Zeitler trade

[StumpHunter]

For those who think the Vikings didn't make a play for Kevin Zeitler ...



More at the link.

Wow just saw this. I was ticked that Spielman didnt try and trade for Zeitler but I guess he did. Typical Browns move though. Pass on Griffen (even though he had some mental issues going on) for that gigantic FA bust Vernon. The guy is completely invisible vs the run and a one trick pony. In the heart of his career, Brian Robison was averaging 7-9 sacks per year. That's what Vernon is doing. He's a good pass rusher but not a great one, but that's about it. Vernon has broke 8 or more sacks 2 times in 7 years (one year was only 8.5). Griffen has done it 5 times in 9 years. Probably would have been 6 if he played all year this year. Damn thats annoying. I would have been all for that deal. The giants raped the Browns in that trade.

Yea, it was a bad trade for the Browns and made very little sense to me...until the Beckham deal happened. Maybe this ended up being the first part of a 2 part trade in the end? I don't know why they would have broken it up, but Vernon at 31 million over two years? Zietler's contract was bad, but not that bad.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wow just saw this. I was ticked that Spielman didnt try and trade for Zeitler but I guess he did. Typical Browns move though. Pass on Griffen (even though he had some mental issues going on) for that gigantic FA bust Vernon. The guy is completely invisible vs the run and a one trick pony. In the heart of his career, Brian Robison was averaging 7-9 sacks per year. That's what Vernon is doing. He's a good pass rusher but not a great one, but that's about it. Vernon has broke 8 or more sacks 2 times in 7 years (one year was only 8.5). Griffen has done it 5 times in 9 years. Probably would have been 6 if he played all year this year. Damn thats annoying. I would have been all for that deal. The giants raped the Browns in that trade.

Yea, it was a bad trade for the Browns and made very little sense to me...until the Beckham deal happened. Maybe this ended up being the first part of a 2 part trade in the end? I don't know why they would have broken it up, but Vernon at 31 million over two years? Zietler's contract was bad, but not that bad.

Yeah Vernon's contract was a joke. And honestly, I think the Giants even won the Beckham deal. He's a problem on the field even though he's an elite player. There have been times where he has hurt his team more than helped it. The antics on the sidelines, battles with coaches, etc. No less days before the deal, the Steelers received a 3rd and 5th for Antonio Brown and soaked $21 million in dead money. The Giants land a mid first round pick, a third AND Jabrill Peppers. That's a win any day of the week if you ask me. No less I believe they ended up saving money in the long run. If Cleveland comes to me with that trade for Beckham, I say yes before they are even done with their sentence. Everyone is talking about the Browns winning the offseason, but IMO, the Giants won it and it wasnt even close. Those were two excellent trades by Shurmur and Co.

In the end the Giants land:
-Kevin Zeitler (stud guard that carries a cap number of roughly $4-5 million less than Vernon)
-Jabrill Peppers (up and coming safety on a rookie contract)
-1st round pick
-3rd round pick
-5th round pick
-Saved roughly $32 million per year by getting rid of both players and took on about $10 mill in Zeitler and $1.5 million in Peppers for a net savings of roughly $20.5 million

FOR:
-Odell Beckham (cancer of a teammate that costs over $15 million a year)
-Olivier Vernon (bust FA signing that carries a huge cap hit)
-4th round pick
-Is now paying roughly $32 million per year for two players

Giants win....by a country mile

[YikesVikes]

For those who think the Vikings didn't make a play for Kevin Zeitler ...



More at the link.

Wow just saw this. I was ticked that Spielman didnt try and trade for Zeitler but I guess he did. Typical Browns move though. Pass on Griffen (even though he had some mental issues going on) for that gigantic FA bust Vernon. The guy is completely invisible vs the run and a one trick pony. In the heart of his career, Brian Robison was averaging 7-9 sacks per year. That's what Vernon is doing. He's a good pass rusher but not a great one, but that's about it. Vernon has broke 8 or more sacks 2 times in 7 years (one year was only 8.5). Griffen has done it 5 times in 9 years. Probably would have been 6 if he played all year this year. Damn thats annoying. I would have been all for that deal. The giants raped the Browns in that trade.

In fairness, Vernon has been pretty good at pressure. I think he leade the league this year in pressures (don't quote me) but sacks don't tell the whole story. His issue has and always will be injuries. He's 28 and doesn't have a history of mental issues. I would take him over the Vikings offering Griffen too.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Wow just saw this. I was ticked that Spielman didnt try and trade for Zeitler but I guess he did. Typical Browns move though. Pass on Griffen (even though he had some mental issues going on) for that gigantic FA bust Vernon. The guy is completely invisible vs the run and a one trick pony. In the heart of his career, Brian Robison was averaging 7-9 sacks per year. That's what Vernon is doing. He's a good pass rusher but not a great one, but that's about it. Vernon has broke 8 or more sacks 2 times in 7 years (one year was only 8.5). Griffen has done it 5 times in 9 years. Probably would have been 6 if he played all year this year. Damn thats annoying. I would have been all for that deal. The giants raped the Browns in that trade.

In fairness, Vernon has been pretty good at pressure. I think he leade the league this year in pressures (don't quote me) but sacks don't tell the whole story. His issue has and always will be injuries. He's 28 and doesn't have a history of mental issues. I would take him over the Vikings offering Griffen too.

I would as well. Griffens time has past, thats on Rick. He never handles these situations well.

[YikesVikes]

In fairness, Vernon has been pretty good at pressure. I think he leade the league this year in pressures (don't quote me) but sacks don't tell the whole story. His issue has and always will be injuries. He's 28 and doesn't have a history of mental issues. I would take him over the Vikings offering Griffen too.

I would as well. Griffens time has past, thats on Rick. He never handles these situations well.

I don't think it has passed. I think he has 2 great years left. It's just that Vernon may have 4.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wow just saw this. I was ticked that Spielman didnt try and trade for Zeitler but I guess he did. Typical Browns move though. Pass on Griffen (even though he had some mental issues going on) for that gigantic FA bust Vernon. The guy is completely invisible vs the run and a one trick pony. In the heart of his career, Brian Robison was averaging 7-9 sacks per year. That's what Vernon is doing. He's a good pass rusher but not a great one, but that's about it. Vernon has broke 8 or more sacks 2 times in 7 years (one year was only 8.5). Griffen has done it 5 times in 9 years. Probably would have been 6 if he played all year this year. Damn thats annoying. I would have been all for that deal. The giants raped the Browns in that trade.

In fairness, Vernon has been pretty good at pressure. I think he leade the league this year in pressures (don't quote me) but sacks don't tell the whole story. His issue has and always will be injuries. He's 28 and doesn't have a history of mental issues. I would take him over the Vikings offering Griffen too.

Well it also depends what we offered along with Griffen. Either way, I’m not sure how anyone can say Griffen is past his prime based on last season. In 2017 he had 13 sacks, but he missed 6 games last season and still had 5.5 sacks. Out of the 11 games he played, there were only 5 of them where he didn’t at least record half a sack or more. If he played all season, I think he’s still close to the 10 sack mark last year. He also had his fair share of pressures last year too when he was on the field. There were many times I can remember where he was the first one to the QB, forced him inside and someone like Richardson or Johnson got a sack because of it.

Guys are just saying he’s past him prime because they didn’t see the sack numbers last year.....well obviously, he missed 6 games. No less he also was moved out of his comfort zone to the opposite side when he came back more often than you think. If griff plays 16 games this year or close to that, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he still put up 10 sacks. Overall, I think Spielman couldn’t have handled that situation better. He found him the help he needed, constantly kept in touch with him and the people around him, kept the majority of it private and got him back on the field. Then this offseason, given he couldn’t trade him, he gets him to take a pay cut and we still have a productive pass rusher (which are very hard to find). This wasn’t a bad year to attempt to trade him simply because we’d be lowering our cap number and the draft has a lot of pass rushers in it. Which is why I’ve been saying don’t be surprised if we pass on OL round 1 to land a defensive lineman. Obviously if we traded him to Cleveland our “big need” come draft day would flip from guard to DE. Either way, Spielman was still able to get Griffen to lower his cap number and I’m predicting the sack numbers will still be there. Maybe not 13, but I can definitely see 10

[YikesVikes]

In fairness, Vernon has been pretty good at pressure. I think he leade the league this year in pressures (don't quote me) but sacks don't tell the whole story. His issue has and always will be injuries. He's 28 and doesn't have a history of mental issues. I would take him over the Vikings offering Griffen too.

Well it also depends what we offered along with Griffen. Either way, I’m not sure how anyone can say Griffen is past his prime based on last season. In 2017 he had 13 sacks, but he missed 6 games last season and still had 5.5 sacks. Out of the 11 games he played, there were only 5 of them where he didn’t at least record half a sack or more. If he played all season, I think he’s still close to the 10 sack mark last year. He also had his fair share of pressures last year too when he was on the field. There were many times I can remember where he was the first one to the QB, forced him inside and someone like Richardson or Johnson got a sack because of it.

Guys are just saying he’s past him prime because they didn’t see the sack numbers last year.....well obviously, he missed 6 games. No less he also was moved out of his comfort zone to the opposite side when he came back more often than you think. If griff plays 16 games this year or close to that, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he still put up 10 sacks. Overall, I think Spielman couldn’t have handled that situation better. He found him the help he needed, constantly kept in touch with him and the people around him, kept the majority of it private and got him back on the field. Then this offseason, given he couldn’t trade him, he gets him to take a pay cut and we still have a productive pass rusher (which are very hard to find). This wasn’t a bad year to attempt to trade him simply because we’d be lowering our cap number and the draft has a lot of pass rushers in it. Which is why I’ve been saying don’t be surprised if we pass on OL round 1 to land a defensive lineman. Obviously if we traded him to Cleveland our “big need” come draft day would flip from guard to DE. Either way, Spielman was still able to get Griffen to lower his cap number and I’m predicting the sack numbers will still be there. Maybe not 13, but I can definitely see 10

I don't think he is past his prime. Like I said he has 2 great years left. This issue is as a GM you typically will take a 28 year old over a 30 year old if you feel everything is even. Add in the mental problems and the potential for you not being able to help him like Minn and the public relations nightmare it will create and... one can see why they went with Vernon and NY's offer ( we also have a later draft pick)

[Bowhunting Viking]

Another thing to remember is the 2 seasons ago Griff spent most of the season battling a severe case of plantar fasciitis issues. I dont know how many of you has ever dealt with that but it flat out sucks. I had a bad case of it , and just walking my dog, doing yard work.. well really anything that required to walk, was brutal. I cant imagine trying to beat an opposing blocker/blockers and trying to play.
Personally I feel if Griff gets the mental issues under control, and stays healthy, with his talent and intensity we me see a ressurgance of the beast of a few yrs ago. That's my hope.
The man has alot to prove to not only the organization and his family, but to himself as a man. That can be a strong motivator. I hope he gets himself right and becomes the passionate monster on the field again.

[fiestavike]

Another thing to remember is the 2 seasons ago Griff spent most of the season battling a severe case of plantar fasciitis issues. I dont know how many of you has ever dealt with that but it flat out sucks. I had a bad case of it , and just walking my dog, doing yard work.. well really anything that required to walk, was brutal. I cant imagine trying to beat an opposing blocker/blockers and trying to play.
Personally I feel if Griff gets the mental issues under control, and stays healthy, with his talent and intensity we me see a ressurgance of the beast of a few yrs ago. That's my hope.
The man has alot to prove to not only the organization and his family, but to himself as a man. That can be a strong motivator. I hope he gets himself right and becomes the passionate monster on the field again.

I believe the plantar fascitis has flared up 3 years in a row. That is probably also chronic. His best years are behind him.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Another thing to remember is the 2 seasons ago Griff spent most of the season battling a severe case of plantar fasciitis issues. I dont know how many of you has ever dealt with that but it flat out sucks. I had a bad case of it , and just walking my dog, doing yard work.. well really anything that required to walk, was brutal. I cant imagine trying to beat an opposing blocker/blockers and trying to play.
Personally I feel if Griff gets the mental issues under control, and stays healthy, with his talent and intensity we me see a ressurgance of the beast of a few yrs ago. That's my hope.
The man has alot to prove to not only the organization and his family, but to himself as a man. That can be a strong motivator. I hope he gets himself right and becomes the passionate monster on the field again.

I believe the plantar fascitis has flared up 3 years in a row. That is probably also chronic. His best years are behind him.

I think his “best” years are probably behind him, yes. But he’s still a top 15-20 DE in this league IMO where before he was top 10

[Bowhunting Viking]

I believe the plantar fascitis has flared up 3 years in a row. That is probably also chronic. His best years are behind him.

I think his “best” years are probably behind him, yes. But he’s still a top 15-20 DE in this league IMO where before he was top 10

I didn't know the plantar fascitis situation was lingering that long. I thought he dealt with it for a major part on just 1 season.
I agree he isn't in the top 10 any longer, but hoping he can still be effective a few more seasons. Like I said , sometimes when a man is on a journey of redemption and proving himself great things can happen.
Or , maybe he will decline. I hope for the best.

[CharVike]

I think his “best” years are probably behind him, yes. But he’s still a top 15-20 DE in this league IMO where before he was top 10

I didn't know the plantar fascitis situation was lingering that long. I thought he dealt with it for a major part on just 1 season.
I agree he isn't in the top 10 any longer, but hoping he can still be effective a few more seasons. Like I said , sometimes when a man is on a journey of redemption and proving himself great things can happen.
Or , maybe he will decline. I hope for the best.

That's a great point with redemption. If he can play like he has proven in the past that will be great news for us. Losing him last year was a huge blow. It could be argued that he's our best D player. Our team was hit hard with the injury bug. With that we were still in the hunt the last game. But the Bears deserve credit because that D is a cut above ours. They get turnovers. They had double the interceptions that we had. That don't cut it. Many feel our OL is the weakest part, even though they run block at a top level, of our team but I wouldn't overlook our D that don't force TOs. That's a much bigger problem IMO.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I didn't know the plantar fascitis situation was lingering that long. I thought he dealt with it for a major part on just 1 season.
I agree he isn't in the top 10 any longer, but hoping he can still be effective a few more seasons. Like I said , sometimes when a man is on a journey of redemption and proving himself great things can happen.
Or , maybe he will decline. I hope for the best.

That's a great point with redemption. If he can play like he has proven in the past that will be great news for us. Losing him last year was a huge blow. It could be argued that he's our best D player. Our team was hit hard with the injury bug. With that we were still in the hunt the last game. But the Bears deserve credit because that D is a cut above ours. They get turnovers. They had double the interceptions that we had. That don't cut it. Many feel our OL is the weakest part, even though they run block at a top level, of our team but I wouldn't overlook our D that don't force TOs. That's a much bigger problem IMO.

They definitely don’t run block at a top level. Although I will say they don’t run block at nearly as of a level as some make it out to be. I’d say they are an average run blocking team it’s just they had an OC that was predictable and set them up for failure. There is no reason you shouldn’t be running the football when you have dalvin cook and latavius Murray back there. There could be 5 trash cans out there, it shouldn’t matter with 2 backs like that

[CharVike]

That's a great point with redemption. If he can play like he has proven in the past that will be great news for us. Losing him last year was a huge blow. It could be argued that he's our best D player. Our team was hit hard with the injury bug. With that we were still in the hunt the last game. But the Bears deserve credit because that D is a cut above ours. They get turnovers. They had double the interceptions that we had. That don't cut it. Many feel our OL is the weakest part, even though they run block at a top level, of our team but I wouldn't overlook our D that don't force TOs. That's a much bigger problem IMO.

They definitely don’t run block at a top level. Although I will say they don’t run block at nearly as of a level as some make it out to be. I’d say they are an average run blocking team it’s just they had an OC that was predictable and set them up for failure. There is no reason you shouldn’t be running the football when you have dalvin cook and latavius Murray back there. There could be 5 trash cans out there, it shouldn’t matter with 2 backs like that

I agree the OC was a bad choice. I think I also gave the OL too much credit. Average is more correct.

[YikesVikes]

That's a great point with redemption. If he can play like he has proven in the past that will be great news for us. Losing him last year was a huge blow. It could be argued that he's our best D player. Our team was hit hard with the injury bug. With that we were still in the hunt the last game. But the Bears deserve credit because that D is a cut above ours. They get turnovers. They had double the interceptions that we had. That don't cut it. Many feel our OL is the weakest part, even though they run block at a top level, of our team but I wouldn't overlook our D that don't force TOs. That's a much bigger problem IMO.

They definitely don’t run block at a top level. Although I will say they don’t run block at nearly as of a level as some make it out to be. I’d say they are an average run blocking team it’s just they had an OC that was predictable and set them up for failure. There is no reason you shouldn’t be running the football when you have dalvin cook and latavius Murray back there. There could be 5 trash cans out there, it shouldn’t matter with 2 backs like that

They aren't average. Our RB was leading the league in fewest yards before contact. We simply weren't good due to blocking up front. Don't let the phins game blind you. We had 3 good performances out of 16. The rest was horrible.