It's panic time

[Texas Vike]

I know I keep hammering away at this point but after 2.5 years of this, I just can't see it as a Turner problem anymore. It's a Zimmer problem. Whether he's confident about his offensive knowledge or not, as the head coach he has to lay down the proverbial law and run his team. If he wants Turner to call something less predictable and more likely to succeed than running Asiata up the middle on 1st down, he needs to make that happen. Emphasize it in meetings, when formulating the game plan, in practice. Get on the headphones when it's first and goal and let Turner know what he wants to see!

I agree, in general, with your take, Jim. We're both speculating here. I mean, how do you know that Zimmer hasn't done precisely what you're saying? Perhaps because it hasn't manifested on the field? My guess is that when Norv was hired Zim told him the O was his. He fully handed the reins over to him. It's time to take them back. If Norv can't work like that, hit the highway. If he can, let's see how the rest of the season goes.

[Mothman]

I agree, in general, with your take, Jim. We're both speculating here. I mean, how do you know that Zimmer hasn't done precisely what you're saying? Perhaps because it hasn't manifested on the field?

Exactly, although obviously there's an underlying assumption there.

My guess is that when Norv was hired Zim told him the O was his. He fully handed the reins over to him. It's time to take them back. If Norv can't work like that, hit the highway. If he can, let's see how the rest of the season goes.

Well said!

[chicagopurple]

I don't think we will be able to fairly evaluate ANY OC until the GM does HIS job....people say "why aren't we running screen plays".....well, a screen requires perhaps 3 second of pass protection to let it evolve....Bradford hasn't had more then 1.5 seconds in quite some time. "why isn't Asiata finding that ONE hole I saw on that play?" well, Asiata has 2 guys on top of him the second after he takes the ball....literally......

Turner likes to have a lot of players capable of being moving pieces and masking his calls. That's fine and dandy but none of it works without a front line.....We can replace our coaches as much as we like but no coach will succeed until Spielman does HIS job.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Generally speaking, using all caps on the internet is considered "shouting". It's not a big deal. If you want to keep doing it, that's fine. I just wanted you to be aware that's how it tends to be perceived.
I don't think they should lay down either. My point was just that they need to proceed wisely, considering all factors.

Understandable. Can we use the word "stressing" instead of shouting?

[Pondering Her Percy]

This is the key point, we saw what kind of terrible shape the 2009/2010 all in idea left this team in for 2011 and beyond. It's very short sighted to think we have to do whatever it takes to salvage this year with no regard for the next couple years and what a waste those will be if a big trade doesn't work out.

See, IMO, the 09/10 seasons arent even comparable to this one. That team was OLD. Very old. This team is the complete opposite. We have nobody leaving on the defense next year. So it's basically what we have now with another year of experience. And to add on to that, we drafted for depth last year. Remember that since 2012, we've done nothing but fill major holes on this team. This team has enough talent on the roster to start taking BPA. We didnt NEED Treadwell or Alexander. Clearly because neither of them are really seeing the field. We could have went OL but if you look, the only OT to go in the next two rounds after we picked Laquon was Spriggs in the 2nd. So clearly the depth outside of round 1 was limited. That is why I am seeing we need to do something before this deadline because if we dont, we go into next year with two holes at tackle and have no first round pick.

[Cliff]

I know I keep hammering away at this point but after 2.5 years of this, I just can't see it as a Turner problem anymore. It's a Zimmer problem. Whether he's confident about his offensive knowledge or not, as the head coach he has to lay down the proverbial law and run his team. If he wants Turner to call something less predictable and more likely to succeed than running Asiata up the middle on 1st down, he needs to make that happen. Emphasize it in meetings, when formulating the game plan, in practice. Get on the headphones when it's first and goal and let Turner know what he wants to see!

Not only that, but we don't know how much influence Zimmer has on the offense or offensive gameplan. Like Jim has pointed out, he's the head coach so even if he doesn't know what's going on with the offense ... that's worse, isn't it? Plus, he's a guy that thinks it's important for the players from both sides of the ball to understand the other (the random quizzing in meetings we heard so much about). I don't think Zimmer just threw the keys to Norv and said "here, do what you think is best".

[5thWave]

Bradford would more than likely team up with his old coordinator Pat Shurmur. Who is already on our coaching staff. So it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Sam has excelled under Shurmer like no other. It still doesn't take care of this horrendous o-line. But I think if anyone could utilize the best of Bradford to overcome it, it would be Pat.

[AlldayPotter]

Our team is No. 1 in defense. Zimmer isn't doing anything wrong besides that stupid challenge and the obvious, FIRE Turner.
We're what? 31st in the league for offense, I don't think it will be detrimental if we fire turner and promote shurmur or his son. Our offensive line is terrible, but the #### play calling doesn't #### help it. That drive when we were near goal line and he ran asiata 3 straight times right up the gut drove me crazy.
How does this offense play amazing while Bradford had only been on the team for 14 days and then progressively become worse as he learns the playbook more?

Do what needs to be done, and frankly, should have been done at the end of last season. Fire Turner.

[VikingLord]

This is the key point, we saw what kind of terrible shape the 2009/2010 all in idea left this team in for 2011 and beyond. It's very short sighted to think we have to do whatever it takes to salvage this year with no regard for the next couple years and what a waste those will be if a big trade doesn't work out.

That isn't the only history that suggests such an approach is short-sighted and likely to fail. Just go back to the trade for Herschel Walker and it should be obvious that these moves rarely pay off.

The Vikes got to 5-0 with a simple formula - play lights-out on defense and mistake-free on offense. If they get back to executing that formula they'll start winning again. If they don't, or can't for some reason, then we should all accept the obvious fact that this isn't the version of the Vikings destined for greatness, try to enjoy the rest of the season, and hope Spielman and Zimmer can find a way to grow the team so that next year the obvious flaws are addressed and the team is solid and can truly compete for a title. This year's team is severely flawed for a variety of reasons (and to be fair to Spielman and Zimmer, not all of those reasons could be anticipated when the season began), so they're going to have to play essentially perfectly to go very far. They've shown they can play that way, though, so all hope is not lost provided they can get back to executing their winning formula.

[Texas Vike]

I don't think Zimmer just threw the keys to Norv and said "here, do what you think is best".

I actually think that is pretty much what he's done. Though, to run with your car analogy, I think of it as a driver's ed automobile and Zimmer is the instructor with his own brakes just in case Norv veers wildly into other lanes.

[losperros]

By "held accountable", I don't mean Zimmer should be fired. I just mean we shouldn't keep compartmentalizing blame. Sparano and even Turner are symptomatic of deeper problems. Replacing Turner after this season might be a good idea but if that happens, and if his replacement is going to be successful, a shift in philosophy is necessary. If Zimmer wants to field a defensive team with a complementary, run-oriented offense, they need to build accordingly. They brought in Turner, a coordinator who likes to use a power running game and complement it with an aggressive downfield passing game and then didn't build accordingly. They drafted a QB ill-suited to that approach and failed to build an OL that could really make that power running game sing or provide time for slower-developing, downfield passing plays. What we're seeing on offense seems like a failure from the top down, a failure of vision. To some extent, this offense is the price they're paying for building the defense and maybe over the next few years, they can build a team where both units are good but right now, if the idea was to open a championship window in year 3, it looks like they might have sabotaged their own efforts.

Interesting post and nice read. Thanks, Jim.

Okay, Turner has just resigned. Now it's time for Zimmer to really take charge. As Denny Green once told his team: "We will not have lax offense!" I'm hoping Zimmer does the same. I don't hate Turner but he had a job to do and he couldn't get it done. It's time for everyone, including Zimmer and the players, to do their freakin' jobs. That's what they're getting paid for. Otherwise, they should be expendable. Time for some tough love, Coach!

[Mothman]

Interesting post and nice read. Thanks, Jim.

Thanks.

Okay, Turner has just resigned. Now it's time for Zimmer to really take charge. As Denny Green once told his team: "We will not have lax offense!" I'm hoping Zimmer does the same. I don't hate Turner but he had a job to do and he couldn't get it done. It's time for everyone, including Zimmer and the players, to do their freakin' jobs. That's what they're getting paid for. Otherwise, they should be expendable. Time for some tough love, Coach!

[mansquatch]

Curious to see what changes in the coming 4 weeks. Do we start seeing more Treadwell? (We sure could use his physicality in the red zone...)

Also interested to see what happens with the protection. FWIW, I'm not sure we are going to see some total transformation. Let's see if this makes a difference.

[AlldayPotter]

There is a bunch of talk on reddit about a conspiracy theory that pat shurmur did the play calling for the first 4 games for bardford, then after the bye week turner took over.

Either way , in the last 31 drives we have had 3 TDS, so I'm curious to see how Shurmur does. Lions are next and I actually think they are very good, just not winning the close games.

[Texas Vike]

I actually think that is pretty much what he's done. Though, to run with your car analogy, I think of it as a driver's ed automobile and Zimmer is the instructor with his own brakes just in case Norv veers wildly into other lanes.

My suspicion proved accurate. In his post-Norv resignation presser Zimmer says: "Since Norv has been here I've given him almost 100% free will on everything they've done offensively."

http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 802bc89611

(@ about 2:50 mark)