Kirk Cousins is just NOT a big game quarterback

[Pondering Her Percy]

I dont know if I said this before, but I have to say...nothing gets on my nerves more, than when Kirk makes an inexcusable play and then when the feed gets back from a commercial break, his face is buried in the tablet. The Microsoft Surface isn't going to give you an instinctual pocket presence, dude! #### play football.

I guess this is what I don’t buy with some of you guys. I can recall a few times Kirk probably held it too long. But anytime he gets sacked it results in “no pocket presence” or “throw the ball away” or “get rid of it”. Better yet, is it not a very high possibility that nobody is open and given that he is in the pocket, he can’t just throw it away otherwise it would be grounding? Cousins is at fault for certain plays but this was way more than just Kirk cousins and him not having “instinctual pocket presence”. Cousins isn’t a guy that misses wide open WRs that are screaming for the ball. My guess is, nobody was open. So when the pocket is caving as quick as it did today and you want him to “throw the ball” who is he throwing the ball to? Out of bounds? That’s grounding. To a covered WR? Not a smart idea. Scramble away? To where? You don’t scramble before your 7 step drop. You scramble AFTER you hit the back of it and scan the field. There was zero time for that. The OL simply wasn’t holding up and Reiff (especially) was getting abused.

He is a pocket passer. And let’s be honest, there were hardly ever clean pockets today. He’s shown much better pocket presence this year getting out of trouble. But those pockets caved early and often. As someone said in the chat, any QB behind that OL today would have been a train wreck today. No less coming out from under center on a 7 step drop early on. This is why I don’t like the constant under center. This OL cannot hold up against better pass rush teams that long. They just can’t. It showed vs GB and Chicago. Sure it will work against terrible DLs like Atlanta and Oakland but not the better teams.

This offense just has zero creativity. In passing situations Diggs and thielen should be targeted a hell of a lot more. That’s the one small thing I’ll give flip is he knew how to get those guys open and get them the ball.

I’m starting to think this offense is the complete opposite of flips. Overuse of the run and putting little time into the pass. It looks like they don’t prepare when it comes to passing. And sorry but Kirk cousins doesn’t just forget how to throw a football, go through his reads, become wildly inaccurate or whatever. It just doesn’t happen. It’s a very straight forward, basic offense. The creativity is at an all time low. And the pass blocking just isn’t there for constant under center passing attempts.

That was one of the most frustrating games Ive ever watched because I knew how bad their offense was and we couldn’t find a lick of daylight on offense. And then our defense (more Zim than the players) played scared.

I’m ready to drive to Chicago and blow the stadium up. I’m starting to believe we are cursed in that place. No matter if Chicago is loaded or terrible. We just struggle to ever win there. We’re better in lambeau than we are in that place for whatever reason

[Pondering Her Percy]

Bottom line is, the offensive line is still a serious concern, especially when it comes to pass blocking. I told you that before this game.

Brian O’Neill needs to be this teams right tackle. I said it last year too. Reiffs feet and athleticism just aren’t there to stay with these speedy pass rushers. O’Neill’s are. Elfleins overall skill set is a concern which I don’t get because he was solid his rookie year. Bradbury’s pass blocking concerns me. Dozier is dozier but I think O’Neill is far and away our best lineman and Kline seems solid for the most part even tho he’s missed some time.

We need a new LT. Or a new RT and move O’Neill to left. Obviously I’ll give Bradbury time but still concerned. Hopefully Kline can get healthy and show he can continue decent play. Elflein might have to go after this year.

People can say “defense only gave up 16” and think it was an ok game all they want. That was the worst defensive outing of the year IMO. We had TWO possessions the entire first half. A backup QB was hardly ever blitzed or put on his back. And the bears OL isn’t that great and was banged up.

If I see one more DB 8 yards off on a 3rd and 3 a remote might go through my TV. I get sick of Zim saying he has confidence in his front 4 getting to the QB. He relies on it wayyy too much. On the rare occasions we sent a blitz or an extra rusher and Daniels he folded. But that was maybe twice. In a situation like we were in with Trubisky going down, how do you not send the wolves at a backup QB??? Like what are you worried about?? Him beating you over the top? We blitzed Matt Ryan and he has one of the better trios at WR and a way better arm. It’s like Zim played scared or sat guys back hoping for a pick.

No less, I can’t tell you how many times I saw us go press coverage on 1st and 10 but we’re a mile off on 3rd and 3?? Like it doesn’t even make any sense to me. All Daniels had to do was continue to check down, chip away and run the clock out. Fuc#ing get into press coverage on 3rd and 3 and send an extra rusher or two. The guy is gonna crap his pants. But we played that conservative defense that we see a few games a year from Zim. I will never understand what he pulled today.

I love Zim but he crapped the bed hard today. And no less we shoot ourselves in the foot by getting a penalty on that forced fumble. Something that early is a game changer. Instead, they go down and go up 7-0. Where it could’ve initially been 3-0 or 7-0 Vikings from the start. And getting the ball at half. Daniels could sit back and relax today because he was never in the hole. It reminded me of last years saints game. We’re going on before half and could have went up 17-13 AND getting the ball at half but thielen fumbles and we end up going into half down 20-10. Went from being possibly up 4 to down 10.

That’s a terrible offense to begin with let alone having a backup go in there. We could have shut this team out or given up under 10 if Zim would have some balls.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a worse/frustrating defensive performance than that in a long time. Sometimes things don’t go out way (rams last year, eagles in 2017) but that was easily preventable and Zim blew it badly.

They gave up 13 points....

Ok? 16....13....regardless. It was a terrible defensive performance. And no matter which one it was, we’d still lose. Pull your head out of the cousins gutter and realize what I am saying. I know you’re in a huge hurry to blame Kirk cousins for the 3 points he gave Chicago but you’re clearly missing the big picture. In your eyes it’s just another, “Kirk cousins lost us the game” argument. I’m looking at it as the entire team, including coaches lost us the game” argument. The great Aaron Rodgers put up 10 on this defense (on a lucky lob pass no less). This team effort (more so Zim and Stefanski) was horrid. Zero creativity on offense, terrible positioning and overly conservative defensive play calling. Against one of the worst offenses in the nfl if you ask me. Just unacceptable

[StumpHunter]

They gave up 13 points....

Ok? 16....13....regardless. It was a terrible defensive performance. And no matter which one it was, we’d still lose. Pull your head out of the cousins gutter and realize what I am saying. I know you’re in a huge hurry to blame Kirk cousins for the 3 points he gave Chicago but you’re clearly missing the big picture. In your eyes it’s just another, “Kirk cousins lost us the game” argument. I’m looking at it as the entire team, including coaches lost us the game” argument. The great Aaron Rodgers put up 10 on this defense (on a lucky lob pass no less). This team effort (more so Zim and Stefanski) was horrid. Zero creativity on offense, terrible positioning and overly conservative defensive play calling. Against one of the worst offenses in the nfl if you ask me. Just unacceptable

13 points given up is good no matter who you are playing. The Vikings defense wasn't as good as the Bears, but it was still pretty good if not good enough. Holding the Bears to 2 FG drives wasn't good enough though.

[VikingLord]

Ok? 16....13....regardless. It was a terrible defensive performance. And no matter which one it was, we’d still lose. Pull your head out of the cousins gutter and realize what I am saying. I know you’re in a huge hurry to blame Kirk cousins for the 3 points he gave Chicago but you’re clearly missing the big picture. In your eyes it’s just another, “Kirk cousins lost us the game” argument. I’m looking at it as the entire team, including coaches lost us the game” argument. The great Aaron Rodgers put up 10 on this defense (on a lucky lob pass no less). This team effort (more so Zim and Stefanski) was horrid. Zero creativity on offense, terrible positioning and overly conservative defensive play calling. Against one of the worst offenses in the nfl if you ask me. Just unacceptable

13 points given up is good no matter who you are playing. The Vikings defense wasn't as good as the Bears, but it was still pretty good if not good enough. Holding the Bears to 2 FG drives wasn't good enough though.

Why does it have to be either-or?

Cousins was awful today. He made every mistake I've become accustomed to expecting him to make save he didn't throw an INT.

But the defense wasn't better. Not against that offense.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Ok? 16....13....regardless. It was a terrible defensive performance. And no matter which one it was, we’d still lose. Pull your head out of the cousins gutter and realize what I am saying. I know you’re in a huge hurry to blame Kirk cousins for the 3 points he gave Chicago but you’re clearly missing the big picture. In your eyes it’s just another, “Kirk cousins lost us the game” argument. I’m looking at it as the entire team, including coaches lost us the game” argument. The great Aaron Rodgers put up 10 on this defense (on a lucky lob pass no less). This team effort (more so Zim and Stefanski) was horrid. Zero creativity on offense, terrible positioning and overly conservative defensive play calling. Against one of the worst offenses in the nfl if you ask me. Just unacceptable

13 points given up is good no matter who you are playing. The Vikings defense wasn't as good as the Bears, but it was still pretty good if not good enough. Holding the Bears to 2 FG drives wasn't good enough though.

It was not good enough. The fact that we had 2 offensive possessions in an entire half is unheard of. Because the defense couldn’t get off the field. Chicago ate clock that entire game with check downs that we couldn’t figure out how to stop. Maybe the score didn’t show a poor game by the defense but if you watched it (which I’m guessing you did) they were trampled on. By an already poor offense and a backup QB. They allowed their offense to control the game and it’s exactly what Chicago did. That’s not good defense or “good enough” defense. It’s more than just the score, it’s the time of possession that they allowed. I couldn’t even tell you if our offense played a good first half or not because we only got the ball 2 times. This defense shut down GBs offense for 3/4 of the game. Didn’t give up points, didn’t let them continue to eat clock, etc. But we can’t shut down chase Daniels and company? They were horrible today.

Shake it any way you want just so you can run and point the finger at #8. If you thought that defense played good or good enough today, I seriously question your football knowledge

[VikingLord]

13 points given up is good no matter who you are playing. The Vikings defense wasn't as good as the Bears, but it was still pretty good if not good enough. Holding the Bears to 2 FG drives wasn't good enough though.

It was not good enough. The fact that we had 2 offensive possessions in an entire half is unheard of. Because the defense couldn’t get off the field. Chicago ate clock that entire game with check downs that we couldn’t figure out how to stop. Maybe the score didn’t show a poor game by the defense but if you watched it (which I’m guessing you did) they were trampled on. By an already poor offense and a backup QB. They allowed their offense to control the game and it’s exactly what Chicago did. That’s not good defense or “good enough” defense. It’s more than just the score, it’s the time of possession that they allowed. I couldn’t even tell you if our offense played a good first half or not because we only got the ball 2 times. This defense shut down GBs offense for 3/4 of the game. Didn’t give up points, didn’t let them continue to eat clock, etc. But we can’t shut down chase Daniels and company? They were horrible today.

Shake it any way you want just so you can run and point the finger at #8. If you thought that defense played good or good enough today, I seriously question your football knowledge

The defense did *nothing* to alter the flow of the Bear offense with Daniels at QB. No pressure. The DBs played their usual cover packages. No jumping routes. No anticipation. Nothing to make the Bears think twice about anything. Daniels was even quoted as saying he felt like he was in practice running the scout team! That said by the backup QB for the Chicago Bears!

I'm sure Daniels didn't mean that as an insult, but how any self-respecting defensive coach or player couldn't take a statement like that as the ultimate insult is beyond me.

Anyone who thinks the Vikings seriously have a good defense this year needs their eyes checked, especially given the continuity and veteran makeup of this group. After being together and in the league for so long, they have a disturbing lack of presence about them. They play as if there is a written script and don't deviate from it.

[CharVike]

It was not good enough. The fact that we had 2 offensive possessions in an entire half is unheard of. Because the defense couldn’t get off the field. Chicago ate clock that entire game with check downs that we couldn’t figure out how to stop. Maybe the score didn’t show a poor game by the defense but if you watched it (which I’m guessing you did) they were trampled on. By an already poor offense and a backup QB. They allowed their offense to control the game and it’s exactly what Chicago did. That’s not good defense or “good enough” defense. It’s more than just the score, it’s the time of possession that they allowed. I couldn’t even tell you if our offense played a good first half or not because we only got the ball 2 times. This defense shut down GBs offense for 3/4 of the game. Didn’t give up points, didn’t let them continue to eat clock, etc. But we can’t shut down chase Daniels and company? They were horrible today.

Shake it any way you want just so you can run and point the finger at #8. If you thought that defense played good or good enough today, I seriously question your football knowledge

The defense did *nothing* to alter the flow of the Bear offense with Daniels at QB. No pressure. The DBs played their usual cover packages. No jumping routes. No anticipation. Nothing to make the Bears think twice about anything. Daniels was even quoted as saying he felt like he was in practice running the scout team! That said by the backup QB for the Chicago Bears!

I'm sure Daniels didn't mean that as an insult, but how any self-respecting defensive coach or player couldn't take a statement like that as the ultimate insult is beyond me.

Anyone who thinks the Vikings seriously have a good defense this year needs their eyes checked, especially given the continuity and veteran makeup of this group. After being together and in the league for so long, they have a disturbing lack of presence about them. They play as if there is a written script and don't deviate from it.

Our defense isn't at the level it needs to be for us to contend for the championship. We played against a backup QB. That should be shutdown or close to it. Just not a good game for us across the board. Now we face the Giants and this young QB they have looks good.

[StumpHunter]

The defense did *nothing* to alter the flow of the Bear offense with Daniels at QB. No pressure. The DBs played their usual cover packages. No jumping routes. No anticipation. Nothing to make the Bears think twice about anything. Daniels was even quoted as saying he felt like he was in practice running the scout team! That said by the backup QB for the Chicago Bears!

I'm sure Daniels didn't mean that as an insult, but how any self-respecting defensive coach or player couldn't take a statement like that as the ultimate insult is beyond me.

Anyone who thinks the Vikings seriously have a good defense this year needs their eyes checked, especially given the continuity and veteran makeup of this group. After being together and in the league for so long, they have a disturbing lack of presence about them. They play as if there is a written script and don't deviate from it.

You can't keep moving the goal post:

The wager will be this:

I think the defense lays another egg against the Bears in Chicago. It will be similar to what we saw against the Packers. It might not happen right away in the game, but against the vaunted Mitchell Trubisky-led offensive juggernaut that is the 2019 Bears offense, this Vikings defense will surrender another 21+ points and 100+ yards rushing.

I also predict Cousins will blow it again a few times in that game, probably with another fumble and a pick or two, so he won't be blameless either.

But after that game, if the defense surrenders 3 or more TDs to that offense, you come on here and state you were wrong to blame Cousins for the Packers loss and admit the defense isn't as great as you thought.

For my part, I'll be more than happy to acknowledge I was wrong about the defense if they shut down Trubisky and the Bears on the road.

Not even close to 3 TDs and 100+ rushing yards given up, but they are still bad because now they "didn't alter the flow of the game"? How are they supposed to pick off the QB when all they are throwing are a bunch of short dump offs after the first drive?

I get that they lost their starting QB, but guess what? Daniel is a better QB than Trubiskey most Sundays.

Go to the Texans and Cowboys message boards and read what they are saying about their defenses. Two teams that gave up a similar amount of points to backups, who lost because their offenses struggled. Those fans are not talking about how bad their defense were, they are talking about how their offenses squandered great games by the defense, yet here we are blaming the D again.

[StumpHunter]

13 points given up is good no matter who you are playing. The Vikings defense wasn't as good as the Bears, but it was still pretty good if not good enough. Holding the Bears to 2 FG drives wasn't good enough though.

It was not good enough. The fact that we had 2 offensive possessions in an entire half is unheard of. Because the defense couldn’t get off the field. Chicago ate clock that entire game with check downs that we couldn’t figure out how to stop. Maybe the score didn’t show a poor game by the defense but if you watched it (which I’m guessing you did) they were trampled on. By an already poor offense and a backup QB. They allowed their offense to control the game and it’s exactly what Chicago did. That’s not good defense or “good enough” defense. It’s more than just the score, it’s the time of possession that they allowed. I couldn’t even tell you if our offense played a good first half or not because we only got the ball 2 times. This defense shut down GBs offense for 3/4 of the game. Didn’t give up points, didn’t let them continue to eat clock, etc. But we can’t shut down chase Daniels and company? They were horrible today.

Shake it any way you want just so you can run and point the finger at #8. If you thought that defense played good or good enough today, I seriously question your football knowledge

I said it wasn't good enough. Because the offense sucked so bad.

I also don't blame all of this one on Cousins, believe or not. The Oline actually played bad in this game, giving up 6 sacks. Some of that was on the QB holding the ball way too long again, but most was on the line struggling.

Not all of the blame, but certainly #2 on the blame list.

[VikingLord]

Not even close to 3 TDs and 100+ rushing yards given up, but they are still bad because now they "didn't alter the flow of the game"? How are they supposed to pick off the QB when all they are throwing are a bunch of short dump offs after the first drive?

I get that they lost their starting QB, but guess what? Daniel is a better QB than Trubiskey most Sundays.

Go to the Texans and Cowboys message boards and read what they are saying about their defenses. Two teams that gave up a similar amount of points to backups, who lost because their offenses struggled. Those fans are not talking about how bad their defense were, they are talking about how their offenses squandered great games by the defense, yet here we are blaming the D again.

I didn't move the goalposts. Trubisky got hurt early and the Bears still owned the Vikings defense. Not to the tune of 3 TD's, granted, but the Vikings offense had *2* drives in the first half! 2!!!! TOP was something like 35-25 in favor of the Bears. It's nuts.

It didn't show up on the scoreboard, true, but it did show up just about everywhere else. So if you want to focus on the score because I predicted a score and you want to focus on rushing totals because I predicted rushing totals, then I'll grant you those because I missed on both.

But on the substance of my prediction I didn't miss and you know it.

[YikesVikes]

Shocker, our run first offense got destroyed by a team that can stop the run. We have nothing after running and cannot mount a decent passing attack. What happened to all those TEs we would use as a 3rd WR?

Any team we run into with a decent slime and fast LBs will beat us. When you are built to win only one way, you will lose a ton of games. Teams like the bears need to be spread wide and dinked and dinked down the field. Going double TE only makes it easier for them. We won't beat the bears until the offense changes.

[VikingLord]

Shocker, our run first offense got destroyed by a team that can stop the run. We have nothing after running and cannot mount a decent passing attack. What happened to all those TEs we would use as a 3rd WR?

Any team we run into with a decent slime and fast LBs will beat us. When you are built to win only one way, you will lose a ton of games. Teams like the bears need to be spread wide and dinked and dinked down the field. Going double TE only makes it easier for them. We won't beat the bears until the offense changes.

Zimmer is now 0-3 and counting against them. He'll likely be 0-4 as I don't see anything materially changing on either team by the end of this season when they'll meet again.

[StumpHunter]

Not even close to 3 TDs and 100+ rushing yards given up, but they are still bad because now they "didn't alter the flow of the game"? How are they supposed to pick off the QB when all they are throwing are a bunch of short dump offs after the first drive?

I get that they lost their starting QB, but guess what? Daniel is a better QB than Trubiskey most Sundays.

Go to the Texans and Cowboys message boards and read what they are saying about their defenses. Two teams that gave up a similar amount of points to backups, who lost because their offenses struggled. Those fans are not talking about how bad their defense were, they are talking about how their offenses squandered great games by the defense, yet here we are blaming the D again.

I didn't move the goalposts. Trubisky got hurt early and the Bears still owned the Vikings defense. Not to the tune of 3 TD's, granted, but the Vikings offense had *2* drives in the first half! 2!!!! TOP was something like 35-25 in favor of the Bears. It's nuts.

It didn't show up on the scoreboard, true, but it did show up just about everywhere else. So if you want to focus on the score because I predicted a score and you want to focus on rushing totals because I predicted rushing totals, then I'll grant you those because I missed on both.

But on the substance of my prediction I didn't miss and you know it.

1 TD drive and 72 rushing yards is not close to 3+ TD drives and 100+ rushing yards. The D was not the problem yesterday.

[VikingLord]

I didn't move the goalposts. Trubisky got hurt early and the Bears still owned the Vikings defense. Not to the tune of 3 TD's, granted, but the Vikings offense had *2* drives in the first half! 2!!!! TOP was something like 35-25 in favor of the Bears. It's nuts.

It didn't show up on the scoreboard, true, but it did show up just about everywhere else. So if you want to focus on the score because I predicted a score and you want to focus on rushing totals because I predicted rushing totals, then I'll grant you those because I missed on both.

But on the substance of my prediction I didn't miss and you know it.

1 TD drive and 72 rushing yards is not close to 3+ TD drives and 100+ rushing yards. The D was not the problem yesterday.

OK, I give up.

You're right - the Vikings defense was superb yesterday. Outstanding. Heck, maybe they can improve further if they give the Giants 40 minutes of possession in the upcoming game and maybe give the Viking offense 2 possessions in the first *and* second halves next week.

As long as other parts of the stat line look OK, that's fine then. Dominant defense all the way.

[VikingPaul73]

I’m surprised by the number of people in the game chat and this thread that are saying Cousins is “broken”

IMO he didn’t break he was just never “fixed”. This is exactly what his track record has been since the redskins. Good against bad teams, pads his stats in garbage time, and then absolutely crumbles against good teams and in pressure situations. Unfortunately the only ones who couldn’t see this were Rick, Zim, and some fans wearing purple colored glasses.

To paraphrase the late great Denny Green - Cousins is who we thought he was