB that he is being played to be.
What if he would lead us to a QB win?
If ... and that's a big IF.. but if so, would you change your tune a little and give the guy some credit that would be due? Or is it truly an issue you have with him.
Like I said it's an honest question.
I admit there a some present t and past players that I cant stand. No matter how good they are, I just cant stand them for whatever reason. But I will admit they do play well and stop there.
Just wondering , as many here probably do, if your mind is made up regardless of what he does or if your opinion can be changed with productivity by him?
I come in peace lol. Just inquiring minds wanna know

It is funny, because I had not posted one negative thing about the QB in this thread, and my response to PHP was just me being fed up with all the excuses for a QB who has done nothing to earn excuses. Even after a win, excuses.

To answer your question, if Cousins wins a Super Bowl this season, my first priority for the Vikings in the off season would be to extend him past 2020. I could also see scenarios where he plays lights out and falls short in the playoffs where I am also okay with an extension.

I don't hate him. I hate the excuses people make for him whenever he plays bad. I hate that he was given a contract that will only be justified if he wins it all. I hate the excuses for the contract. I hate that people tear down the rest of the team and the coaches in their efforts make Cousins look better.

He wins it all and all that stuff goes away.

So like I said, no more excuses. It is time to let his play speak for itself.

Cool answer bud. Like I said I truly wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything, just an honest question for an honest assessment and you gave it to me. Excellent reply man. We all want that Super Bowl banner hanging from the rafters at the Bank.
Thanks man.

[Dames]

These past two games hasn't changed my opinion of Cousins. I don't know why it would change anyone else's. He's shown he can pass the ball well. When conditions are perfect for him and he's comfortable, he's the guy. These last two games? Eagles were ranked almost last in pass defense. Receivers were wide open, sometimes two at a time. I wouldn't call what he faced in NY a valid D either. Confidence goes a long way, but I think there's just something missing upstairs in Cousins. It'll take me the rest of the season and a gutsy playoff performance to make me think he's changed mentally. A solid, zero turnover performance in DET is a good start.

What is encouraging is this Vikings team is a good team. I wasn't ready to blow up the team after the CHI loss like others on the board. Cousins just needs to play a little above average and I think this team can at least make it to the playoffs. But to make it deep, the Vikings either need a diff QB or, Cousins needs to change and develop into something that he's never been, clutch. But after 5+ years,he is what he is, a good passer, but not a good QB. Prove me wrong Cousins.

This is pretty close to where I'm at with Cousins. These last 2 games have been awesome performances by Cousins, not just above average. I definitely enjoyed them. But, I still need to see this against teams where things aren't going quite right, or the pash rush is greater, or the D is much better. I really want to believe that he flipped the switch mentally, but we won't know that until we see some adversity. Again, the game against Philly was not a surprise to me. Philly has a really bad secondary. I stated that before the game was played. So, yes, I'm really happy he took advantage of that, but I need to see it a lot more.

I'm not ready to write him off. He has the talent. And honestly, we have no better option. Not even close.

[Pondering Her Percy]

So let me guess, the Philly game doesn’t count now since they don’t have a good pass D? Regardless the same goes the other way and how you’ve made excuses for the defense and OL. I’ve always said, it’s a team game. It drives me insane that guys find ways to say “it wasn’t a great win” just because. He’s playing well right now. Enjoy it. Be happy for the team. Instead of looking for ways cousins wasn’t impressive.

Have you read me post that the Philly game didn't count or make excuses for why Cousins did well in that game? He played as well as I have seen him play, made life easy for his offensive line getting rid of the ball quickly, and hitting his receivers when they were open downfield.

When the QB plays well, the team wins. When he doesn't, there is a good chance we will lose. No more excuses for a guy who is in his 8th season playing on one of the most talented teams in the NFL.

lol it was probably painful for you to say that wasnt it? I'm not trying to give excuses, I'm explaining the reality of things. Since being in Minnesota, the 2018 and 2019 teams are the most talented teams Cousins has ever been on. Not even close. However, all of 2018 and the first 4 games of 2019 (for the most part) were the complete opposite of a balanced offense. Flips game plan week in and week out for Cousins in 2018 was "carry the team on your shoulders by throwing 40 times a game and go win us games". Stefanski/Kubiaks game plan for the first 4 games this year (again, for the most part) was "let Dalvin win us games, we'll have Cousins throw heavy when we're down". As much as you will want to cherry pick all of this, it's true. Look what happens when we balance the offense and keep defenses on their toes the last two games. And it all happened because Thielen and Diggs spoke out publicly about it. Thielen has said more than one that we need balance in the offense, that we can win just running the ball all game. No different than we cant win just throwing the ball all game. It got so bad last year that NE and SEA were doubling and tripling our WRs because they knew we werent going to run the ball. And in those games, Cook had limited carries but averaging over 4 YPC in those games. Hell, he was averaging 9.3 vs NE but got 9 fricken carries. That is absolutely 100% unacceptable. And I am glad Kubiak and Stefanski can see Dalvin's talent unlike Flip did but they were the opposite of Flip early on. They didnt see Cousins talent as well as our WRs talent. Them speaking out looks like it opened their eyes.

Balance in an offense and playing to guys strengths like Shurmur did helped Case Keenum do what he did in 2017. Case Keenum of all QBs. Nobody has provided that for Cousins until these last two games. Sure, maybe there are games we are a little more run heavy than pass heavy or vice versa but Flip was ridiculously lopsided. Kubiak and Stefanski werent far off the other way early this year. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we were the 7th best rushing offense in 2017 with worse RBs than we have now (Murray/McKinnon) and we were the 11th best passing offense in 2017 with a worse QB than we have now (Keenum). This speaks VOLUMES for what Pat Shurmur did for that team that year.....Playing. to. his. players. strengths. and balancing. an. offense.

Mark my words, if we continue to do what we have the last two games and that is balancing the offense, playing to our players strengths and playing good defense, we are going to win a lot of games this year. I dont care who the QB is. Because clearly it didnt matter in 2017 and we all saw how poor of a QB Keenum was last year and this year (and prior to 2017). We have every tool we need (other than quality OL, which can be disguised with the right play calling) to balance this offense and win games. There is no reason the OC's should EVER be doing anything different. Our QB, RBs, WRs are all playmakers that can beat any team on any given sunday. Props to Diggs and Thielen speaking out because it could have very well completely turned this season around.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Enjoy it. Be happy for the team. Instead of looking for ways cousins wasn’t impressive.

Is that even possible for a Vikings fan??

For some, no. Others yes

[VikingLord]

I don't hate him. I hate the excuses people make for him whenever he plays bad. I hate that he was given a contract that will only be justified if he wins it all. I hate the excuses for the contract. I hate that people tear down the rest of the team and the coaches in their efforts make Cousins look better.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that is what most people are doing when either Cousins struggles or when the overall team struggles. There just aren't that many true Cousins apologists around. In my experience, people seem a lot more likely to offer unfair or biased criticisms against Cousins than for him.

A lot of that probably comes from the contract he signed and the resultant expectations that created, but if there is a perception bias around Cousins, it seems heavily weighted against him.

And while it's fine to say "let his performance speak for itself", no QB plays in a vacuum where it's trivial to isolate his performance from those around him in every situation.

Take Cousins fumbles, for example. Yeah, he needs to protect the ball better when under pressure, but it's extremely rare for a QB to fumble if he's well protected. If you acknowledge that the protection broke down and Cousins' arm was hit and he fumbled, is it "tearing down the rest of the team" to point out that someone blew it in pass protection? Maybe Cousins held the ball too long. Maybe he got skittish and bolted the pocket early. Those things are on him. But if one of his blockers just got beat and Cousins got hit, I don't think it's unfair to call his teammates out on that.

Ditto for dropped passes. If it's a bad throw, that's likely on Cousins. But it might not entirely be on Cousins. It depends on the situation. Even a botched catch that went for an INT like the one he threw to Diggs against Philly really can't be counted against him.

My basic point is, sure, let his play speak for itself, but there is such a thing as fair criticism of the components around him, including the coaches and the gameplan. This is a team sport.