Just my $0.02. Nothing fun about a last second loss but I saw much positivity for the future in the game thread, a feeling I share. A quick thought, nothing novel I'm sure, it's been a while since I posted.
The players play the games (cliche). But I think it is tremendously promising that Zimmer and the coaching staff took a group of players, some stellar, some marginal and molded them into a division winner likely one year earlier than most expected. A VERY impressive season. One bad outcome does not a successful season destroy. Onward and upward.
Go Vikes!
Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
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VikingLord
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Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
Agree 100%.
This team's future is very bright.
This team's future is very bright.
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Jordysghost
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Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
I think your arrow is definitely pointed up, but I've thought this since prior to the draft so it isn't a really big surprise.
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
It was a good season and Zimmer has definitely done a nice job of molding a hard-working, unified team. Winning the division was a huge step forward. As for the future...
It looks bright on defense, where the team is young, already playing well and the coaching is clearly superior. They have a few older players in key roles so they'll need to make a successful transition to younger starters at those positions over the next few years. The arrow clearly seems to be pointing up on that side of the ball.
The special teams have been quite good. There's room for improvement on both units (defense and special teams) but they're playoff-caliber.
The offense is what really needs work and despite what the Vikes achieved this season, I think the bright future so many see for them is going to depend heavily on what the Vikings do on that side of the ball. If they want to become a team that can advance deep into the playoffs and win it all, they're either going to have to field an all-time great defense so dominant that it carries them the distance or they need to improve their passing game. Over the last two years, it's been sub-standard. They also desperately need to improve their blocking (run and pass), and they must develop more killer instinct on offense. They've settled for field goals too often the last two seasons and they've appeared too willing to settle for field goals. It's hurt them, including in yesterdays loss to Seattle.
In other words, the future is bright IF they recognize their shortcomings and are able to improve upon them. Otherwise, we could be looking at a repeat of the early days of the Green era: lots of playoff appearances and quick exits.
It looks bright on defense, where the team is young, already playing well and the coaching is clearly superior. They have a few older players in key roles so they'll need to make a successful transition to younger starters at those positions over the next few years. The arrow clearly seems to be pointing up on that side of the ball.
The special teams have been quite good. There's room for improvement on both units (defense and special teams) but they're playoff-caliber.
The offense is what really needs work and despite what the Vikes achieved this season, I think the bright future so many see for them is going to depend heavily on what the Vikings do on that side of the ball. If they want to become a team that can advance deep into the playoffs and win it all, they're either going to have to field an all-time great defense so dominant that it carries them the distance or they need to improve their passing game. Over the last two years, it's been sub-standard. They also desperately need to improve their blocking (run and pass), and they must develop more killer instinct on offense. They've settled for field goals too often the last two seasons and they've appeared too willing to settle for field goals. It's hurt them, including in yesterdays loss to Seattle.
In other words, the future is bright IF they recognize their shortcomings and are able to improve upon them. Otherwise, we could be looking at a repeat of the early days of the Green era: lots of playoff appearances and quick exits.
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
I agree that the future is bright but only if the offense gets fixed. The offense not finishing drives with TDs and not making first downs cost them the game against Seattle more than a last minute missed FG, in my view.
On that note, here's part of Mark Craig's view:
On that note, here's part of Mark Craig's view:
http://www.startribune.com/mark-craig-s ... 364802221/Walsh should have made the chip shot. But he did score all of the team's points up to that point because, once again, the Vikings couldn't convert enough third downs against Seattle. The last time these teams met, the Vikings lost 38-7 in part because they converted only two of 10 third downs. They also committed nine penalties for 95 yards. Sunday's game was competitive, and there were only two penalties for 46 yards. But the Vikings converted only three of 13 third downs. They converted just one of nine third downs over the game's final 47 minutes. Of those nine third downs, four were third-and-13 or longer.
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IrishViking
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Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
I pointed this out in another thread but the Seahawks looked awful. Wilson looked awful.
General Winter showed up.
I don't think anything can be said about either Offense in this game because of the weather factor. Everyone looked bad at everything.
General Winter showed up.
I don't think anything can be said about either Offense in this game because of the weather factor. Everyone looked bad at everything.
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
losperros wrote:I agree that the future is bright but only if the offense gets fixed. The offense not finishing drives with TDs and not making first downs cost them the game against Seattle more than a last minute missed FG, in my view.
On that note, here's part of Mark Craig's view:
http://www.startribune.com/mark-craig-s ... 364802221/
Ouch. Thanks for the link.
As Mark Craig pointed out one paragraph later, the Vikes had 1st and goal at the 7 yard line in that game and ended up settling for three. They ran the ball twice for 3 yards and then tried to dump the ball to McKinnon underneath, at the 3. There was no shot to the end zone, just an ultra-conservative effort to score.
They have to be able to turn opportunities like that into 7 points more often and they have to try harder to do so.
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fiestavike
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Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
And to me, that really comes down to the offensive line. I don't mind run, run in that circumstance...I don't even mind run, run, run. But I hate having a line that can't execute well enough to get it into the endzone or get that first down at the end of the game in a big moment.Mothman wrote:
Ouch. Thanks for the link.
As Mark Craig pointed out one paragraph later, the Vikes had 1st and goal at the 7 yard line in that game and ended up settling for three. They ran the ball twice for 3 yards and then tried to dump the ball to McKinnon underneath, at the 3. There was no shot to the end zone, just an ultra-conservative effort to score.
They have to be able to turn opportunities like that into 7 points more often and they have to try harder to do so.
They only ran 1 jet sweep in this game, and that ticked me off too. I really think that could have been effective as a way to move the ball, and as an action to slow the defense just by the threat.
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-- Cap'n Spazz Cousins
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
fiestavike wrote:And to me, that really comes down to the offensive line. I don't mind run, run in that circumstance...I don't even mind run, run, run. But I hate having a line that can't execute well enough to get it into the endzone or get that first down at the end of the game in a big moment.
I agree. Strategically, that approach is fine IF a team has the personnel up front to pull it off. Unfortunately, the "Minnesota Moving Company" (as Paul Allen likes to describe the o-line) doesn't do enough moving.
They only ran 1 jet sweep in this game, and that ticked me off too. I really think that could have been effective as a way to move the ball, and as an action to slow the defense just by the threat.[/quote
i wish they would have taken a few deep shots early, just to loosen up the Seahawks defense a little. Seattle did that against the Vikes defense and I thought it had the desired effect, even though they didn't connect on them. Wilson and company showed the Vikes they had to defend the whole field.
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
Been off this board for some time now, reasons I won’t go into. Just thought I’d pop in to see what the temperature is with the regular posters. Here are my thoughts (and I’ve been a fan since 1967 - not only that but I distinctly remember exactly how and when I became a fan as an 8-year old):
Love Zimmer and his contrast to the prior head coach. Norv Turner is no idiot but I am not always on board with his philosophy. Then again, fans tend to be more gamblers than those whose paycheck depends on erring on the side of caution.
I do not think our OL players got better individually or as a unit during the season, and I sure hope someone holds Davidson and Fraley’s feet to the fire. Neither one will be confused with Scarnecchia any time soon IMO. I fully understand some of the limitations from the players, but there is absolutely no excuse for some of what I witnessed from Kalil for example.
I see Teddy continuing to progress but not becoming anything beyond a very good, mobile quarterback. And yes, just like “game manager”, using “mobile” to describe a quarterback is rarely a huge compliment. His throwing mechanics are not good and I cannot think of the last top-echelon QB with sub-par mechanics. He will very likely be fine for a few years, but I think the team had better be thinking long term at the QB position.
As Zimmer alluded in his post-game presser (and I’m paraphrasing), there is no guarantee that this season provides a launching pad for next season. Things change. Yes, we have a decent base of players and I think overall a very good coaching staff. That is a start. I have not kept up with Sullivan/Loadholt injuries so I’m not sure what kind of future base we have at OL, but I can say Kalil drives me insane. I recall Loadholt carries a big cap number but I think we have to bite that bullet, if healthy. I don’t know why but our OL this year simply didn’t “hustle” in my view. Even after blown assignments or stuffed runs, they made me sick with lack of effort. I don’t get it. A guy like Clemmings should be forcing his athleticism on opponents. Let’s put it this way, these guys better hope we don’t replace Norv with Chip Kelly.
As far as fandom goes, I have to say the disappointment over the missed FG yesterday is a whole different kind of disappointment than suffering through the 21-32 record of mediocrity from the prior coaching staff and players at the time. Those 3 win and 5 win seasons are/were just brutal in terms of being a fan. Today’s feeling for me is of quite possibly better things to come in the near future. My disappointment in the Frazier regime was mired in absolute hopelessness for the organization. So I like this disappointment a lot better than that of a few years ago, if that makes any sense.
In my Vikings circles I did not hear one peep about Rick Spielman this season. Maybe you guys spent all year dissecting his decisions, but by and large he now seems to be in the “doing a solid job” camp with most Vikes fans. Good to have one less thing to complain about. And it’s nice to have a bit of confidence in our draft process moving forward. I wouldn’t get giddy that we’ll outfox everyone but I have no reason to be negative.
My gameplan would be to improve the OL coaching staff, improve the OL talent level, maybe take a late flier on a QB in the draft with good mechanics but with questions elsewhere (look at how many times the Patriots have done this and then jettisoned the player – it may take years before we find one). Greenway staying another year will maybe let us get away with drafting a LB a bit later than we would have (and I think it helps AD and his attitude).
All in all I would bet the Vikes FO is VERY excited about the possibilities of acquiring players in the next 4-6 months. IMO the AD situation will take care of itself, meaning if we improve the OL I think most of the downsides of using him like Norv does become a lot less of a problem. And I sure hope Zim and Norv (if he stays) are studying film of other teams and what works for a back like AD. Some of it seems awfully simple to me, especially when your OL is struggling all year. But I’m no NFL caliber coach, that’s for darn sure.
So keep your hopes up fans, the team is on way firmer footing than that of a few years ago (in my opinion anyways). I’m as despondent as the next guy over the missed 27 yarder, but I’m much happier that Zimmer is the coach, the players genuinely seem to like/respect him (hugely important IMO) and most of them are younger rather than older. I’m assuming we are now a fairly attractive place to play for potential FA’s and that the new stadium will bring added excitement to 2016.
Things are looking up. See you again in a few years.
Love Zimmer and his contrast to the prior head coach. Norv Turner is no idiot but I am not always on board with his philosophy. Then again, fans tend to be more gamblers than those whose paycheck depends on erring on the side of caution.
I do not think our OL players got better individually or as a unit during the season, and I sure hope someone holds Davidson and Fraley’s feet to the fire. Neither one will be confused with Scarnecchia any time soon IMO. I fully understand some of the limitations from the players, but there is absolutely no excuse for some of what I witnessed from Kalil for example.
I see Teddy continuing to progress but not becoming anything beyond a very good, mobile quarterback. And yes, just like “game manager”, using “mobile” to describe a quarterback is rarely a huge compliment. His throwing mechanics are not good and I cannot think of the last top-echelon QB with sub-par mechanics. He will very likely be fine for a few years, but I think the team had better be thinking long term at the QB position.
As Zimmer alluded in his post-game presser (and I’m paraphrasing), there is no guarantee that this season provides a launching pad for next season. Things change. Yes, we have a decent base of players and I think overall a very good coaching staff. That is a start. I have not kept up with Sullivan/Loadholt injuries so I’m not sure what kind of future base we have at OL, but I can say Kalil drives me insane. I recall Loadholt carries a big cap number but I think we have to bite that bullet, if healthy. I don’t know why but our OL this year simply didn’t “hustle” in my view. Even after blown assignments or stuffed runs, they made me sick with lack of effort. I don’t get it. A guy like Clemmings should be forcing his athleticism on opponents. Let’s put it this way, these guys better hope we don’t replace Norv with Chip Kelly.
As far as fandom goes, I have to say the disappointment over the missed FG yesterday is a whole different kind of disappointment than suffering through the 21-32 record of mediocrity from the prior coaching staff and players at the time. Those 3 win and 5 win seasons are/were just brutal in terms of being a fan. Today’s feeling for me is of quite possibly better things to come in the near future. My disappointment in the Frazier regime was mired in absolute hopelessness for the organization. So I like this disappointment a lot better than that of a few years ago, if that makes any sense.
In my Vikings circles I did not hear one peep about Rick Spielman this season. Maybe you guys spent all year dissecting his decisions, but by and large he now seems to be in the “doing a solid job” camp with most Vikes fans. Good to have one less thing to complain about. And it’s nice to have a bit of confidence in our draft process moving forward. I wouldn’t get giddy that we’ll outfox everyone but I have no reason to be negative.
My gameplan would be to improve the OL coaching staff, improve the OL talent level, maybe take a late flier on a QB in the draft with good mechanics but with questions elsewhere (look at how many times the Patriots have done this and then jettisoned the player – it may take years before we find one). Greenway staying another year will maybe let us get away with drafting a LB a bit later than we would have (and I think it helps AD and his attitude).
All in all I would bet the Vikes FO is VERY excited about the possibilities of acquiring players in the next 4-6 months. IMO the AD situation will take care of itself, meaning if we improve the OL I think most of the downsides of using him like Norv does become a lot less of a problem. And I sure hope Zim and Norv (if he stays) are studying film of other teams and what works for a back like AD. Some of it seems awfully simple to me, especially when your OL is struggling all year. But I’m no NFL caliber coach, that’s for darn sure.
So keep your hopes up fans, the team is on way firmer footing than that of a few years ago (in my opinion anyways). I’m as despondent as the next guy over the missed 27 yarder, but I’m much happier that Zimmer is the coach, the players genuinely seem to like/respect him (hugely important IMO) and most of them are younger rather than older. I’m assuming we are now a fairly attractive place to play for potential FA’s and that the new stadium will bring added excitement to 2016.
Things are looking up. See you again in a few years.
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vikesfan87
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Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
Jimmy Johnson after the Cowboys lost to Erik Kramer and the Detroit Lions in the 1991 NFC Divisional Round said something to the effect of: "this doesn't happen next year, next year we win the Super Bowl." I don't know if this team has much talent as that Cowboys team yet (arguably on defense they do), but that's the mentality I'd like them to go into next season with. Also, yes, if you said that the Vikings would finish the season 11-5 and win the NFC North then I would have laughed. I expected Green Bay to win this division with the Vikings finishing second, albeit with a record of around .500.CalVike wrote:Just my $0.02. Nothing fun about a last second loss but I saw much positivity for the future in the game thread, a feeling I share. A quick thought, nothing novel I'm sure, it's been a while since I posted.
The players play the games (cliche). But I think it is tremendously promising that Zimmer and the coaching staff took a group of players, some stellar, some marginal and molded them into a division winner likely one year earlier than most expected. A VERY impressive season. One bad outcome does not a successful season destroy. Onward and upward.
Go Vikes!
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
This team is on the right track, I love the brand of football we play and I think we can still improve it, especially on the offenses side of the ball. This defense is damn good and I was shocked we shut out seattle for as long as we did. I think we will play a style of ball that lines up with 10+ wins a year simply because our defense and consistency will simply out class the bad to average teams in the league.
It's hard to believe Diggs, Kendricks, Waynes, and Hunter were all rookies, they have so much more upside to bring to the table to go along with a harrison smith, anthony barr, teddy bridgewater, joseph, griffen, etc etc that I don't think we've seen this teams ceiling, in fact we might not even be close to it yet. Especially if this next draft brings in another batch of strong rookies.
Kendricks had a play yesterday where doug baldwin was coming open over the middle and he ran stride for stride with him and then broke up the pass as it got there, that play right there just impressed me so much. That is not easy at all for a LB but it was for him.
The offense needs help, I don't really believe in Norv, I simply can't forgive his ultra conservative field goal offense. If his name was childress, bevell, musgrave, etc he'd be taking a LOT more heat for what he put out there yesterday.
Still, if we can get help on the O-line, Teddy continues to mature and improve, and that convinces Norv to be more aggressive and we can score more TD's then I still think there's ample room for improvement there.
The absolute biggest thing to look for going into next season is if we can run Peterson out of the shotgun due to improved blocking. If we can do that and have success this offense will be much more dynamic. Even if we can't do that though the next best thing is to simply be more effective blocking from under center because they were also atrocious at that. That's kind of what has me excited as this offense for all of it's troubles, was still some what effective and I fully expect them to work on making it better this off season.
It's hard to believe Diggs, Kendricks, Waynes, and Hunter were all rookies, they have so much more upside to bring to the table to go along with a harrison smith, anthony barr, teddy bridgewater, joseph, griffen, etc etc that I don't think we've seen this teams ceiling, in fact we might not even be close to it yet. Especially if this next draft brings in another batch of strong rookies.
Kendricks had a play yesterday where doug baldwin was coming open over the middle and he ran stride for stride with him and then broke up the pass as it got there, that play right there just impressed me so much. That is not easy at all for a LB but it was for him.
The offense needs help, I don't really believe in Norv, I simply can't forgive his ultra conservative field goal offense. If his name was childress, bevell, musgrave, etc he'd be taking a LOT more heat for what he put out there yesterday.
Still, if we can get help on the O-line, Teddy continues to mature and improve, and that convinces Norv to be more aggressive and we can score more TD's then I still think there's ample room for improvement there.
The absolute biggest thing to look for going into next season is if we can run Peterson out of the shotgun due to improved blocking. If we can do that and have success this offense will be much more dynamic. Even if we can't do that though the next best thing is to simply be more effective blocking from under center because they were also atrocious at that. That's kind of what has me excited as this offense for all of it's troubles, was still some what effective and I fully expect them to work on making it better this off season.
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
Speaking of that 1st and goal situation that ended in a FG for the first 3 points of the game...
I decided to take another look at the play.
3rd and goal for the Vikes.
Right before the snap, Collinsworth said to keep an eye on McKinnon and referred to him as Bridgewater's "safety blanket". Sure enough, after the snap, Bridgewater looked immediately to McKinnon underneath and quickly threw a pass his way that would fall incomplete.
Take a look at a couple of still shots of the play. Wright is circled in yellow. The ball is circled in orange in the second picture.
Draw your own conclusions.
I decided to take another look at the play.
3rd and goal for the Vikes.
Right before the snap, Collinsworth said to keep an eye on McKinnon and referred to him as Bridgewater's "safety blanket". Sure enough, after the snap, Bridgewater looked immediately to McKinnon underneath and quickly threw a pass his way that would fall incomplete.
Take a look at a couple of still shots of the play. Wright is circled in yellow. The ball is circled in orange in the second picture.
Draw your own conclusions.
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
My conclusion is that Wright was open for a possible TD. And I've seen that kind of thing too often with this current Vikings offense.Mothman wrote:Speaking of that 1st and goal situation that ended in a FG for the first 3 points of the game...
I decided to take another look at the play.
3rd and goal for the Vikes.
Right before the snap, Collinsworth said to keep an eye on McKinnon and referred to him as Bridgewater's "safety blanket". Sure enough, after the snap, Bridgewater looked immediately to McKinnon underneath and quickly threw a pass his way that would fall incomplete.
Take a look at a couple of still shots of the play. Wright is circled in yellow. The ball is circled in orange in the second picture.
Draw your own conclusions.
I guess I'm in the minority in wanting the offense to alter its play-not-to-lose philosophy. Too many opportunities go wasted.
Re: Most Encouraging Sign for 2016
Raiders fan here, but always followed the vikes since tarkenton.
Shame the way the kick went, but you should be very happy with your team.
Excellent coaches.
Excellent management and drafting.
New stadium.
Great fan base.
Killer defense.
Good enough QB.
High character guys. After seeing the BS in Cinci and Carolina, very refreshing.
My two cents ... build that o-line, and quit beating yourselves.
You won the division this year, should have beat the Seahawks. Next year it will be farther.
Shame the way the kick went, but you should be very happy with your team.
Excellent coaches.
Excellent management and drafting.
New stadium.
Great fan base.
Killer defense.
Good enough QB.
High character guys. After seeing the BS in Cinci and Carolina, very refreshing.
My two cents ... build that o-line, and quit beating yourselves.
You won the division this year, should have beat the Seahawks. Next year it will be farther.