Kirk Cousins is just NOT a big game quarterback

[Pondering Her Percy]

Lots of good stuff here:



Pat originally hated on Kirk last week but then changed his tune to blaming Zimmer for the offensive faults.

So what do we think?

Did the Thielen and Diggs comments actually sway the coaching staff to throw the ball more yesterday, as speculated here?

I said it did Sunday night before I even saw this. I think the whole Thielen and diggs thing was targeted and zimmer and the OC not cousins like the media wanted to claim. Why would they go after cousins when he gave them both the best seasons of their careers last year? And if it was up to Kirk cousins do you think he’d be under center and running the ball all game? Something Thielen lashed out about. No. And like David Carr said, the concept of the routes and passing offense is something you’d see in high school. Both of these WRs know Kirk can get them the ball. He’s proved that in year 1. I think they were sick of having no answer when the run failed. I think Zim was so honed In on running the football this year that that’s what they spent most of their time on is putting in this run first offense. They put passing the ball in the back seat. Even though stefanski and kubiak adjusted vs NY, they still don’t have this passing game where it should be. In the sense of route concepts, 3-4 WR sets, etc.

I think stefanski and kubiak were petrified of zimmer and if they didn’t listen to him they’d be fired like flip was. Zimmer had every right in the world to fire flip last year because there was ZERO reason to not run the football and flat out ignore it sometimes. But Zim should have focused on these guys establishing a balanced offense. Not just a run first offense. Should have taken a page out of shurmurs book. And because he was so stubborn, he didn’t, ticked off two of our best players and put us behind in the nfc north. He even admitted in his presser after the NY game that he wanted this offense more balanced out and that he’s going to try and stick to that. Also said he needs to be more aggressive on defense.

They need to continue to focus on this pass game. The run will be there most games. And balance the damn offense the best we can like we did Sunday each and every game from here on out.

[Bowhunting Viking]

Lots of good stuff here:



Pat originally hated on Kirk last week but then changed his tune to blaming Zimmer for the offensive faults.

So what do we think?

Did the Thielen and Diggs comments actually sway the coaching staff to throw the ball more yesterday, as speculated here?

Just my take. I live Zim. Doesn't have anything to do with football, but I love the fact he is a fellow outdoorsman. The dude learned to switch shooting his bow to left handed cuz of his right eye problem. That's a cherry on top for me.
I love his toughness, his say it like it is no B.S.
But , I also feel he is a my way only type of guy... to a fault sometimes. Remember Tom Coughlin??? Team leaders finally basically locked him in a room and finally opened up with the truth that they were sick of his B.S. rules and it was ruining the team. What happend? He finally LISTENED and made some changes and they all ended up totally committed as a team on both sides, and we know the outcome.
Just speculation here, but maybe, just maybe the fact a team guy like Theilen came out publicly and really vented, and we don't know maybe what other leaders in the locker room said BEHIND closed doors. Maybe Zim finally listened and may change his ways a bit.
McAfee said it perfectly... handcuffs. Maybe , just maybe, Zim will take the key to those Offensive handcuffs out of his safe.. stick it in the handcuffs of his O.C., and his assistant Off coach Kubiak, and especially off his QB and let them play some offense, and let his D do what they do.
When Cousins slammed his helmet down on the sidelines I was elated to see some passion from him.
Sometimes I life u just gotta say screw it and just quit being afraid and just take a chance.
MAYBE the handcuffs can finally be put away and our players can quit living in fear and just start PLAYING!!!
We will see Sunday against Philly if it was a fluke or hopefully the start of something good. Who knows.
But I hope there was a breakthrough between the team, the staff and especially Zim.
Heres to hope

[CharVike]

If they didn't end the year with a winning record you consider them good? Or lucky to make the playoffs?

The eagles had a winning record and made the playoffs last year. But when cousins beat them they didn’t have a winning record so it doesn’t count as a “good team” win for him. That’s why I think the stat is bogus. I can’t imagine how many 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, etc teams he’s played and beat and they finished the year with a winning record but it didn’t count as a “win” for him in that category. It’s just a meaningless stat IMO. They make it look way worse than it probably is. It’s definitely not good, but it’s much better than 5 wins I guarantee it. Rodgers is 17-26 all time vs winning teams. But who knows how that’s calculated since he’s looked at as a god

Never thought Rodgers was that bad against winning teams. He blows also and isn't worth the coin. Is there an active QB with a winning record against winning teams. I would assume Brady but he don't face many winning teams.

[808vikingsfan]

The eagles had a winning record and made the playoffs last year. But when cousins beat them they didn’t have a winning record so it doesn’t count as a “good team” win for him. That’s why I think the stat is bogus. I can’t imagine how many 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, etc teams he’s played and beat and they finished the year with a winning record but it didn’t count as a “win” for him in that category. It’s just a meaningless stat IMO. They make it look way worse than it probably is. It’s definitely not good, but it’s much better than 5 wins I guarantee it. Rodgers is 17-26 all time vs winning teams. But who knows how that’s calculated since he’s looked at as a god

Never thought Rodgers was that bad against winning teams. He blows also and isn't worth the coin. Is there an active QB with a winning record against winning teams. I would assume Brady but he don't face many winning teams.

RUSSELL WILSON

[StumpHunter]

Lots of good stuff here:



Pat originally hated on Kirk last week but then changed his tune to blaming Zimmer for the offensive faults.

So what do we think?

Did the Thielen and Diggs comments actually sway the coaching staff to throw the ball more yesterday, as speculated here?

Probably not since they threw it less.

In the two games the Vikings offense struggled they threw it 30+ times. In the 3 they played well he threw it under 30 times. Too few pass attempts is not the problem and it surprising anyone would claim it was.

[Pondering Her Percy]

So what do we think?

Did the Thielen and Diggs comments actually sway the coaching staff to throw the ball more yesterday, as speculated here?

Probably not since they threw it less.

In the two games the Vikings offense struggled they threw it 30+ times. In the 3 they played well he threw it under 30 times. Too few pass attempts is not the problem and it surprising anyone would claim it was.

Dude no. The reason we threw in the GB and Chicago games more was because we were down. But they also werent prepared when it comes to passing in either of those games. They didnt expect to be down 21-0 to GB. They didnt expect the running game to be stone walled vs. Chicago and the problem was, they had no plan B because of it. Both games we were down the entire game. In the 3 games we won we were never losing. IMO, what Thielen and Diggs were trying to get across was balance in the offense. Thielen has mentioned it multiple times in his interviews. They arent going to be mad when Cook is going off, because when he is we are usually winning or the fact that it helps the team win in general. Saying that having "too few pass attempts is not the problem" is an on the surface argument you're trying to have. Again, it's bigger than that. The one game we had excellent balance was the Giants. And Thielen and Diggs were tickled pink after the game. The close second was Oakland but the Giants game was well executed overall and it showed. It's not just "more pass attempts", it's balancing the offense. If the offense is balanced then nobody should be upset because everyone is getting the ball and we have the talent to win when everyone is getting the ball. Big difference.

[StumpHunter]

Probably not since they threw it less.

In the two games the Vikings offense struggled they threw it 30+ times. In the 3 they played well he threw it under 30 times. Too few pass attempts is not the problem and it surprising anyone would claim it was.

Dude no. The reason we threw in the GB and Chicago games more was because we were down. But they also werent prepared when it comes to passing in either of those games. They didnt expect to be down 21-0 to GB. They didnt expect the running game to be stone walled vs. Chicago and the problem was, they had no plan B because of it. Both games we were down the entire game. In the 3 games we won we were never losing. IMO, what Thielen and Diggs were trying to get across was balance in the offense. Thielen has mentioned it multiple times in his interviews. They arent going to be mad when Cook is going off, because when he is we are usually winning or the fact that it helps the team win in general. Saying that having "too few pass attempts is not the problem" is an on the surface argument you're trying to have. Again, it's bigger than that. The one game we had excellent balance was the Giants. And Thielen and Diggs were tickled pink after the game. The close second was Oakland but the Giants game was well executed overall and it showed. It's not just "more pass attempts", it's balancing the offense. If the offense is balanced then nobody should be upset because everyone is getting the ball and we have the talent to win when everyone is getting the ball. Big difference.

We had good balance in the 1st and 2nd quarter of the Bears and Packer's game too. 11 passes to 10 rushes in the 1st and 2nd quarter of the Bears game, 15 passes to 13 rushes in the Packers' game. Way too many of those passes were not going to Diggs and Theilen, but they were passing the ball. Maybe that is what they were upset about? Just as many receptions in the first two quarters of those games by CJ Ham, as Diggs and twice as many as Theilen?

The only two games where we didn't have balance were the Oakland and Atlanta games, and we were up huge early in both those games, and were running the ball really well.If Theilen and Diggs are upset about not passing in those games, F em. They are selfish players who are putting their stats ahead of the team winning. I don't think they were upset about those games though.

[J. Kapp 11]

Probably not since they threw it less.

In the two games the Vikings offense struggled they threw it 30+ times. In the 3 they played well he threw it under 30 times. Too few pass attempts is not the problem and it surprising anyone would claim it was.

Dude no. The reason we threw in the GB and Chicago games more was because we were down. But they also werent prepared when it comes to passing in either of those games. They didnt expect to be down 21-0 to GB. They didnt expect the running game to be stone walled vs. Chicago and the problem was, they had no plan B because of it. Both games we were down the entire game. In the 3 games we won we were never losing. IMO, what Thielen and Diggs were trying to get across was balance in the offense. Thielen has mentioned it multiple times in his interviews. They arent going to be mad when Cook is going off, because when he is we are usually winning or the fact that it helps the team win in general. Saying that having "too few pass attempts is not the problem" is an on the surface argument you're trying to have. Again, it's bigger than that. The one game we had excellent balance was the Giants. And Thielen and Diggs were tickled pink after the game. The close second was Oakland but the Giants game was well executed overall and it showed. It's not just "more pass attempts", it's balancing the offense. If the offense is balanced then nobody should be upset because everyone is getting the ball and we have the talent to win when everyone is getting the ball. Big difference.

Yep.

Diggs and Thielen were rightfully upset after the Bears game. Kirk was checking down constantly, even though Diggs and Thielen were getting separation. It had nothing to do with the number of throws. It had to do with where Kirk was going with the ball. He was bailing on the rush before he ever had a chance to see Diggs and Thielen.

The way to beat Kirk Cousins is pretty simple. Pressure him. Ever since about halfway through last year, he's fallen apart when the rush is anywhere near him. If you're a quarterback in the NFL, and you think you should never get hit ... you probably ought to be doing something else.

[VikingLord]

The way to beat Kirk Cousins is pretty simple. Pressure him. Ever since about halfway through last year, he's fallen apart when the rush is anywhere near him. If you're a quarterback in the NFL, and you think you should never get hit ... you probably ought to be doing something else.

The last two games, Cousins has dealt with the pressure really well.

Take that off-balance laser to Treadwell on 4th-and-5. That was a big league throw there, not just to get the ball to Treadwell, but with the velocity and placement it had. As shocked as I was that Treadwell not only caught it, but got both feet inbounds, I was far more impressed that Cousins made that throw. He was under pressure. It wasn't an easy throw to make. But he stayed cool, waited for it to come open, and lasered it.

Honestly, it was vintage Brett Favre or John Elway on that one, and that wasn't the only throw he made like that. I saw him stand tall in the pocket several times too under some duress and deliver the ball on target. It seems like he's mentally in the right place and playing with the right attitude, and it really shows up in the results.

Another thing I wanted to highlight about Cousins in the last two games is his on-field leadership. He has stepped up his game in that department as well. He's commanding the huddle, showing urgency earlier, and a lot more fire and passion than I recall seeing from him earlier in the season. He's playing, in essence, the entire game the way he has played late when the Vikings are down and he needs to bring them back. The players around him seem to be responding to that. The offense remained energetic and effective throughout the game. Heck, they might have punched another score in late had Mattison not fumbled. Cousins has something to do with that.

[YikesVikes]

The way to beat Kirk Cousins is pretty simple. Pressure him. Ever since about halfway through last year, he's fallen apart when the rush is anywhere near him. If you're a quarterback in the NFL, and you think you should never get hit ... you probably ought to be doing something else.

The last two games, Cousins has dealt with the pressure really well.

Take that off-balance laser to Treadwell on 4th-and-5. That was a big league throw there, not just to get the ball to Treadwell, but with the velocity and placement it had. As shocked as I was that Treadwell not only caught it, but got both feet inbounds, I was far more impressed that Cousins made that throw. He was under pressure. It wasn't an easy throw to make. But he stayed cool, waited for it to come open, and lasered it.

Honestly, it was vintage Brett Favre or John Elway on that one, and that wasn't the only throw he made like that. I saw him stand tall in the pocket several times too under some duress and deliver the ball on target. It seems like he's mentally in the right place and playing with the right attitude, and it really shows up in the results.

Another thing I wanted to highlight about Cousins in the last two games is his on-field leadership. He has stepped up his game in that department as well. He's commanding the huddle, showing urgency earlier, and a lot more fire and passion than I recall seeing from him earlier in the season. He's playing, in essence, the entire game the way he has played late when the Vikings are down and he needs to bring them back. The players around him seem to be responding to that. The offense remained energetic and effective throughout the game. Heck, they might have punched another score in late had Mattison not fumbled. Cousins has something to do with that.

What pressure. Bradbury had given up 0 pressures in both games. I dont have stats for the rest of the interior but I am positive they have all improved or held par. The dramatic improvement by our Center is enough to justify that he wasnt really pressured in both games.

[VikingLord]

What pressure. Bradbury had given up 0 pressures in both games. I dont have stats for the rest of the interior but I am positive they have all improved or held par. The dramatic improvement by our Center is enough to justify that he wasnt really pressured in both games.

There was some pressure. Notably, I thought the Eagles played the designed roll outs well and usually had someone either running at Cousins or pressuring him on the roll. He was under duress on a couple of other plays, plays where he had flushed early from the pocket against the Bears and Packers, but where he stood in against the Giants and Eagles. For example, there was one play where the Eagles blitzed and Dalvin Cook was the only guy between the stunting DT and Cousins, and Cousins stayed in the pocket and delivered the ball. Cook managed to block more effectively on that play than he had against the Bears in similar situations, but I thought it was notable that Cousins stood in and didn't bail seeing the DT coming unblocked up the middle. There were other plays when Philly sent extra pressure that Cousins stood in and delivered on too.

I'm not trying to say the OL or pass blocking was bad. It was generally solid. What stood out to me more was that Cousins was focused on his receivers and making the throw rather than on the rush and the pressure.

[Dames]

The line did a really nice job keeping Cousins clean almost the entire game, but he made really good decisions when there was pressure, and that's not something we saw just a few games ago. The truth is, Cousins has played great the last 2 games. Yesterday, he got rid of the ball quickly and made on-target throws.

Anyone disputing that is really just looking for issues that don't exist (in these games). Of course, some people can nitpick even the greatest QB to death on his best day. (No, I'm not calling Cousins the greatest QB )

I'm certainly not ready to call Cousins "fixed", but absolutely I love what I've been seeing lately. I really hope he can continue this. I want to see this against a good pass defense still though. Especially on the road. Not sure when the next time we see a good defense is though. It honestly might not be until the end of the year.

Dallas is the next potentially decent Pass def, but they are middle of the pack actually. The Chargers have been pretty good, and the then the Bears. Otherwise, at this point the schedule looks pretty soft vs the pass. Not saying the teams are all soft of course, just the pass D so far.

The Packers are not great vs the pass either, no matter how much hype the media gives them.

[Dames]

Take that off-balance laser to Treadwell on 4th-and-5. That was a big league throw there, not just to get the ball to Treadwell, but with the velocity and placement it had. As shocked as I was that Treadwell not only caught it, but got both feet inbounds, I was far more impressed that Cousins made that throw. He was under pressure. It wasn't an easy throw to make. But he stayed cool, waited for it to come open, and lasered it.

Seeing it live, I loved that play. Both the call, and the execution by Cousins/Treadwell. I was a little shocked they called it, but very pleasantly surprised. Maybe, if it's a 7 point game it doesn't get called. Not sure. But it felt out of character for Zim to allow it. Oh, nevermind... if it's 7 point game, they were in FG range, so they definitely kick it.

I just went back and re-watched it, and it was an even better play by Cousins than I remembered. He did have pressure, not because the line gave it up, but from the LB playing on the edge (54). He made a great throw off his back foot to a place where only Treadwell was getting it. Really impressive. To me, that's a throw of a very confident QB. He was definitely playing loose. Playing with a big lead no doubt helps that.

[CharVike]

The last two games, Cousins has dealt with the pressure really well.

Take that off-balance laser to Treadwell on 4th-and-5. That was a big league throw there, not just to get the ball to Treadwell, but with the velocity and placement it had. As shocked as I was that Treadwell not only caught it, but got both feet inbounds, I was far more impressed that Cousins made that throw. He was under pressure. It wasn't an easy throw to make. But he stayed cool, waited for it to come open, and lasered it.

Honestly, it was vintage Brett Favre or John Elway on that one, and that wasn't the only throw he made like that. I saw him stand tall in the pocket several times too under some duress and deliver the ball on target. It seems like he's mentally in the right place and playing with the right attitude, and it really shows up in the results.

Another thing I wanted to highlight about Cousins in the last two games is his on-field leadership. He has stepped up his game in that department as well. He's commanding the huddle, showing urgency earlier, and a lot more fire and passion than I recall seeing from him earlier in the season. He's playing, in essence, the entire game the way he has played late when the Vikings are down and he needs to bring them back. The players around him seem to be responding to that. The offense remained energetic and effective throughout the game. Heck, they might have punched another score in late had Mattison not fumbled. Cousins has something to do with that.

What pressure. Bradbury had given up 0 pressures in both games. I dont have stats for the rest of the interior but I am positive they have all improved or held par. The dramatic improvement by our Center is enough to justify that he wasnt really pressured in both games.

The Eagles are having problems getting pressure on the QB this year. I'm not knocking our OL but if you read some Eagle stuff they are also concerned. Did teams all of the sudden figure them out?

After a 27-24 loss to the Lions on Sunday in which the Eagles only hit the quarterback three times in 33 dropbacks, it’s become an issue even members of a prideful defensive front can no longer ignore.

How is that even possible. Or did Stafford all the sudden develop the quickest release in the NFL or in the history of the NFL? He's the next Marino I guess. IMO Stafford is what he is. This isn't a kid who is on his way up. This is a guy who has already peaked. I think the Eagles front is having problems and they feel the same way. That's based on reading some Philly ink. Don't take that as a knock on our OL. But Bradberry wasn't grading out as the top center and now he don't give up any pressure. There's more to it.

[YikesVikes]

What pressure. Bradbury had given up 0 pressures in both games. I dont have stats for the rest of the interior but I am positive they have all improved or held par. The dramatic improvement by our Center is enough to justify that he wasnt really pressured in both games.

There was some pressure. Notably, I thought the Eagles played the designed rollouts well and usually had someone either running at Cousins or pressuring him on the roll. He was under duress on a couple of other plays, plays where he had flushed early from the pocket against the Bears and Packers, but where he stood in against the Giants and Eagles. For example, there was one play where the Eagles blitzed and Dalvin Cook was the only guy between the stunting DT and Cousins, and Cousins stayed in the pocket and delivered the ball. Cook managed to block more effectively on that play than he had against the Bears in similar situations, but I thought it was notable that Cousins stood in and didn't bail seeing the DT coming unblocked up the middle. There were other plays when Philly sent extra pressure that Cousins stood in and delivered on too.

I'm not trying to say the OL or pass blocking was bad. It was generally solid. What stood out to me more was that Cousins was focused on his receivers and making the throw rather than on the rush and the pressure.

Right but that is not above average in any game. My point was that we have had a below-average amount of pressure in the last 2 weeks. Guys will get thru and blitzes will come. However, thats par for the course of an NFL offense. What we were seeing before was abysmal.