Crucify the OC as well

[dead_poet]

@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings' 2018 explosive play rate under John DeFilippo: 8.0%, ranked 31st among all NFL offenses

Vikings' 2019 explosive play rate under Kevin Stefanski and Gary Kubiak so far: 16.1%, ranked 1st in the NFL

[Pondering Her Percy]

@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings' 2018 explosive play rate under John DeFilippo: 8.0%, ranked 31st among all NFL offenses

Vikings' 2019 explosive play rate under Kevin Stefanski and Gary Kubiak so far: 16.1%, ranked 1st in the NFL

Wow interesting stat DP! One, it proves this Stefanski/Kubiak combo knows what they are doing. Two, it shows just how bad of an OC Flip was

[StumpHunter]

lol what?? You made that "prediction" regarding Cousins to prevent backlash and cover your butt. Given that you "predicted" he would get rid of it quicker prevented anyone from coming at you and saying "see he doesnt hold the ball that long according to your stat". And if he DID NOT get rid of it quicker and was taking sacks, you'd be sitting there saying "see I told you he sucks and holds the ball too long".

Basically it's like me saying Dalvin Cook isnt a good RB but prior to the Oakland game saying, I predict him to do well vs Oakland. Like, I'm saying he sucks but covering my butt when I know he'll probably perform given the other teams talent level at certain positions. That's exactly what you did and have done in the past. So in turn, it's a win-win for you. You predict the good but expect the bad so no matter what happens, you can sit there and say "I told ya so" with your sarcastic little whistle.

Nope, it isn't like saying that at all. My prediction, if you cared to read it, was that Cousins would take significantly shorter to throw the ball and would be pressured less.

If however, I did say Cousins would be good against Oakland, that still isn't covering my butt. If I say Cousins is good against bad teams, bad against good, predicting he will be good against Oakland is being consistent.

I dont care that they got 2 sacks on Mahomes. That literally means nothing. Bottom line is, their pass rush is bad. It's not average, or even below average. It's BAD. Landing in the bottom 5 is bad and that's where they will end up. They are already there. But you'll be the one guy that says "well they had a big game vs KC....." and nobody is going to care.

I know you don't care. It means something. Their line hasn't been as bad as last year...except against the Viking's "atrocious" offensive line.

[CharVike]

lol what?? You made that "prediction" regarding Cousins to prevent backlash and cover your butt. Given that you "predicted" he would get rid of it quicker prevented anyone from coming at you and saying "see he doesnt hold the ball that long according to your stat". And if he DID NOT get rid of it quicker and was taking sacks, you'd be sitting there saying "see I told you he sucks and holds the ball too long".

Basically it's like me saying Dalvin Cook isnt a good RB but prior to the Oakland game saying, I predict him to do well vs Oakland. Like, I'm saying he sucks but covering my butt when I know he'll probably perform given the other teams talent level at certain positions. That's exactly what you did and have done in the past. So in turn, it's a win-win for you. You predict the good but expect the bad so no matter what happens, you can sit there and say "I told ya so" with your sarcastic little whistle.

Nope, it isn't like saying that at all. My prediction, if you cared to read it, was that Cousins would take significantly shorter to throw the ball and would be pressured less.

If however, I did say Cousins would be good against Oakland, that still isn't covering my butt. If I say Cousins is good against bad teams, bad against good, predicting he will be good against Oakland is being consistent.

I dont care that they got 2 sacks on Mahomes. That literally means nothing. Bottom line is, their pass rush is bad. It's not average, or even below average. It's BAD. Landing in the bottom 5 is bad and that's where they will end up. They are already there. But you'll be the one guy that says "well they had a big game vs KC....." and nobody is going to care.

I know you don't care. It means something. Their line hasn't been as bad as last year...except against the Viking's "atrocious" offensive line.

Make it easy just say Cousins will lose another game against a winning team. No matter what else happens it will be all him. We should get beat this game. We are on the road and the Bears have a better team. We will need to play perfect across the board. If not we will get beat. And we need this idiot OC to pound the ball. That's what we built. And this Zim D for once needs to play at there very best against playoff team that happens to be in our division. They need to shut it down. Don't get pushed around for a quarter. But if they get blasted again by this stiff QB it will be Cousins fault. That story is already written by some and they can't wait to post it.

[Pondering Her Percy]

lol what?? You made that "prediction" regarding Cousins to prevent backlash and cover your butt. Given that you "predicted" he would get rid of it quicker prevented anyone from coming at you and saying "see he doesnt hold the ball that long according to your stat". And if he DID NOT get rid of it quicker and was taking sacks, you'd be sitting there saying "see I told you he sucks and holds the ball too long".

Basically it's like me saying Dalvin Cook isnt a good RB but prior to the Oakland game saying, I predict him to do well vs Oakland. Like, I'm saying he sucks but covering my butt when I know he'll probably perform given the other teams talent level at certain positions. That's exactly what you did and have done in the past. So in turn, it's a win-win for you. You predict the good but expect the bad so no matter what happens, you can sit there and say "I told ya so" with your sarcastic little whistle.

Nope, it isn't like saying that at all. My prediction, if you cared to read it, was that Cousins would take significantly shorter to throw the ball and would be pressured less.

If however, I did say Cousins would be good against Oakland, that still isn't covering my butt. If I say Cousins is good against bad teams, bad against good, predicting he will be good against Oakland is being consistent.

I dont care that they got 2 sacks on Mahomes. That literally means nothing. Bottom line is, their pass rush is bad. It's not average, or even below average. It's BAD. Landing in the bottom 5 is bad and that's where they will end up. They are already there. But you'll be the one guy that says "well they had a big game vs KC....." and nobody is going to care.

I know you don't care. It means something. Their line hasn't been as bad as last year...except against the Viking's "atrocious" offensive line.

Not sure why you’re putting “atrocious” in quotes because I never said they are atrocious. You’re just putting words in my mouth. I honestly don’t think there is a huge change in last year. They could have had success in the run game last year IF we ran the ball. We hardly tried. I said that all last year. Nobody could tell me that we COULDNT effectively run the ball with cook and Murray. Sorry but I don’t care who is playing on the OL. They are too good to not succeed when given the chance. Flip didn’t give them many.

As for cousins, you’ve done it before dude. Regardless, you’ve found every possible avenue to blame cousins for anything that goes wrong.

I’ve never in my existence of being on this board seen a member be so obsessed with a player that he would go to no end to prove he isn’t a good player. The OL can’t block, it’s cousins fault. The defense puts us on a hole, it’s cousins fault. We miss a kick, it’s cousins fault. Anytime someone says, “well this guy didn’t do this”, you try and somehow find something that cousins did wrong to justify it. Yeah Kirk cousins makes mistakes too but man oh man, sometimes it’s not on him. Sometimes the OL is bad (more often than not), sometimes the D puts cousins in bad situations, sometimes even the great Diggs and thielen don’t do their job. Just be realistic. You’re going as far as talking up the OL now when overall, they haven’t been very good when it comes to pass blocking. Just because they run block well doesn’t mean that’s doing cousins any favors. It’s doing cook and mattison favors. Cousins still has to throw and the pass blocking, outside of O’Neill, is still very very poor. It’s ok to point the finger at someone else for once instead of getting all defensive and saying how bad cousins is and saying he’s the reason other players aren’t doing their job. It’s so tiring to read dude

[fiestavike]

The OL can’t block, it’s cousins fault. The defense puts us on a hole, it’s cousins fault. We miss a kick, it’s cousins fault. Anytime someone says, “well this guy didn’t do this”, you try and somehow find something that cousins did wrong to justify it. Yeah Kirk cousins makes mistakes too but man oh man, sometimes it’s not on him. Sometimes the OL is bad (more often than not), sometimes the D puts cousins in bad situations, sometimes even the great Diggs and thielen don’t do their job. Just be realistic. You’re going as far as talking up the OL now when overall, they haven’t been very good when it comes to pass blocking. Just because they run block well doesn’t mean that’s doing cousins any favors. It’s doing cook and mattison favors. Cousins still has to throw and the pass blocking, outside of O’Neill, is still very very poor. It’s ok to point the finger at someone else for once instead of getting all defensive and saying how bad cousins is and saying he’s the reason other players aren’t doing their job. It’s so tiring to read dude

This is not engaging in good faith.

[Pondering Her Percy]

The OL can’t block, it’s cousins fault. The defense puts us on a hole, it’s cousins fault. We miss a kick, it’s cousins fault. Anytime someone says, “well this guy didn’t do this”, you try and somehow find something that cousins did wrong to justify it. Yeah Kirk cousins makes mistakes too but man oh man, sometimes it’s not on him. Sometimes the OL is bad (more often than not), sometimes the D puts cousins in bad situations, sometimes even the great Diggs and thielen don’t do their job. Just be realistic. You’re going as far as talking up the OL now when overall, they haven’t been very good when it comes to pass blocking. Just because they run block well doesn’t mean that’s doing cousins any favors. It’s doing cook and mattison favors. Cousins still has to throw and the pass blocking, outside of O’Neill, is still very very poor. It’s ok to point the finger at someone else for once instead of getting all defensive and saying how bad cousins is and saying he’s the reason other players aren’t doing their job. It’s so tiring to read dude

This is not engaging in good faith.

I'm not trying to be an as# by any means. But let's be realistic here. It's tough to engage in conversation when we're talking about the OL and then he's chiming in saying Cousins this and Cousins that. Or the defense, or anything else. We could have a thread on here regarding special teams and somehow Cousins name will be brought up in it. I wish there was a tally on this board that registered how many times the name "Cousins" was typed. It's gotta be a record. Probably blows Ponders out of the water. I couldnt tell you the last time I saw someone defend the OL on this board as a whole. But we've now gotten to that point. Simply because they are run blocking well, which we were not referring to. It was the pass blocking.

O'Neill is an excellent pass blocker and is even blocking well in the run this year. Reiff is hit/miss. Kline has been decent. Bradbury and Elflein have been brutal in pass protection. From a pass blocking standpoint compared to last year, the only improvement I see is Kline. We've always had Reiff and O'Neill. Elflein is continuing to struggle. And Bradbury has been getting bullied. Maybe this OL is slightly better right now but it's not much. Especially the interior. Nobody expected Bradbury to be this bad in pass pro. Granted he's a rookie but he has really struggled. I think we really need to move Reiff to RT and O'Neill to LT but it's nothing they will do mid-year is my guess. Overall, this OL still needs to improve quite a bit. I said I liked the Kline signing when it happened because he was always a good pass protector outside of last season. But Bradbury and Elflein (and sometimes Reiff) are killing us in pass pro. Regardless, this OL is still an issue.

[StumpHunter]

Wow interesting stat DP! One, it proves this Stefanski/Kubiak combo knows what they are doing. Two, it shows just how bad of an OC Flip was

Flip is doing pretty good in Jacksonville for taking over the 31st best offense and starting a 6th round rookie at QB.

The biggest difference so far this year is a healthy Dalvin Cook and improved run blocking.

[StumpHunter]

This is not engaging in good faith.

I'm not trying to be an as# by any means. But let's be realistic here. It's tough to engage in conversation when we're talking about the OL and then he's chiming in saying Cousins this and Cousins that. Or the defense, or anything else. We could have a thread on here regarding special teams and somehow Cousins name will be brought up in it. I wish there was a tally on this board that registered how many times the name "Cousins" was typed. It's gotta be a record. Probably blows Ponders out of the water. I couldnt tell you the last time I saw someone defend the OL on this board as a whole. But we've now gotten to that point. Simply because they are run blocking well, which we were not referring to. It was the pass blocking.

O'Neill is an excellent pass blocker and is even blocking well in the run this year. Reiff is hit/miss. Kline has been decent. Bradbury and Elflein have been brutal in pass protection. From a pass blocking standpoint compared to last year, the only improvement I see is Kline. We've always had Reiff and O'Neill. Elflein is continuing to struggle. And Bradbury has been getting bullied. Maybe this OL is slightly better right now but it's not much. Especially the interior. Nobody expected Bradbury to be this bad in pass pro. Granted he's a rookie but he has really struggled. I think we really need to move Reiff to RT and O'Neill to LT but it's nothing they will do mid-year is my guess. Overall, this OL still needs to improve quite a bit. I said I liked the Kline signing when it happened because he was always a good pass protector outside of last season. But Bradbury and Elflein (and sometimes Reiff) are killing us in pass pro. Regardless, this OL is still an issue.

They have given up only 3 sacks this year and have the leading rusher. I don't think the Oline has been a significant issue so far.

It isn't a good enough line to stop the Bears from getting to Cousins, but it has been good enough for the first three games.

[dead_poet]

[
They have given up only 3 sacks this year and have the leading rusher. I don't think the Oline has been a significant issue so far.

It isn't a good enough line to stop the Bears from getting to Cousins, but it has been good enough for the first three games.

Prior to last week the Vikings allowed 0.49 pressures per dropback, second most only trailing the Dolphins (0.52). The 20 pressures allowed against Green Bay was also second to Miami’s 23, and the 0.57 pressures allowed per dropback against were the most from any team that week.

After week 3 he's still the fourth-most-pressured QB in the league.

https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/1 ... 40230?s=19

Pass protection is THE #1 issue on the Vikings and it's not close.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wow interesting stat DP! One, it proves this Stefanski/Kubiak combo knows what they are doing. Two, it shows just how bad of an OC Flip was

Flip is doing pretty good in Jacksonville for taking over the 31st best offense and starting a 6th round rookie at QB.

The biggest difference so far this year is a healthy Dalvin Cook and improved run blocking.

Pretty good? All they needed was a better QB than Blake Bortles. That’s not hard to find. They were the 31st best offense. You can’t get a whole lot worse than that. But they are still 23rd in total offense as well as 23rd in the run and one of the lowest rushing attempts in the nfl. Even with a backup QB.

Cook was healthy enough at points last year to be successful. And sure the run blocking is better but there are two new lineman this year compared to last. Kline is known for his pass blocking even though his run blocking has been decent. Bradbury helps the run. But at the same time, what works with cook is outside zone plays. And that’s right at Reiff/Elflein or Kline/O’Neill. One of those 4 are new guys. Bottom line is, this team could run last year and refused to. Flip wouldn’t adjust and refused to pound the ball. He’s doing the same on Jacksonville with a guy like Fournette.

What has improved is the offensive coordinator/play calling. Flip wasn’t committed to the run. If it didn’t work on the first few runs he was done for the game. Like I’ve said before, being down 21-0 to GB, cook would’ve been lucky to touch the ball 3-5 times the rest of the game. We didn’t bail on it though and it brought us back

[StumpHunter]

[
They have given up only 3 sacks this year and have the leading rusher. I don't think the Oline has been a significant issue so far.

It isn't a good enough line to stop the Bears from getting to Cousins, but it has been good enough for the first three games.

Prior to last week the Vikings allowed 0.49 pressures per dropback, second most only trailing the Dolphins (0.52). The 20 pressures allowed against Green Bay was also second to Miami’s 23, and the 0.57 pressures allowed per dropback against were the most from any team that week.

After week 3 he's still the fourth-most-pressured QB in the league.

https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/1 ... 40230?s=19

Pass protection is THE #1 issue on the Vikings and it's not close.

The #1 issue has been the QB. Let's look at the most pressured QBs and their times to throw on average, versus the least pressured:

Watson: 7th longest time to throw
Allen: 6th
Cousins 2nd
Mayfield: 3rd
Marriota: 5th

Wow, what a coincidence! Who would have thought holding the ball longer would increase the amount of pressure a QB would receive.

What about the top 5 least pressured?

Dak 8th longest
Brady 2nd shortest
Jimmy G 7th shortest
Derek Carr 5th shortest
Brisset 14th shortest
Mahomes 8th shortest
Dalton 6th shortest
Case 16th shortest
Ryan 19th shortest
Teddy 15th shortest

Hey look at that. The majority get rid of the ball quickly. Shocking.

Sure you have guys like Dak who can hold the ball forever and not get pressured, and it would be awesome to have a line that could protect that well. Of course Dak also does a good job of running away from where pressure would have come from and buying time, which would also be nice.

Edit: Just to be clear when I say Cousins was the issue I was only referring to the one game where the offense struggled. He was fine against the 28th and 29th ranked scoring defenses.

[CharVike]

Prior to last week the Vikings allowed 0.49 pressures per dropback, second most only trailing the Dolphins (0.52). The 20 pressures allowed against Green Bay was also second to Miami’s 23, and the 0.57 pressures allowed per dropback against were the most from any team that week.

After week 3 he's still the fourth-most-pressured QB in the league.

https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/1 ... 40230?s=19

Pass protection is THE #1 issue on the Vikings and it's not close.

The #1 issue has been the QB. Let's look at the most pressured QBs and their times to throw on average, versus the least pressured:

Watson: 7th longest time to throw
Allen: 6th
Cousins 2nd
Mayfield: 3rd
Marriota: 5th

Wow, what a coincidence! Who would have thought holding the ball longer would increase the amount of pressure a QB would receive.

What about the top 5 least pressured?

Dak 8th longest
Brady 2nd shortest
Jimmy G 7th shortest
Derek Carr 5th shortest
Brisset 14th shortest
Mahomes 8th shortest
Dalton 6th shortest
Case 16th shortest
Ryan 19th shortest
Teddy 15th shortest

Hey look at that. The majority get rid of the ball quickly. Shocking.

Sure you have guys like Dak who can hold the ball forever and not get pressured, and it would be awesome to have a line that could protect that well. Of course Dak also does a good job of running away from pressure and buying time, which would also be nice.

I don't understand these numbers at all. Dak don't get pressured but he dose a good job of running away from pressure. I don't watch every single NFL snap but I've seen Rodgers stand there with nothing around him. The closest guy was 8 yards away. He actually threw the ball to quickly. Could have burned the entire quarter up. I haven't seen Cousins get that type of protection yet. Come Sunday I want to see Kirk standing there surveying the entire field with nothing around him. Just waiting for a guy to get open deep. If Mack's playing he won't allow that. I haven't seen that yet.I'm expecting that Sunday. It looks to me that D Carr get's very little pressure. Is that correct?

[StumpHunter]

The #1 issue has been the QB. Let's look at the most pressured QBs and their times to throw on average, versus the least pressured:

Watson: 7th longest time to throw
Allen: 6th
Cousins 2nd
Mayfield: 3rd
Marriota: 5th

Wow, what a coincidence! Who would have thought holding the ball longer would increase the amount of pressure a QB would receive.

What about the top 5 least pressured?

Dak 8th longest
Brady 2nd shortest
Jimmy G 7th shortest
Derek Carr 5th shortest
Brisset 14th shortest
Mahomes 8th shortest
Dalton 6th shortest
Case 16th shortest
Ryan 19th shortest
Teddy 15th shortest

Hey look at that. The majority get rid of the ball quickly. Shocking.

Sure you have guys like Dak who can hold the ball forever and not get pressured, and it would be awesome to have a line that could protect that well. Of course Dak also does a good job of running away from pressure and buying time, which would also be nice.

I don't understand these numbers at all. Dak don't get pressured but he dose a good job of running away from pressure. I don't watch every single NFL snap but I've seen Rodgers stand there with nothing around him. The closest guy was 8 yards away. He actually threw the ball to quickly. Could have burned the entire quarter up. I haven't seen Cousins get that type of protection yet. Come Sunday I want to see Kirk standing there surveying the entire field with nothing around him. Just waiting for a guy to get open deep. If Mack's playing he won't allow that. I haven't seen that yet.I'm expecting that Sunday. It looks to me that D Carr get's very little pressure. Is that correct?

What is there to not understand about the numbers? QBs who hold the ball longer get pressured more than QBs who get rid of it quickly. That isn't complicated it is common sense.

I did update my Dak comment for clarity. Rodgers actually showed a great example of it in last night's game, escaping the pocket BEFORE getting pressured and throwing a TD to Graham.

[CharVike]

I don't understand these numbers at all. Dak don't get pressured but he dose a good job of running away from pressure. I don't watch every single NFL snap but I've seen Rodgers stand there with nothing around him. The closest guy was 8 yards away. He actually threw the ball to quickly. Could have burned the entire quarter up. I haven't seen Cousins get that type of protection yet. Come Sunday I want to see Kirk standing there surveying the entire field with nothing around him. Just waiting for a guy to get open deep. If Mack's playing he won't allow that. I haven't seen that yet.I'm expecting that Sunday. It looks to me that D Carr get's very little pressure. Is that correct?

What is there to not understand about the numbers? QBs who hold the ball longer get pressured more than QBs who get rid of it quickly. That isn't complicated it is common sense.

I did update my Dak comment for clarity. Rodgers actually showed a great example of it in last night's game, escaping the pocket BEFORE getting pressured and throwing a TD to Graham.

Based on common sense just throw quick slants all day and there will be no pressure. No sacks. Not much yardage either. What if a team has a game breaker like Moss for example the QB will need to let him run his route. Yes he's a 4.2 guy I guess but it still takes time for him to clear. Now a QB can just throw it as far as he can right off the bat. Guess what the WR won't be there. The QB needs to let him run his route. I seen Rodgers against us on the 1st pass play. He could have stood there all day. There was nothing around him. DL guys were on the ground. Why throw at that point? He needed to hold it longer for the TD strike. Don't you realize the route also plays a part in this? That's only common sense.