The Teddy Bridgewater Thread

[VikeMike]

I think giving him a 2 on that scale at this point of his career is fair.
A 3 maybe the most likely point of his ceiling. I'm still hoping he can climb to a 4 after some seasoning.

His pocket presence, the way he generally keeps his eyes downfield, even temperament and his football acronym give me hope. His tendency to hold on to the ball too long, passing mechanics and inability to hit the open deep receiver gives me pause.

Bridgewater has limitations, and his mechanics are part of the problem. Maybe he is aware of the limitations of his arm strength and that leads him to be cautious about his throws. It's hard to say, if only because the camera angles usually don't show the receivers as they run their routes. It is frustrating, how often he throws the ball away — I mean, every QB does it, but it doesn't seem as frequently as Teddy.

He has shown flashes that he can produce as a big-league quarterback. But just flashes. He needs to be consistent and learn how to hit open receivers downfield. He has some intangibles that can't be taught, and I think he can be taught some of the things he can't do well at this point. I'm holding out hope that he will develop into a legitimate NFL quarterback, but I agree with you, Jim, he isn't there yet.

[losperros]

The throw to McKinnon was an easy throw that any NFL quarterback should be able to complete, no matter who is running the route. It was an inside-shoulder throw, which is a lot easier than an a throw between the receiver and the sideline. McKinnon had two steps on his man and is fast as heck. All Teddy had to do was put it up with some air under it.

I continue to contend that Teddy's problems are mechanical. The throw to McKinnon was a prime example. Intellectually, Teddy played it beautifully. He made exactly the right read. But he didn't angle his shoulders upward and drive the ball. He flipped it out there with a low elbow, like he usually does, and that hurts his distance control. Chris Collinsworth has mentioned his faulty mechanics two weeks in a row now, and according to Collinsworth, Teddy actually ACKNOWLEDGES that he has a flippy throwing motion. I mean, if Teddy KNOWS his throwing motion is suspect, why isn't he working his butt off to correct it?

It's definitely a technique issue when it comes to the long ball inaccuracy. The coaches have to work this out of Bridgewater. It's costing the offense some big plays. There are other things Teddy needs to get right. I imagine some will come with experience. Whatever the case, he really needs to get on top of the accuracy and inconsistency problems.

There is no doubt Teddy CAN throw the ball correctly. His 56-yard TD pass to Charles Johnson against the Jets last year is a perfect example. Interestingly enough, it's almost the same throw as he needed to make to McKinnon ... inside shoulder, down the right sideline.

Here Teddy sets his feet, angles his shoulders, and drives. The ball is thrown perfectly.

Teddy has lazy mechanics, and it hurts him. You don't get many chances like the McKinnon throw in an NFL game. I'd go so far as to say that if Teddy had made a good throw to McKinnon, we wouldn't be talking about how bad a game he had.

I've looked at that play throughout the season many times for two reasons. First, because it clearly shows that Bridgewater CAN make that kind of throw. And second, because it shows how Charles Johnson can be an effective WR.

[mosscarter]

jim isn't the only one who isn't a fan. i'd say teddy is a 1 or 2 (i'll give him the benefit of 2) and will get no better than a 3. the only reason i'd give him a 2 is because every so often he does look like a legitimate quarterback, but it isn't anywhere near consistent enough, and his bad games aren't just bad--most of them are horrible.

this season: in 8 games
san fran-223 yds 0 td
det: 153 yds 1 td
sd: 121 yds 0 td
stl: 144 yds 0 td (he was knocked out, but still wasn't moving that offense)
oak: 140 yds 1 td
sea: 119 yds 0 td
atl 174 yds 0 td
gb: 99 yds 0 td

that is a total of 8 games which is obviously half a season. those numbers are HORRIFIC. 2 passing touchdowns in 8 games and less than 200 yds passing in 7. on what planet do those statistics constitute a franchise quarterback? if you call that progress maybe it's time to visit a psychiatrist. tavaris jackson had similar numbers, but the difference is no one thought he was a franchise qb. 14 passing touchdowns in 16 games is pathetic. people mention his december, well he had 5 of those td's in one single game. in truth, we should have won both the denver and cards game if our qb could throw for a touchdown when we need it.

[DK Sweets]

Assuming 1 is the bottom and 5 is the top...

I'd say he's a 2 right now. Assuming progress, my best guess is 5 years from now he'll be a 3.

That's how I feel about it right now. How would you rank him using the same numerical scale?

I know this is going to drive you crazy, but I think right now he's a 3 playing like a 2.

What I mean by that is I think on roughly 2/3 of the league's offenses, I think he would look like a 3 and that's what he is in a vacuum. I think this particular unit exposes a lot of his weak areas and so he looks like a 2. I don't blame anybody for saying he's a two at the point, I just think that due to the weak O-line and the Defense/Adrian oriented team, he doesn't get a lot of opportunities to show what he could do on a team built around him. It's the right decision, but it doesn't do Teddy any favors from a statistical standpoint.

5 years from now I truly believe he'll be a 4. He doesn't lack functional arm strength, leadership, toughness, or mobility. He needs to clean up his mechanics which should clear up many of his accuracy issues. His decision making is pretty good, but he needs to get a better feel when to push a throw into a tighter window. I don't think any of these will ever completely clear up, but I think he'll improve in all areas.

The reason I have so much faith in him is two fold: he (often, not always) plays better under pressure and at a very young age seems to have won over his teammates. My impression with our last two QBs was that the coaches had their backs but the players never believed in them. I don't get that impression at all with this team. If they believe in him, I have to believe they see something in him that warrants their belief.

[mondry]

I know this is going to drive you crazy, but I think right now he's a 3 playing like a 2.

What I mean by that is I think on roughly 2/3 of the league's offenses, I think he would look like a 3 and that's what he is in a vacuum. I think this particular unit exposes a lot of his weak areas and so he looks like a 2. I don't blame anybody for saying he's a two at the point, I just think that due to the weak O-line and the Defense/Adrian oriented team, he doesn't get a lot of opportunities to show what he could do on a team built around him. It's the right decision, but it doesn't do Teddy any favors from a statistical standpoint.

5 years from now I truly believe he'll be a 4. He doesn't lack functional arm strength, leadership, toughness, or mobility. He needs to clean up his mechanics which should clear up many of his accuracy issues. His decision making is pretty good, but he needs to get a better feel when to push a throw into a tighter window. I don't think any of these will ever completely clear up, but I think he'll improve in all areas.

The reason I have so much faith in him is two fold: he (often, not always) plays better under pressure and at a very young age seems to have won over his teammates. My impression with our last two QBs was that the coaches had their backs but the players never believed in them. I don't get that impression at all with this team. If they believe in him, I have to believe they see something in him that warrants their belief.

I totally get what you mean, he's a solid 3 on the oakland raiders for example or on any team that doesn't feature a deep vertical passing game at it's forefront. I think that's the biggest thing to take away from all of this at the end of the day, whether you like Teddy or not, this offense does not match his skill set, in fact it's probably the worst offense he could be thrown into.

So yeah, I totally get saying he's a 3 playing like a 2 and I didn't even talk about the worst O-line in football yet.

If we can bring in a system like NE's and improve the O-line I could see him as a solid 4 a couple years from now. With Norv in this offense 3 is probably his ceiling.

[PurpleMustReign]

Jim, what about on a scale of 1,475 to 89,108?

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[Mothman]

I know this is going to drive you crazy, but I think right now he's a 3 playing like a 2.

That doesn't drive me crazy.

What I mean by that is I think on roughly 2/3 of the league's offenses, I think he would look like a 3 and that's what he is in a vacuum. I think this particular unit exposes a lot of his weak areas and so he looks like a 2. I don't blame anybody for saying he's a two at the point, I just think that due to the weak O-line and the Defense/Adrian oriented team, he doesn't get a lot of opportunities to show what he could do on a team built around him. It's the right decision, but it doesn't do Teddy any favors from a statistical standpoint.

5 years from now I truly believe he'll be a 4. He doesn't lack functional arm strength, leadership, toughness, or mobility. He needs to clean up his mechanics which should clear up many of his accuracy issues. His decision making is pretty good, but he needs to get a better feel when to push a throw into a tighter window. I don't think any of these will ever completely clear up, but I think he'll improve in all areas.

The reason I have so much faith in him is two fold: he (often, not always) plays better under pressure and at a very young age seems to have won over his teammates. My impression with our last two QBs was that the coaches had their backs but the players never believed in them. I don't get that impression at all with this team. If they believe in him, I have to believe they see something in him that warrants their belief.

I understand and we're very much in the realm of the subjective here so views inevitably vary. For example, I'm inclined to think the defense and Peterson are helping him rather than holding him back. I think he might have struggled more on a team without those assets, not less. The o-line has definitely been detrimental.

Thanks for simplifying the discussion. I think it's been beneficial.

[Mothman]

I think giving him a 2 on that scale at this point of his career is fair.
A 3 maybe the most likely point of his ceiling. I'm still hoping he can climb to a 4 after some seasoning.

His pocket presence, the way he generally keeps his eyes downfield, even temperament and his football acronym give me hope. His tendency to hold on to the ball too long, passing mechanics and inability to hit the open deep receiver gives me pause.

Bridgewater has limitations, and his mechanics are part of the problem. Maybe he is aware of the limitations of his arm strength and that leads him to be cautious about his throws. It's hard to say, if only because the camera angles usually don't show the receivers as they run their routes. It is frustrating, how often he throws the ball away — I mean, every QB does it, but it doesn't seem as frequently as Teddy.

He has shown flashes that he can produce as a big-league quarterback. But just flashes. He needs to be consistent and learn how to hit open receivers downfield. He has some intangibles that can't be taught, and I think he can be taught some of the things he can't do well at this point. I'm holding out hope that he will develop into a legitimate NFL quarterback, but I agree with you, Jim, he isn't there yet.

Excellent post, Mike and thanks for understanding where I'm coming from on this...

Jim, what about on a scale of 1,475 to 89,108?

35,679.

[Raptorman]

jim isn't the only one who isn't a fan. i'd say teddy is a 1 or 2 (i'll give him the benefit of 2) and will get no better than a 3. the only reason i'd give him a 2 is because every so often he does look like a legitimate quarterback, but it isn't anywhere near consistent enough, and his bad games aren't just bad--most of them are horrible.

this season: in 8 games
san fran-223 yds 0 td
det: 153 yds 1 td
sd: 121 yds 0 td
stl: 144 yds 0 td (he was knocked out, but still wasn't moving that offense)
oak: 140 yds 1 td
sea: 119 yds 0 td
atl 174 yds 0 td
gb: 99 yds 0 td

that is a total of 8 games which is obviously half a season. those numbers are HORRIFIC. 2 passing touchdowns in 8 games and less than 200 yds passing in 7. on what planet do those statistics constitute a franchise quarterback? if you call that progress maybe it's time to visit a psychiatrist. tavaris jackson had similar numbers, but the difference is no one thought he was a franchise qb. 14 passing touchdowns in 16 games is pathetic. people mention his december, well he had 5 of those td's in one single game. in truth, we should have won both the denver and cards game if our qb could throw for a touchdown when we need it.

Well yes. when you look at the numbers it does look like he sucks. Tell me, how may 1st down passes in each of those games? How many 1st downs running did he have in those games? If I am not mistaken they won 5 of those 8. Now, I am not saying he does not have room to improve, but, Dree Brees had 4800 yards and 32 TD's. How did those help his team to a playoff game? Wait, they aren't in the playoffs.

Why is it that people keep focusing on a set of number from QB's and insisting that they always need more? I even end up doing it. What would you rather have, a QB that throws 3200 yards and 24 TD's and wins the Super Bowl or one that throws 4800 yards, 36 TD's and isn't in the playoffs? Because there is very little correlation between 4,000 yard, 30 TD seasons and winning a Super Bowl.

[TSonn]

jim isn't the only one who isn't a fan. i'd say teddy is a 1 or 2 (i'll give him the benefit of 2) and will get no better than a 3. the only reason i'd give him a 2 is because every so often he does look like a legitimate quarterback, but it isn't anywhere near consistent enough, and his bad games aren't just bad--most of them are horrible.

this season: in 8 games
san fran-223 yds 0 td
det: 153 yds 1 td
sd: 121 yds 0 td
stl: 144 yds 0 td (he was knocked out, but still wasn't moving that offense)
oak: 140 yds 1 td
sea: 119 yds 0 td
atl 174 yds 0 td
gb: 99 yds 0 td

that is a total of 8 games which is obviously half a season. those numbers are HORRIFIC. 2 passing touchdowns in 8 games and less than 200 yds passing in 7. on what planet do those statistics constitute a franchise quarterback? if you call that progress maybe it's time to visit a psychiatrist. tavaris jackson had similar numbers, but the difference is no one thought he was a franchise qb. 14 passing touchdowns in 16 games is pathetic. people mention his december, well he had 5 of those td's in one single game. in truth, we should have won both the denver and cards game if our qb could throw for a touchdown when we need it.

There are quite a few flaws to your line of thinking here. First, we won 6 of those 8 games. With our coaching staff we run the ball when we get a lead. It's already been discussed but Teddy threw 4 times in the second half last Sunday. He had more yards than Rodgers in the first half but then we went into full conservative mode while Rodgers threw 30 times in the second half alone. Second, every team would win if they had a "QB who could throw a touchdown when [they] need it" so that's just dumb. Third, also something pointed out before, is that Teddy's stats (even the games you mentioned) resemble Norv's old QB Troy Aikman. Maybe that's the path he is taking with Teddy?

From what I could tell from your posts this season, you seem to be obsessed with video game stats. You cited that Brees and Manning threw 6/7 TDs in one game as a comparison to prove Teddy isn't a good QB. I know a lot goes into winning, but the Saints and the Giants both had losing records and we destoryed Eli two weeks ago. Teddy isn't a stats guy. He may never average more than 1-2 TD passes a game. He is a win guy.

[John_Viveiros]

...With our coaching staff we run the ball when we get a lead. It's already been discussed but Teddy threw 4 times in the second half last Sunday.

And every one of them was caught!

Three by us, one by them - and that one set up the Munnerlyn TD. That was really clever of Teddy to set that up!

[Tongue firmly in cheek]

In the 1990's, we let two QB's go who would go on to win Superbowls. Let's not do that again, okay. The guy is 17-11 as a starter.

[vikeinmontana]

Second, every team would win if they had a "QB who could throw a touchdown when [they] need it" so that's just dumb.

actually, depending on time i think every team would tie because every team would be scoring a td every time the touch the ball...

[Mothman]

From what I could tell from your posts this season, you seem to be obsessed with video game stats. You cited that Brees and Manning threw 6/7 TDs in one game as a comparison to prove Teddy isn't a good QB. I know a lot goes into winning, but the Saints and the Giants both had losing records and we destoryed Eli two weeks ago. Teddy isn't a stats guy. He may never average more than 1-2 TD passes a game. He is a win guy.

In the 1990's, we let two QB's go who would go on to win Superbowls. Let's not do that again, okay. The guy is 17-11 as a starter.

Bridgewater's a "win guy" with a 17-11 record in no small part because of the team surrounding him, especially the defense. Drop him on the Titans or Browns roster over the same period of time and it's very unlikely he'd still have a winning record.

John, Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl after leaving the Vikes in the '90s. Who is the other Super Bowl winner you referred to above?

[Raptorman]

Here's the thing with QB's. You don't need a 4000 yard 35 TD QB year in and year out to win the Super Bowl. You need a guy who will get you 3500 yards and 20-25 TDs, an no more than 15 interception a year to be successful in the NFL. Along with that, you need a defense that isn't giving up a ton of points. Only fans think you need to throw 4500 yards and 40 TD's a year to win. Coaches don't, at least some coaches don't. Now, having a guy that does throw 4000 yards and 30-35 TD's a year makes it bit easier to win in the regular season but that's about it. It will help you get to the playoffs but it won't necessarily help you win in the playoffs.

[PurpleMustReign]

Bridgewater's a "win guy" with a 17-11 record in no small part because of the team surrounding him, especially the defense. Drop him on the Titans or Browns roster over the same period of time and it's very unlikely he'd still have a winning record.

John, Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl after leaving the Vikes in the '90s. Who is the other Super Bowl winner you referred to above?

Maybe he's thinking of Rich Gannon?

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