Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

[Raptorman]

Dude that argument carries zero weight. Do you realize how many coaches talked up their first or second year QB saying how they could become a better passer in a few years and they ended up flopping? That’s like Rex Ryan saying mark Sanchez has a chance to become a good passer in this league. Yeah some might do that but others don’t and it sure doesn’t look good.....at all for Jackson

What the coaching staff and management feel about the QB holds a lot more weight than your opinion.

No coach or GM is going to bet their career on a QB with no potential. They will trade them to Miami for a late second before they do that.

Words to remember when talking about Cousins.

[Raptorman]

Wentz who has had one healthy losing season in his NFL career one extremely good, but injured season, and another losing injury shortened season, just signed a 4 year extension for $128 million $107 million guaranteed. QBs are expensive. I know he has lot's of potential, but his health record is very questionable at this point. His per game stats last year were very similar to Cousins, but he was available 5 less games and had a losing record. He also lost his H2H matchup with Cousins. The gamble here is extreme. I know many would take that shot. I think any honest person is going to realize that Cousins contract in todays market is not excessive for a good QB. I think the preponderance of the evidence points to him being a good QB.

Well, Philly is screwed. they gave him more than Cousins. $32 million a year. $107 million guaranteed! They won't be able to sign anyone. They fell into the "Cousins" trap. BTW, I believe that will take Cousins out of top 5 QB's in pay next year. Next up, Cam Newton and Jared Goff. By this time next year Cousins $31 million might put in in 9-10.

[Pondering Her Percy]

What the coaching staff and management feel about the QB holds a lot more weight than your opinion.

No coach or GM is going to bet their career on a QB with no potential. They will trade them to Miami for a late second before they do that.

Words to remember when talking about Cousins.

Touché sir, touché!!

[StumpHunter]

What the coaching staff and management feel about the QB holds a lot more weight than your opinion.

No coach or GM is going to bet their career on a QB with no potential. They will trade them to Miami for a late second before they do that.

Words to remember when talking about Cousins.

When Rick talks about Cousins stats not mattering last year and that in the end, it is all about winning, that is pretty much in line with what I have been sayin all season, so.....

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wentz who has had one healthy losing season in his NFL career one extremely good, but injured season, and another losing injury shortened season, just signed a 4 year extension for $128 million $107 million guaranteed. QBs are expensive. I know he has lot's of potential, but his health record is very questionable at this point. His per game stats last year were very similar to Cousins, but he was available 5 less games and had a losing record. He also lost his H2H matchup with Cousins. The gamble here is extreme. I know many would take that shot. I think any honest person is going to realize that Cousins contract in todays market is not excessive for a good QB. I think the preponderance of the evidence points to him being a good QB.

Well, Philly is screwed. they gave him more than Cousins. $32 million a year. $107 million guaranteed! They won't be able to sign anyone. They fell into the "Cousins" trap. BTW, I believe that will take Cousins out of top 5 QB's in pay next year. Next up, Cam Newton and Jared Goff. By this time next year Cousins $31 million might put in in 9-10.

Exactly I’ve said this since Cousins got his contract that just because he was top 3 paid at the position doesn’t mean anything. Joe Flacco was once the highest paid at the position. It doesn’t mean he’s the best QB in the nfl. There are almost 2-3 QBs a year that end up being the highest paid in the league. Just wait until Goff, Mahomes, Watson and Mayfield roll around. Mahomes is going to make Cousins contract look like vet minimum. I always say this market is about leverage. There is always a new highest paid QB every year. It means nothing because the next guy in line is always going to be aiming to beat the current top paid guy.

And as for the example stump used with Tom Brady taking a cut.....I guess everyone should learn from him since no other QB takes a cut other than Brady himself. You make it sound like Cousins is selfish for taking $84 mill when literally every other QB out there outside of Brady is doing the same thing. No less cousins took less to sign with us. The jets were offering $90 mill. That’s just the way the QB market goes. Everyone thought Flacco’s contract was crazy in 2016 and that contract would be ranked 13th right now among QBs if he just took it right now. He was once number one just 3 years ago. 12 other QBs passed him in three years. Hell Case Keenum nearly took the amount Flacco did in 2016 just last year. Could anyone imagine case Keenum being one of the highest paid QBs in the nfl? I sure can’t.

So in the end, guys need to get over Cousins contract. The top 6 highest paid QBs last year didn’t make the playoffs. SIX! It’s just the way the market goes. Simple as that

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wentz who has had one healthy losing season in his NFL career one extremely good, but injured season, and another losing injury shortened season, just signed a 4 year extension for $128 million $107 million guaranteed. QBs are expensive. I know he has lot's of potential, but his health record is very questionable at this point. His per game stats last year were very similar to Cousins, but he was available 5 less games and had a losing record. He also lost his H2H matchup with Cousins. The gamble here is extreme. I know many would take that shot. I think any honest person is going to realize that Cousins contract in todays market is not excessive for a good QB. I think the preponderance of the evidence points to him being a good QB.

Well, Philly is screwed. they gave him more than Cousins. $32 million a year. $107 million guaranteed! They won't be able to sign anyone. They fell into the "Cousins" trap. BTW, I believe that will take Cousins out of top 5 QB's in pay next year. Next up, Cam Newton and Jared Goff. By this time next year Cousins $31 million might put in in 9-10.

Exactly I’ve said this since Cousins got his contract that just because he was top 3 paid at the position doesn’t mean anything. Joe Flacco was once the highest paid at the position. It doesn’t mean he’s the best QB in the nfl. There are almost 2-3 QBs a year that end up being the highest paid in the league. Just wait until Goff, Mahomes, Watson and Mayfield roll around. Mahomes is going to make Cousins contract look like vet minimum. I always say this market is about leverage. There is always a new highest paid QB every year. It means nothing because the next guy in line is always going to be aiming to beat the current top paid guy.

And as for the example stump used with Tom Brady taking a cut.....I guess everyone should learn from him since no other QB takes a cut other than Brady himself. You make it sound like Cousins is selfish for taking $84 mill when literally every other QB out there outside of Brady is doing the same thing. No less cousins took less to sign with us. The jets were offering $90 mill. That’s just the way the QB market goes. Everyone thought Flacco’s contract was crazy in 2016 and that contract would be ranked 13th right now among QBs if he just took it right now. He was once number one just 3 years ago. 12 other QBs passed him in three years. Hell Case Keenum nearly took the amount Flacco did in 2016 just last year. Could anyone imagine case Keenum being one of the highest paid QBs in the nfl? I sure can’t.

So in the end, guys need to get over Cousins contract. The top 6 highest paid QBs last year didn’t make the playoffs. SIX! It’s just the way the market goes. Simple as that

[StumpHunter]

Wentz who has had one healthy losing season in his NFL career one extremely good, but injured season, and another losing injury shortened season, just signed a 4 year extension for $128 million $107 million guaranteed. QBs are expensive. I know he has lot's of potential, but his health record is very questionable at this point. His per game stats last year were very similar to Cousins, but he was available 5 less games and had a losing record. He also lost his H2H matchup with Cousins. The gamble here is extreme. I know many would take that shot. I think any honest person is going to realize that Cousins contract in todays market is not excessive for a good QB. I think the preponderance of the evidence points to him being a good QB.

Well, Philly is screwed. they gave him more than Cousins. $32 million a year. $107 million guaranteed! They won't be able to sign anyone. They fell into the "Cousins" trap. BTW, I believe that will take Cousins out of top 5 QB's in pay next year. Next up, Cam Newton and Jared Goff. By this time next year Cousins $31 million might put in in 9-10.

Couple of things. Even if Goff, Cam and Wentz were all making more than 31 million next season against the cap (which is actually pretty unlikely), it still wouldn't push Cousins to 9-10.

Also, Wentz's contract is actually a 6 year deal when just looking at the cap, and he will be making around 25 million per. For Wentz it is a 4 year extension, for the team and their capologist, it amounts to 154.7 over 6 years. So, since the Eagles have 22 million in cap space left this season so I assume they will have at least 10 million of his signing bonus count against the cap this season, maybe more, lowering that 104 million extension to 94. The ability to do this kind of cap manipulation is another reason to draft your franchise QB and not try to buy one. It is also the reason no team besides the Vikings have ever fully guaranteed a massive contract like Cousin's, limiting their wiggle room within the contract..

[StumpHunter]

So in the end, guys need to get over Cousins contract. The top 6 highest paid QBs last year didn’t make the playoffs. SIX! It’s just the way the market goes. Simple as that

This is one of the best arguments for not overpaying QBs I have read.

[Raptorman]

Well, Philly is screwed. they gave him more than Cousins. $32 million a year. $107 million guaranteed! They won't be able to sign anyone. They fell into the "Cousins" trap. BTW, I believe that will take Cousins out of top 5 QB's in pay next year. Next up, Cam Newton and Jared Goff. By this time next year Cousins $31 million might put in in 9-10.

Exactly I’ve said this since Cousins got his contract that just because he was top 3 paid at the position doesn’t mean anything. Joe Flacco was once the highest paid at the position. It doesn’t mean he’s the best QB in the nfl. There are almost 2-3 QBs a year that end up being the highest paid in the league. Just wait until Goff, Mahomes, Watson and Mayfield roll around. Mahomes is going to make Cousins contract look like vet minimum. I always say this market is about leverage. There is always a new highest paid QB every year. It means nothing because the next guy in line is always going to be aiming to beat the current top paid guy.

And as for the example stump used with Tom Brady taking a cut.....I guess everyone should learn from him since no other QB takes a cut other than Brady himself. You make it sound like Cousins is selfish for taking $84 mill when literally every other QB out there outside of Brady is doing the same thing. No less cousins took less to sign with us. The jets were offering $90 mill. That’s just the way the QB market goes. Everyone thought Flacco’s contract was crazy in 2016 and that contract would be ranked 13th right now among QBs if he just took it right now. He was once number one just 3 years ago. 12 other QBs passed him in three years. Hell Case Keenum nearly took the amount Flacco did in 2016 just last year. Could anyone imagine case Keenum being one of the highest paid QBs in the nfl? I sure can’t.

So in the end, guys need to get over Cousins contract. The top 6 highest paid QBs last year didn’t make the playoffs. SIX! It’s just the way the market goes. Simple as that

First, Brady never took a cut. He restructured several times to give the team more cap room. Second, Brady has never as far as I know ever been the highest paid QB. He has not demanded the top dollar that other QB's have. His average pay for the last 14 years is just under $14 million a year and has never been over $20 million for any one year. His cap hits don't show that, but his cash earnings do. Overall he has probably given up $60 to $100 million in pay that he could have had if he asked for top dollar. He is the anomaly among football players. Of course, it helps that he has a wife that makes good money. Plus wise investments early on made him set for life. So he didn't need to keep asking for more money.

What I am hopeful for is that Cousins looks at the Brady model and instead of going for the top dollar in his next contract he takes less to make sure the team has money for other players. Since he took less to come to the Vikings in the first place, maybe, just maybe he will take less in the future.

[StumpHunter]

What the coaching staff and management feel about the QB holds a lot more weight than your opinion.

No coach or GM is going to bet their career on a QB with no potential. They will trade them to Miami for a late second before they do that.

Hahaha the one and only example in Josh Rosen (a QB not even drafted by their current coach) is what you bring up. No less what are the chances your rookie QB is so bad that you land the #1 overall pick going into his 2nd year.

And you completely missed my point....every GM and coaching staff out there thinks their first round QB has potential because they drafted them, why wouldn’t they stand behind him. Like I said, your argument carries zero weight. Lamar Jackson isn’t a good QB. Period

You don't have to "dig deep" to find Paxton Lynch as another example. Brady Quinn is another. Tebow is another.

I get that you desperately don't want Jackson to work out, because I am the same way. If Jackson becomes a good QB, it will be very difficult to follow my favorite team knowing that for two years straight, they missed out on a franchise QB because they overpaid for a Vet QB. I too hope Jackson sucks, but I won't pretend like I know he isn't going to get better at passing the football, or that he didn't help his team make the playoffs as a rookie.

[Pondering Her Percy]

So in the end, guys need to get over Cousins contract. The top 6 highest paid QBs last year didn’t make the playoffs. SIX! It’s just the way the market goes. Simple as that

This is one of the best arguments for not overpaying QBs I have read.

Lol there ya go again. That’s what you take from that post. You can’t just not pay a QB big money. Having case at $2 million last year was a luxury. Case Keenum got nearly $20 million and where is he now? You can’t just shy away from the market and not make a decision on one of the most important positions on the field. And yeah even if you draft a rookie, you still have to go through paying him eventually if he ends up being good. Guys like Wentz, Goff, Mahomes, Watson, Newton, etc haven’t won a SB yet either. But they are still going to get paid. Do you think you could just offer a good QB $15 mill a year and he’s going to take that? It’s not in the GM/coaches hands nearly as much as it’s in the players hands. They are going to demand what they demand. And THEN if you want them that bad, you offer them the money.

Bottom line is, if you want a good QB, you have to pay him money. And it’s usually big money and it usually resets the market. That’s what cousins did, and cousins will work his way down the line as more QBs get paid like Wentz just did. That’s today’s nfl. I’m not sure what you expect for a QB when it comes to money. If you have a good QB, you have to pay him big money. Period

[StumpHunter]

Exactly I’ve said this since Cousins got his contract that just because he was top 3 paid at the position doesn’t mean anything. Joe Flacco was once the highest paid at the position. It doesn’t mean he’s the best QB in the nfl. There are almost 2-3 QBs a year that end up being the highest paid in the league. Just wait until Goff, Mahomes, Watson and Mayfield roll around. Mahomes is going to make Cousins contract look like vet minimum. I always say this market is about leverage. There is always a new highest paid QB every year. It means nothing because the next guy in line is always going to be aiming to beat the current top paid guy.

And as for the example stump used with Tom Brady taking a cut.....I guess everyone should learn from him since no other QB takes a cut other than Brady himself. You make it sound like Cousins is selfish for taking $84 mill when literally every other QB out there outside of Brady is doing the same thing. No less cousins took less to sign with us. The jets were offering $90 mill. That’s just the way the QB market goes. Everyone thought Flacco’s contract was crazy in 2016 and that contract would be ranked 13th right now among QBs if he just took it right now. He was once number one just 3 years ago. 12 other QBs passed him in three years. Hell Case Keenum nearly took the amount Flacco did in 2016 just last year. Could anyone imagine case Keenum being one of the highest paid QBs in the nfl? I sure can’t.

So in the end, guys need to get over Cousins contract. The top 6 highest paid QBs last year didn’t make the playoffs. SIX! It’s just the way the market goes. Simple as that

First, Brady never took a cut. He restructured several times to give the team more cap room. Second, Brady has never as far as I know ever been the highest paid QB. He has not demanded the top dollar that other QB's have. His average pay for the last 14 years is just under $14 million a year and has never been over $20 million for any one year. His cap hits don't show that, but his cash earnings do. Overall he has probably given up $60 to $100 million in pay that he could have had if he asked for top dollar. He is the anomaly among football players. Of course, it helps that he has a wife that makes good money. Plus wise investments early on made him set for life. So he didn't need to keep asking for more money.

What I am hopeful for is that Cousins looks at the Brady model and instead of going for the top dollar in his next contract he takes less to make sure the team has money for other players. Since he took less to come to the Vikings in the first place, maybe, just maybe he will take less in the future.

None of this is relevant. The fact he felt he needed to take less money so his team could win a Super Bowl is all that matters. 20+ million is A LOT of money no matter who you are, and he wouldn't have passed on it if he didn't think it helped his chances of wining dramatically.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Exactly I’ve said this since Cousins got his contract that just because he was top 3 paid at the position doesn’t mean anything. Joe Flacco was once the highest paid at the position. It doesn’t mean he’s the best QB in the nfl. There are almost 2-3 QBs a year that end up being the highest paid in the league. Just wait until Goff, Mahomes, Watson and Mayfield roll around. Mahomes is going to make Cousins contract look like vet minimum. I always say this market is about leverage. There is always a new highest paid QB every year. It means nothing because the next guy in line is always going to be aiming to beat the current top paid guy.

And as for the example stump used with Tom Brady taking a cut.....I guess everyone should learn from him since no other QB takes a cut other than Brady himself. You make it sound like Cousins is selfish for taking $84 mill when literally every other QB out there outside of Brady is doing the same thing. No less cousins took less to sign with us. The jets were offering $90 mill. That’s just the way the QB market goes. Everyone thought Flacco’s contract was crazy in 2016 and that contract would be ranked 13th right now among QBs if he just took it right now. He was once number one just 3 years ago. 12 other QBs passed him in three years. Hell Case Keenum nearly took the amount Flacco did in 2016 just last year. Could anyone imagine case Keenum being one of the highest paid QBs in the nfl? I sure can’t.

So in the end, guys need to get over Cousins contract. The top 6 highest paid QBs last year didn’t make the playoffs. SIX! It’s just the way the market goes. Simple as that

First, Brady never took a cut. He restructured several times to give the team more cap room. Second, Brady has never as far as I know ever been the highest paid QB. He has not demanded the top dollar that other QB's have. His average pay for the last 14 years is just under $14 million a year and has never been over $20 million for any one year. His cap hits don't show that, but his cash earnings do. Overall he has probably given up $60 to $100 million in pay that he could have had if he asked for top dollar. He is the anomaly among football players. Of course, it helps that he has a wife that makes good money. Plus wise investments early on made him set for life. So he didn't need to keep asking for more money.

What I am hopeful for is that Cousins looks at the Brady model and instead of going for the top dollar in his next contract he takes less to make sure the team has money for other players. Since he took less to come to the Vikings in the first place, maybe, just maybe he will take less in the future.

Right. Brady is one of the only ones to do what he did. Probably the only one. So to act like cousins is being selfish for what he did and what he got, is pretty ridiculous. Because nobody does that....except Tom Brady

[StumpHunter]

This is one of the best arguments for not overpaying QBs I have read.

Lol there ya go again. That’s what you take from that post. You can’t just not pay a QB big money. Having case at $2 million last year was a luxury. Case Keenum got nearly $20 million and where is he now? You can’t just shy away from the market and not make a decision on one of the most important positions on the field. And yeah even if you draft a rookie, you still have to go through paying him eventually if he ends up being good. Guys like Wentz, Goff, Mahomes, Watson, Newton, etc haven’t won a SB yet either. But they are still going to get paid. Do you think you could just offer a good QB $15 mill a year and he’s going to take that? It’s not in the GM/coaches hands nearly as much as it’s in the players hands. They are going to demand what they demand. And THEN if you want them that bad, you offer them the money.

Bottom line is, if you want a good QB, you have to pay him money. And it’s usually big money and it usually resets the market. That’s what cousins did, and cousins will work his way down the line as more QBs get paid like Wentz just did. That’s today’s nfl. I’m not sure what you expect for a QB when it comes to money. If you have a good QB, you have to pay him big money. Period

Bottom line is, if you want a franchise QB you draft one. The market for QBs is inflated, and if you have a great QB you have to pay them a lot...eventually. For a few years though, you get incredibly cheap, good QB play and it allows you a short window at winning the SB. Like Philly was in until this season, LA is in now and what KC is in.

[Pondering Her Percy]

First, Brady never took a cut. He restructured several times to give the team more cap room. Second, Brady has never as far as I know ever been the highest paid QB. He has not demanded the top dollar that other QB's have. His average pay for the last 14 years is just under $14 million a year and has never been over $20 million for any one year. His cap hits don't show that, but his cash earnings do. Overall he has probably given up $60 to $100 million in pay that he could have had if he asked for top dollar. He is the anomaly among football players. Of course, it helps that he has a wife that makes good money. Plus wise investments early on made him set for life. So he didn't need to keep asking for more money.

What I am hopeful for is that Cousins looks at the Brady model and instead of going for the top dollar in his next contract he takes less to make sure the team has money for other players. Since he took less to come to the Vikings in the first place, maybe, just maybe he will take less in the future.

None of this is relevant. The fact he felt he needed to take less money so his team could win a Super Bowl is all that matters. 20+ million is A LOT of money no matter who you are, and he wouldn't have passed on it if he didn't think it helped his chances of wining dramatically.

Well good for Tom Brady. But that's not how the rest of the NFL works. I'm not sure why you think Cousins should do that when nobody else in the NFL does. Contracts of Cousins size are expected in today's NFL and they are just going to continue to get higher. Like I said, Mahomes' contract will make Cousins' look like veteran minimum. And there are going to be plenty more before Mahomes' contract hits.