Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

[VikingsVictorious]

And his second season brought his average up. That is why it's an average. Maybe his third season will be the best representation of what to expect. 5-6 with very similar stats to Cousins.

Wentz had him beat in YPG, YPA, passer rating and TD % this past season. A season where he missed training camp.

His ceiling is higher and so is his floor. The two QBs are on completely different levels.

Whatever. Cousins beat him H2H, completion %, winning %, less games missed due to injury. Just get over it. Wentz has a higher potential I would agree. he is also more likely to not play full seasons. I would be happy with either of them as my QB. We got Cousins. It's all good. Quit whining about an above average QB whos a very good passer.

[StumpHunter]

I have to admit something, I plagiarized that post...



Now you can get credit for having this hot take.

hahahhaa clearly you have nothing better to do today!! Granted, that was said a few days after our 2017 season ended. A year and a half later, realizing how bad Keenum really is and how he couldnt be trusted, yeah my opinion clearly changed. Since you're so bored in front of your computer today, why dont you look closer to when free agency hit because I pushed for us to let Case walk and go with Cousins. But either way, congrats Stump, you dug up a post from 500 days ago that doesnt match what I'm saying today. Like I said before, opinions change. There wasnt a Viking fan in the world rooting for Case Keenum during that time given how our season was going. But in the end, I wanted him gone. And I know you can find plenty of posts regarding that.

You just "seriously questioned yourself on how you even look at a QB". I mean if you don't trust your own takes, how can we take anything you say seriously?

Wasn't 100% sold on Brady being a better option than Case...

[Pondering Her Percy]

lol by the looks of it, I'm not the only one thinking that way

Yep, you have a guy who thinks the Bradford trade was a good one who seems to be of that opinion too. Raptorman has done a better job of actually arguing the points I am making.

I know because I'm not "actually arguing your points" right? The amount of "points" you've made over the past month or so that I have proved to be false is turning into a long list. Others have done the same. You've went from Cousins record, to Cousins fumbling, to wanting Pat Mahomes, to Cousins contract being absurd to defending Teddy Bridgewater and so on. It's quite comical if you ask me. I can only imagine what you pull from the clouds next to somehow help your argument. I would think you're running out of options at this point.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You just "seriously questioned yourself on how you even look at a QB". I mean if you don't trust your own takes, how can we take anything you say seriously?

It was a take from a year and a half ago literally days after our 13-3 season ended. Opinion's change. The second I found out Cousins was hitting the market, I was saying Case should be let go. But I guess you can sit there and continue to question something I said a year and a half ago but sit here and defend Teddy Bridgewater of all QBs. And we're suppose to take what you say seriously?

Wasn't 100% sold on Brady being a better option than Case...

Never once did I say "I wasnt sold" on it. I was obviously referring to Brady's age and not knowing when he was going to retire. Clearly Brady is the better QB but twist it whatever way you want to make yourself look better. I mean I've posted over 6,600 times on this board and am the most active member on here since I've joined in 2012. I can guarantee I can go back and look at some stuff I posted in 2012 and probably laugh at myself. Most long time members could probably say the same. But again, whatever makes you look good!!

Either way, your posts are reeking of desperation. To the point where you have to attempt (not even knowing what you're going to find) to look at posts from a year and a half ago to try and prove someone wrong. No less, baiting them (by writing their post as your own) into disagreeing with their own opinion they dont even remember writing. WOW! Could you be any more desperate to prove Kirk Cousins wasnt worth it? Could you be more desperate to try and get someone to agree with you on here?? When you've put yourself in such a hole like you did with all your outlandish comments over the past month and lies regarding wanting Mahomes heading into the 2017 draft I'd be grasping for straws too lol.

[StumpHunter]

You just "seriously questioned yourself on how you even look at a QB". I mean if you don't trust your own takes, how can we take anything you say seriously?

It was a take from a year and a half ago literally days after our 13-3 season ended. Opinion's change. The second I found out Cousins was hitting the market, I was saying Case should be let go. But I guess you can sit there and continue to question something I said a year and a half ago but sit here and defend Teddy Bridgewater of all QBs. And we're suppose to take what you say seriously?

Wasn't 100% sold on Brady being a better option than Case...

Never once did I say "I wasnt sold" on it. I was obviously referring to Brady's age and not knowing when he was going to retire. Clearly Brady is the better QB but twist it whatever way you want to make yourself look better. I mean I've posted over 6,600 times on this board and am the most active member on here since I've joined in 2012. I can guarantee I can go back and look at some stuff I posted in 2012 and probably laugh at myself. Most long time members could probably say the same. But again, whatever makes you look good!!

Either way, your posts are reeking of desperation. To the point where you have to attempt (not even knowing what you're going to find) to look at posts from a year and a half ago to try and prove someone wrong. No less, baiting them (by writing their post as your own) into disagreeing with their own opinion they dont even remember writing. WOW! Could you be any more desperate to prove Kirk Cousins wasnt worth it? Could you be more desperate to try and get someone to agree with you on here?? When you've put yourself in such a hole like you did with all your outlandish comments over the past month and lies regarding wanting Mahomes heading into the 2017 draft I'd be grasping for straws too lol.

I knew exactly what I would find and didn't have to look far to find it.

It is fine you changed your opinion. It is your reaction to your own opinion that is the problem.

[Pondering Her Percy]

It was a take from a year and a half ago literally days after our 13-3 season ended. Opinion's change. The second I found out Cousins was hitting the market, I was saying Case should be let go. But I guess you can sit there and continue to question something I said a year and a half ago but sit here and defend Teddy Bridgewater of all QBs. And we're suppose to take what you say seriously?



Never once did I say "I wasnt sold" on it. I was obviously referring to Brady's age and not knowing when he was going to retire. Clearly Brady is the better QB but twist it whatever way you want to make yourself look better. I mean I've posted over 6,600 times on this board and am the most active member on here since I've joined in 2012. I can guarantee I can go back and look at some stuff I posted in 2012 and probably laugh at myself. Most long time members could probably say the same. But again, whatever makes you look good!!

Either way, your posts are reeking of desperation. To the point where you have to attempt (not even knowing what you're going to find) to look at posts from a year and a half ago to try and prove someone wrong. No less, baiting them (by writing their post as your own) into disagreeing with their own opinion they dont even remember writing. WOW! Could you be any more desperate to prove Kirk Cousins wasnt worth it? Could you be more desperate to try and get someone to agree with you on here?? When you've put yourself in such a hole like you did with all your outlandish comments over the past month and lies regarding wanting Mahomes heading into the 2017 draft I'd be grasping for straws too lol.

I knew exactly what I would find and didn't have to look far to find it.

It is fine you changed your opinion. It is your reaction to your own opinion that is the problem.

Lol you knew exactly what you’d find when you weren’t even on the board during that time? Ok dude, keep tooting your own horn. You were simply trying to find dirt because you’ve used just about any and every ridiculous avenue you could and have been proved wrong time and time again. And all it does is screams desperation. You’re better off waiting until season time before you bury yourself any deeper than you already have in regards to cousins. Even though I already feel like you’ll be hiding under a rock if he is performing at a high level and this team is playing well. Or make an excuse as to why we’re winning and that it has nothing to do with cousins. One of those two things is bound to happen. We’ll see soon enough.

[StumpHunter]

I knew exactly what I would find and didn't have to look far to find it.

It is fine you changed your opinion. It is your reaction to your own opinion that is the problem.

Lol you knew exactly what you’d find when you weren’t even on the board during that time? Ok dude, keep tooting your own horn. You were simply trying to find dirt because you’ve used just about any and every ridiculous avenue you could and have been proved wrong time and time again. And all it does is screams desperation. You’re better off waiting until season time before you bury yourself any deeper than you already have in regards to cousins. Even though I already feel like you’ll be hiding under a rock if he is performing at a high level and this team is playing well. Or make an excuse as to why we’re winning and that it has nothing to do with cousins. One of those two things is bound to happen. We’ll see soon enough.

Yep, knew exactly. Just like I knew I could easily get you to rip your own post, where most people would go "yea, I had that opinion too in 2017, but we know now he was just backup."

I have a whole thread about what it would take for me to want to extend Cousins.
http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/view ... =1&t=37429

What would it take for you to want to draft his replacement/extend/wait and see with Cousins? You seem concerned about people moving the goalpost, but i don't see you making any definitive comments on what a successful Cousins season is.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Lol you knew exactly what you’d find when you weren’t even on the board during that time? Ok dude, keep tooting your own horn. You were simply trying to find dirt because you’ve used just about any and every ridiculous avenue you could and have been proved wrong time and time again. And all it does is screams desperation. You’re better off waiting until season time before you bury yourself any deeper than you already have in regards to cousins. Even though I already feel like you’ll be hiding under a rock if he is performing at a high level and this team is playing well. Or make an excuse as to why we’re winning and that it has nothing to do with cousins. One of those two things is bound to happen. We’ll see soon enough.

Yep, knew exactly. Just like I knew I could easily get you to rip your own post, where most people would go "yea, I had that opinion too in 2017, but we know now he was just backup."

I have a whole thread about what it would take for me to want to extend Cousins.
http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/view ... =1&t=37429

What would it take for you to want to draft his replacement/extend/wait and see with Cousins? You seem concerned about people moving the goalpost, but i don't see you making any definitive comments on what a successful Cousins season is.

lol you didnt know. And I could tell you that he was a stop gap back then. However, we had no QB going into the following season. When better QBs like Cousins hit the market, Case was an after thought. I made that very clear heading into free agency last year. But that doesnt matter right because it doesnt help your argument. Like I said, keep tooting your own horn, whatever makes you feel good dude.

And given how many conversations I've had with you on Cousins, I'm simply coming from a realistic standpoint where you just want to base everything off record and point the finger at the QB. If we're running the ball well, if our OL is playing well and our defense is playing well but Kirk Cousins isnt performing, then clearly that's a problem. But again, there are so many factors that our final record depends on. Not just Kirk Cousins. If he is not playing well I have no problem saying it. I have said it for a few games this year. But when you're putting up 31 points and lost or if you make 2 clutch plays to take a game to OT just to tie because your kicker blew the game, then that's really not on the QB if you ask me. Or if your OC actually provided some balance in your offense. The list goes on. You could say Cousins could have played better week 17 too. But it's going to be how the TEAM performs. Hypothetically, If the defense tanks to the bottom of the league but the offense is top 5 in the league and we miss the playoffs is that on Kirk Cousins? I sure hope not. I'm sure you would still be calling him a bad signing because of record but a situation like that is not on the QB.

My whole point is, there are a lot of ways to be successful and there are a lot of ways to be unsuccessful from a team and individual player point of view. There are so many things that can happen in one season. You really cant predict a scenario. Attempting to do that is harder to predict than predicting who we're going to draft. Think about last year. If I told guys we wouldnt make the playoffs, Tony Sparano is going to pass away, Griff will go AWOL, Flip will flop as an OC and be fired after week 14, Dalvin Cook will hardly touch the ball, we'll cut our rookie kicker after week 2 and so on, you guys would be calling me crazy. You just have to wait until the season gets here.

[StumpHunter]

Yep, knew exactly. Just like I knew I could easily get you to rip your own post, where most people would go "yea, I had that opinion too in 2017, but we know now he was just backup."

I have a whole thread about what it would take for me to want to extend Cousins.
http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/view ... =1&t=37429

What would it take for you to want to draft his replacement/extend/wait and see with Cousins? You seem concerned about people moving the goalpost, but i don't see you making any definitive comments on what a successful Cousins season is.

lol you didnt know. And I could tell you that he was a stop gap back then. However, we had no QB going into the following season. When better QBs like Cousins hit the market, Case was an after thought. I made that very clear heading into free agency last year. But that doesnt matter right because it doesnt help your argument. Like I said, keep tooting your own horn, whatever makes you feel good dude.

And given how many conversations I've had with you on Cousins, I'm simply coming from a realistic standpoint where you just want to base everything off record and point the finger at the QB. If we're running the ball well, if our OL is playing well and our defense is playing well but Kirk Cousins isnt performing, then clearly that's a problem. But again, there are so many factors that our final record depends on. Not just Kirk Cousins. If he is not playing well I have no problem saying it. I have said it for a few games this year. But when you're putting up 31 points and lost or if you make 2 clutch plays to take a game to OT just to tie because your kicker blew the game, then that's really not on the QB if you ask me. Or if your OC actually provided some balance in your offense. The list goes on. You could say Cousins could have played better week 17 too. But it's going to be how the TEAM performs. Hypothetically, If the defense tanks to the bottom of the league but the offense is top 5 in the league and we miss the playoffs is that on Kirk Cousins? I sure hope not. I'm sure you would still be calling him a bad signing because of record but a situation like that is not on the QB.

My whole point is, there are a lot of ways to be successful and there are a lot of ways to be unsuccessful from a team and individual player point of view. There are so many things that can happen in one season. You really cant predict a scenario. Attempting to do that is harder to predict than predicting who we're going to draft. Think about last year. If I told guys we wouldnt make the playoffs, Tony Sparano is going to pass away, Griff will go AWOL, Flip will flop as an OC and be fired after week 14, Dalvin Cook will hardly touch the ball, we'll cut our rookie kicker after week 2 and so on, you guys would be calling me crazy. You just have to wait until the season gets here.

All I read from this is that it doesn't matter what happens next season, you would like to reserve the right to argue Cousins was the right move. Or in other words, you want to be able to move the goal post and give excuses for another failed season, if that indeed happens again.

[Pondering Her Percy]

lol you didnt know. And I could tell you that he was a stop gap back then. However, we had no QB going into the following season. When better QBs like Cousins hit the market, Case was an after thought. I made that very clear heading into free agency last year. But that doesnt matter right because it doesnt help your argument. Like I said, keep tooting your own horn, whatever makes you feel good dude.

And given how many conversations I've had with you on Cousins, I'm simply coming from a realistic standpoint where you just want to base everything off record and point the finger at the QB. If we're running the ball well, if our OL is playing well and our defense is playing well but Kirk Cousins isnt performing, then clearly that's a problem. But again, there are so many factors that our final record depends on. Not just Kirk Cousins. If he is not playing well I have no problem saying it. I have said it for a few games this year. But when you're putting up 31 points and lost or if you make 2 clutch plays to take a game to OT just to tie because your kicker blew the game, then that's really not on the QB if you ask me. Or if your OC actually provided some balance in your offense. The list goes on. You could say Cousins could have played better week 17 too. But it's going to be how the TEAM performs. Hypothetically, If the defense tanks to the bottom of the league but the offense is top 5 in the league and we miss the playoffs is that on Kirk Cousins? I sure hope not. I'm sure you would still be calling him a bad signing because of record but a situation like that is not on the QB.

My whole point is, there are a lot of ways to be successful and there are a lot of ways to be unsuccessful from a team and individual player point of view. There are so many things that can happen in one season. You really cant predict a scenario. Attempting to do that is harder to predict than predicting who we're going to draft. Think about last year. If I told guys we wouldnt make the playoffs, Tony Sparano is going to pass away, Griff will go AWOL, Flip will flop as an OC and be fired after week 14, Dalvin Cook will hardly touch the ball, we'll cut our rookie kicker after week 2 and so on, you guys would be calling me crazy. You just have to wait until the season gets here.

All I read from this is that it doesn't matter what happens next season, you would like to reserve the right to argue Cousins was the right move. Or in other words, you want to be able to move the goal post and give excuses for another failed season, if that indeed happens again.

Yup because Kirk Cousins is why this was a failed seasonp Your hate for cousins runs as deep as it gets. It doesn’t matter what he does, you’ll always find a way to twist and turn it because you’ve already said so much. You’d have a stomach full of crow shi# if this team does damage this year or next. But again, you’ll somehow find a way to say Cousins didn’t do this or Cousins didn’t do that. You’re the definition of a cousins hater through and through and no matter what he does, it will never change your mind. So be it, but I’ll have my eyes wide open when he proves you wrong.

[StumpHunter]

All I read from this is that it doesn't matter what happens next season, you would like to reserve the right to argue Cousins was the right move. Or in other words, you want to be able to move the goal post and give excuses for another failed season, if that indeed happens again.

Yup because Kirk Cousins is why this was a failed seasonp Your hate for cousins runs as deep as it gets. It doesn’t matter what he does, you’ll always find a way to twist and turn it because you’ve already said so much. You’d have a stomach full of crow shi# if this team does damage this year or next. But again, you’ll somehow find a way to say Cousins didn’t do this or Cousins didn’t do that. You’re the definition of a cousins hater through and through and no matter what he does, it will never change your mind. So be it, but I’ll have my eyes wide open when he proves you wrong.

He wasn't THE reason for the failed season, he was just one of the reasons.

For his signing to be a success he has to be a reason for the success of a successful season.

That isn't hating Cousins, that is being a fan who holds his team accountable instead of loving every move they make, good or bad.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yup because Kirk Cousins is why this was a failed seasonp Your hate for cousins runs as deep as it gets. It doesn’t matter what he does, you’ll always find a way to twist and turn it because you’ve already said so much. You’d have a stomach full of crow shi# if this team does damage this year or next. But again, you’ll somehow find a way to say Cousins didn’t do this or Cousins didn’t do that. You’re the definition of a cousins hater through and through and no matter what he does, it will never change your mind. So be it, but I’ll have my eyes wide open when he proves you wrong.

He wasn't THE reason for the failed season, he was just one of the reasons.

For his signing to be a success he has to be a reason for the success of a successful season.

That isn't hating Cousins, that is being a fan who holds his team accountable instead of loving every move they make, good or bad.

No what you do is hold Kirk Cousins accountable. Not the TEAM. Because if you held the TEAM accountable, then you would understand where myself and others are coming from when discussing last season. I've already laid out the laundry list of factors that affected this past season. You've ignored those and solely focused on Kirk Cousins and "his" record. That is the difference.

[StumpHunter]

He wasn't THE reason for the failed season, he was just one of the reasons.

For his signing to be a success he has to be a reason for the success of a successful season.

That isn't hating Cousins, that is being a fan who holds his team accountable instead of loving every move they make, good or bad.

No what you do is hold Kirk Cousins accountable. Not the TEAM. Because if you held the TEAM accountable, then you would understand where myself and others are coming from when discussing last season. I've already laid out the laundry list of factors that affected this past season. You've ignored those and solely focused on Kirk Cousins and "his" record. That is the difference.

I have commented on the line and OC. It is just when I say things about them, no one accuses me of saying they were solely responsible for the failure of the team and gets all emotional about them.

[VikingsVictorious]

No what you do is hold Kirk Cousins accountable. Not the TEAM. Because if you held the TEAM accountable, then you would understand where myself and others are coming from when discussing last season. I've already laid out the laundry list of factors that affected this past season. You've ignored those and solely focused on Kirk Cousins and "his" record. That is the difference.

I have commented on the line and OC. It is just when I say things about them, no one accuses me of saying they were solely responsible for the failure of the team and gets all emotional about them.

The simple fact of the matter is that Cousins on the whole played well. He was a better than average QB and a very good passer. He was not part of the problem he was part of the solution.

[StumpHunter]

I have commented on the line and OC. It is just when I say things about them, no one accuses me of saying they were solely responsible for the failure of the team and gets all emotional about them.

The simple fact of the matter is that Cousins on the whole played well. He was a better than average QB and a very good passer. He was not part of the problem he was part of the solution.

Except for against the Bears x 2, Seattle, NO, Buffalo and NE, I would agree that he helped the team win more than he helped them lose.