The Teddy Bridgewater Thread

[Mothman]

I also think its telling that Teddy matched a 15 year QB and an arguable GOAT in three key Categories his second year. How is that NOT a good thing? How does that get brushed away? Its just such an utter disconnect to downplay those numbers and shine a bright light on the specifics that aren't liked.

He didn't really match Brady in the INT category. He threw 9 to Brady's 7 and Brady has thrown 177 more passes this season than Bridgewater. His INT % is 1.1 (best in the league) while Bridgewater's is 2.0, which means Bridgewater threw INTs at almost twice the rate Brady did this season.

He didn't match him on YPA either and Bridgewater is actually at the lower end of the spectrum in that category for a QB that started and played in the majority of games this season.

Kudos to him for having a better completion percentage than Brady. I think that's partly a consequence of his conservative play but it's still a good stat.

As I said above, stats don't tell the whole story, especially when presented without context. That's as true for the TD stats as it is for those discussed above. I realize that but as I've already indicated, his TD numbers are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to issues with his game. That's why I've repeatedly made an effort to look beyond those numbers, not to just point to them alone.

[IrishViking]

He didn't really match Brady in the INT category. He threw 9 to Brady's 7 and Brady has thrown 177 more passes this season than Bridgewater. His INT % is 1.1 (best in the league) while Bridgewater's is 2.0, which means Bridgewater threw INTs at almost twice the rate Brady did this season.

He didn't match him on YPA either and Bridgewater is actually at the lower end of the spectrum in that category for a QB that started and played in the majority of games this season.

Kudos to him for having a better completion percentage than Brady. I think that's partly a consequence of his conservative play but it's still a good stat.

As I said above, stats don't tell the whole story, especially when presented without context. That's as true for the TD stats as it is for those discussed above. I realize that but as I've already indicated, his TD numbers are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to issues with his game. That's why I've repeatedly made an effort to look beyond those numbers, not to just point to them alone.

I guess that I just inherently disagree that there is an iceberg here. I see progress. I think his TDs numbers would be higher if not for a handful of aberration plays that we can actually watch happen. Not a series of if X then Y then Z causes A but literally X happened, cost a touchdown. So I then look beyond those numbers and imagine how concerned I'd be with a 18-20 TD season from him. And I wouldn't be. So I am not.

[Mothman]

I guess that I just inherently disagree that there is an iceberg here. I see progress. I think his TDs numbers would be higher if not for a handful of aberration plays that we can actually watch happen. Not a series of if X then Y then Z causes A but literally X happened, cost a touchdown. So I then look beyond those numbers and imagine how concerned I'd be with a 18-20 TD season from him. And I wouldn't be. So I am not.

His TD numbers would also be lower if not for quite a few impressive run-after-catch efforts. That sort of thinking cuts both ways.The fact that he ended up with such a low total shows there's not much margin for error. There will inevitably be some plays like those you referred to above and some like the RAC TDs I mentioned that sort of thing has a tendency to even out.

If you don't see the issues, that's fair. That's your viewpoint, based on your viewing experience. I do see them and that's why I'm concerned.

[Mothman]

I look at the trend of the last few games (before Green Bay) and saw a QB settling in a bit more. He was producing more 1TDs games than 0TD games and a handful of the TDs he threw were gorgeous basket drops, look offs, etc that give me some confidence that he is learning from his mistakes. Everyone has clunkers. If he produces moderately well this Sunday I'll be quite happy regardless of the outcome and pretty confident in him next year.

i'm more cynical, mainly because he showed a similar upward trend toward the end of last season but I don't think he built on it.

Fair enough, I guess I am struggling to understand what you want. If you don't want us to give up on him yet but are frustrated, join the club, I have jackets. I agree a backup you can depend on is very important, especially a young one that could potentially be groomed into a starter.

I'll take a jacket!

What I want is for him to produce. I want to see serious improvement in his overall performance. He doesn't look like an appreciably better player to me at the end of this season than he did at the end of last season.

But that last part is the issue. I don't think its the good fortune on being on a team with a strong defense. Its him playing for a defensive coach who has built a strong defense and wants to win low scoring games 20-14 or such. We agree, Zimmer agrees, Norv agrees, Teddy agrees, he needs to hit on those deep openings. But that is a completely separate issue than the conservative play IMO. When they take a shot Teddy needs to hit it, but otherwise Teddy needs to not turn it over and stay ahead of the chains.

I don't think that's what Zimmer and Turner want, I think that's what they're getting and they're trying to make the most of it.

I agree I think what it just boils down to is that I think he right on the cusp.

Maybe that's where we disagree. To me, he doesn't look on the cusp of anything but more of the same.

A big thing that boost my confidence is earlier in the year when he threw that int in the endzone because he didn't look the safety off properly. then, like 4 weeks later, he executes it PERFECTLY and scores us 6 points. He can adjust and he can learn. He just strikes me as;
Being. This. Freakin. Close.

I think he looked the safety off properly the first time around, the safety just didn't bite and Bridgewater threw the pass without realizing it. Again, we perceive it differently. It explains a lot! We may not agree about Bridgewater but I feel this kind of discussion can at least helps us understand the other's point of view. Thanks, Seamus! I always enjoy talking with you! Sorry to cut this short (and sorry I didn't reply to all of your comments). I really need to get back to work.

[mondry]

I was looking up some stats for another board but they're kind of interesting to this discussion as well.

MN RB's have 15 rushing touchdowns, and Teddy has 3 rushing touchdowns himself for 18 rushing touch downs by the team.

OAK RB's have 7 rushing touchdowns, and zero from Carr for a total of 7 rushing touchdowns

JAC RB's have 3 rushing touchdowns, and Bortles has 2 rushing touchdowns himself for a total of 5 rushing touch downs.

So we almost quadruple JAC's rushing touchdowns and almost triple Oaklands. We simply favor handing the ball off in prime scoring position and when you have a weapon like Peterson why wouldn't you? Of course Teddy doesn't seem to get much credit for driving us down to the 3 yard line where our backs are almost automatic but if you took just 1/3rd of our 15 rushing touchdowns from the backs and instead we passed for them, Teddy would have 22 touchdowns (including his rushing TD's) which looks a lot more respectable and is reason enough for me to believe that his TD total isn't much of a problem all things considered.

[Mothman]

I was looking up some stats for another board but they're kind of interesting to this discussion as well.

MN RB's have 15 rushing touchdowns, and Teddy has 3 rushing touchdowns himself for 18 rushing touch downs by the team.

OAK RB's have 7 rushing touchdowns, and zero from Carr for a total of 7 rushing touchdowns

JAC RB's have 3 rushing touchdowns, and Bortles has 2 rushing touchdowns himself for a total of 5 rushing touch downs.

So we almost quadruple JAC's rushing touchdowns and almost triple Oaklands. We simply favor handing the ball off in prime scoring position and when you have a weapon like Peterson why wouldn't you? Of course Teddy doesn't seem to get much credit for driving us down to the 3 yard line where our backs are almost automatic but if you took just 1/3rd of our 15 rushing touchdowns from the backs and instead we passed for them, Teddy would have 22 touchdowns (including his rushing TD's) which looks a lot more respectable and is reason enough for me to believe that his TD total isn't much of a problem all things considered.

You're assuming they would have successfully passed for those 5 TDs and they weren't in prime scoring position for all of them anyway. Just off the top of my head, I can recall that McKinnon had a 60+ yard TD run against NY, Peterson had a 30+ yard TD run against Atlanta, a long yard TD against Oakland, a 40+ yard TD run against San Diego and a 48 yarder against Denver. That's 1/3 of the 15 TDs by Vikings RBs right there.

[mondry]

You're assuming they would have successfully passed for those 5 TDs and they weren't in prime scoring position for all of them anyway. Just off the top of my head, I can recall that McKinnon had a 60+ yard TD run against NY, Peterson had a 30+ yard TD run against Atlanta, a long yard TD against Oakland, a 40+ yard TD run against San Diego and a 48 yarder against Denver. That's 1/3 of the 15 TDs by Vikings RBs right there.

And you're assuming just because the drive ended in a 1, 2, 5, 30, 40, or 80+ yard run that the drive couldn't have also ended with a passing TD had that not happened.

But that wasn't even the point anyway, the point is that there's an awful lot of opportunity to score touch downs being taken up by the running game and since that's basically a fact I guess I can see why you would attack me instead.

[Mothman]

And you're assuming just because the drive ended in a 1, 2, 5, 30, 40, or 80+ yard run that the drive couldn't have also ended with a passing TD had that not happened.

No, I was trying to point out that any alternate outcome for those plays is purely speculative and can't be assumed.

But that wasn't even the point anyway, the point is that there's an awful lot of opportunity to score touch downs being taken up by the running game and since that's basically a fact I guess I can see why you would attack me instead.

I don't know why you interpreted my comments as a personal attack. I didn't attack you. I addressed the content of your post and my point was that, contrary to what you've implied, there aren't that many prime TD-scoring opportunities being taken up by the running game.

[MrPurplenGold]

It takes more than 2 years to determine the trajectory of an NFL quarterback. The problem is, most fan bases don't have the patience to wait on the development of a QB. Some QBs start off hot and fizzle to nothing (Kaepernick & RGIII) and others take years to develop into above average to elite QB status. Below is a list of 5 QBs whose first 3 years may not have been that great statistically. While each of them currently have better statistics than Teddy Bridgewater, it's clear that they wouldn't have become the QBs they are today without the patience of a franchise willing to develop them. Each QB currently holds a superbowl ring except 1.
While Teddy might not be as good as any of these QBs, we won't know if the Vikings give up on him before he gets the opportunity to enjoy several years of continued development. I think if he can become what Russel Wilson was early in his career, around 3500 yards 20 tds 10 ints, the Vikings can be competitive year in and year out.

Russel Wilson
2015
68.1 4,024 34 8 110.1

2014
63.1 3,475 20 7 95.0

2013
63.1 3,357 26 9 101.2

2012
64.1 3,118 26 10 100.0

Cam Newton
2015
59.8 3,837 35 10 99.4

2014
58.5 3,127 18 12 82.1

2013
61.7 3,379 24 13 88.8

2012
57.7 3,869 19 12 86.2

Drew Brees
2006
64.3 4,418 26 11 96.2

2005
64.6 3,576 24 15 89.2

2004
65.5 3,159 27 7 104.8

2003
57.6 2,108 11 15 67.5

2002
60.8 3,284 17 16 76.9

Eli Manning
2009
62.3 4,021 27 14 93.1

2008
60.3 3,238 21 10 86.4

2007
56.1 3,336 23 20 73.9

2006
57.7 3,244 24 18 77.0

2005
52.8 3,762 24 17 75.9

Ben Roethlisberger
2009
66.6 4,328 26 12 100.5

2008
59.9 3,301 17 15 80.1

2007
65.3 3,154 32 11 104.1

2006
59.7 3,513 18 23 75.4

2005
62.7 2,385 17 9 98.6

2004
66.4 2,621 17 11 98.1

[DK Sweets]

This is usually the point of the thread where I bring up free tacos.

[Raptorman]

Brady 64.4% Teddy 65.3% Brady 7.6 YPA Teddy 7.2 YPA Brady 7 int Teddy 9 int

Obviously this is tongue and cheek because Brady would be anyone's first choice by a mile. And you can make the claim that Brady threw it more thus making the stats more impressive. But that cuts both ways. Increase Bridgewater's attempts up to Brady's level who's to say he wouldn't have more TDs and more YPA. Take away 150 of Brady's completions and whos to say he wouldn't lose a massive chunk of his Deep bombs and TDs?

Teddy has a long way to go still but there are empirical QB centered numbers that show near identical stats. Identical stats mean similarity at the most base level. Ergo; 2nd year Teddy has a Completion percentage, YPA, and interception total similar to 15th year Tom Brady.

On this point I would like to say that over the last 2 years Brady is 6 for 37 attempts 16% of balls thrown 31 yards or more. While Teddy is 4 for 35 for 11%. Brady does not throw that many long balls.

[losperros]

Brady 64.4% Teddy 65.3% Brady 7.6 YPA Teddy 7.2 YPA Brady 7 int Teddy 9 int

Obviously this is tongue and cheek because Brady would be anyone's first choice by a mile. And you can make the claim that Brady threw it more thus making the stats more impressive. But that cuts both ways. Increase Bridgewater's attempts up to Brady's level who's to say he wouldn't have more TDs and more YPA. Take away 150 of Brady's completions and whos to say he wouldn't lose a massive chunk of his Deep bombs and TDs?

Teddy has a long way to go still but there are empirical QB centered numbers that show near identical stats. Identical stats mean similarity at the most base level. Ergo; 2nd year Teddy has a Completion percentage, YPA, and interception total similar to 15th year Tom Brady.

If you want to believe that Teddy Bridgewater is as good or better than Tom Brady, that's your choice. Too bad it doesn't show up on the field. And I seriously doubt anyone in the NFL would agree with you.

FWIW, I think it's the biggest reach anyone has ever made on this board. I'm done with this. Fire away.

[Raptorman]

If you want to believe that Teddy Bridgewater is as good or better than Tom Brady, that's your choice. Too bad it doesn't show up on the field. And I seriously doubt anyone in the NFL would agree with you.

FWIW, I think it's the biggest reach anyone has ever made on this board. I'm done with this. Fire away.

Look, no one is saying Bridgewater is better than Brady or even close. But Brady wasn't Brady right away. Hell his first year stat line looks very much like Bridgewater's. Point is, you don't really know how a QB is going to do right off the bat. Remember how good Josh Freeman looked in his second year, 3400 yards, 25 td's 6 interceptions......yeah, an elite QB in the making. Next year it went down a bit, following year back up to 4000 yards and 27 tds 17 int........then bam! He's cut.

The question is, "Is Bridgewater on the Brady path or the Freeman path?" That we won't know for at least another year. And no here can predict it. If they could, they wouldn't be here but working in the NFL.

[mosscarter]

i agree with you raptorman in the following sense: he needs all of next season to make a statement, or not make one. either way, after that if he doesn't improve it will be time to go a different direction. 3 seasons is enough of a barometer as to whether or not someone is legitimate or not. most people in the real world only have 1 year to prove themselves. with lynch out i honestly think the game score will be 7-6. teddy will have 80 yds passing with no td's and 1 int. blair walsh will have 2 field goals over 50 yds in minus wind chill and we will still lose because we have no qb. bridgewater is basically next to useless aside from getting us into field goal range. he is an expert in that area.

[fiestavike]

This whole thread is a joke.