vatusay wrote:
I cant decide if I think Teddy can be the guy moving forward or not. He puts up stinkers then comes back with 300+ yards. Seems like his best games are those where they run plays that get the receivers crossing about 8-12 yards down the field and they do a lot of the damage with YAC. I don't get how Norv can call a game with routes that don't take long to develop, have success, then go back to the game-plan that requires protection, which the vikings don't have.
I wish he could have hit McKinnon and Pruitt on the deep balls. Another piece of evidence that he gets too "excited" in these big spots.
Offensive line is terrible. (I feel like Khalil actually does not care out there) Even when he has time his head is telling him he doesn't because its what he has grown accustomed to. I hate seeing him afraid of ghost pressure.
Would love to see him out of more shotgun sets. I know, I know......
I'm with ya.....TB has missed many of those throws all year. Don't know what to say that hasn't already been said....
purpletinted66 wrote:He needs better pocket awareness, i.e. blitz detection
sent from tapatio talk
This is actually usually one of his stronger abilities. It doesn't help when you're forced to run for your life on every (or every other) pass attempt.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
purpletinted66 wrote:He needs better pocket awareness, i.e. blitz detection
sent from tapatio talk
I think his awareness is exceptional for his age....that plays into his skittishness IMO. He can see what's coming but has little to no faith he'll be protected long enough for whatever play they are running.
He'd be much better where he could call plays at the line IMO. Maybe it will get to that someday....but right now it seems they aren't even lining up until there 10secs left on the play clock.
I would like to see them play a no huddle offense regularly
The Breeze wrote:My concern is that his bad games are consistently against good teams, in spite of some good games against good ones.
He gets panicked and it shows up in overthrows and his leaving the pocket too early. He looked scared again last night. I know there are protection issues....but they only attempted 19 passes. Rudolphf wasn't targeted once. Some might scoff at Kapp saying he could've hit McKInnon, hell I was saying the same thing to myself. He was 5yds open and Teddy had a clean pocket.
Why was there not even one attempt at a screen play to someone? It was the continual ramming of AD into a defense that understands how to stop him, as Collingsworth pointed out several times. Why was there no play action until practically the 2nd half?
They were running play action from the start. For example, they used it more than once on the opening drive.
Rogerd got sacked 5-6 times, their run game was meh and his line is trashed right now...but Mcarthy found ways to help him out in the 2nd half.
I just see a lot of issues with this offense that have yet to be resolved since the Chicago and NY blowouts. AZ is trumpeted as a game on the positive side for the offense....they scored 20, I'm not so sure. The glaring issues brought up last night will only be magnified against Seattle. The Vikings cannot change personnel...Norv has to find some way to work with what he has other than handing the ball to AD.
It doesn't matter what he calls if it's not executed. He called some plays last night that should have worked for big gains or scores. They were there to be made and the players didn't get it done. As I've said before, I think there's room for Norv to improve but he can't play the games for his players.
BTW.......Mike Wallace caught a pass last night.......woo hoo.......then promptly disappeared......
I bet he gets released, goes elsewhere , and has a great year.......I think he has neither the QB or the scheme to succeed here.
I keep having to stop myself and remind myself that Teddy has no OL.....cant really judge him very clearly. I just pray the Vikes dont plan on giving our current OL "one more season"......time to step up and invest.
I clearly think the execution is poor against the better D's specifically...but I also think the two issues (execution playcalling/adjustments) are not mutually exclusive in the overall dysfunction. IMO there are many calls he makes that stand little chance of being executed to a satisfying result in terms of moving the chains and resting the defense, specifically against solid defenses, which GB ain't IMO. You're not saying that they are mutually exclusive either, but I'm just voicing my hesitancy to endorse Turner going forward. He had amazing talent in SD and DC and they did not execute conistently...especially big game situations. So, I just have wait and watch like the rest of us.
I don't recall any play action on the first drive.
The Breeze wrote:I clearly think the execution is poor against the better D's specifically...but I also think the two issues (execution playcalling/adjustments) are not mutually exclusive in the overall dysfunction. IMO there are many calls he makes that stand little chance of being executed to a satisfying result in terms of moving the chains and resting the defense, specifically against solid defenses, which GB ain't IMO. You're not saying that they are mutually exclusive either, but I'm just voicing my hesitancy to endorse Turner going forward. He had amazing talent in SD and DC and they did not execute conistently...especially big game situations. So, I just have wait and watch like the rest of us.
I don't recall any play action on the first drive.
They used it at least twice. I remember, specifically, that they used play action on the incomplete attempt to Pruitt in the end zone.
I'd have to check to find all the specific instances but I'd be surprised if they didn't use it on and off throughout both halves.
As for Turner: I have some reservations about him too but I see no chance whatsoever that he won't be the OC next season.
He'd be looking a lot better this morning if Bridgewater had played better last night.
Mothman wrote:
They used it at least twice. I remember, specifically, that they used play action on the incomplete attempt to Pruitt in the end zone.
I'd have to check to find all the specific instances but I'd be surprised if they didn't use it on and off throughout both halves.
As for Turner: I have some reservations about him too but I see no chance whatsoever that he won't be the OC next season.
He'd be looking a lot better this morning if Bridgewater had played better last night.
Yeah, i don't think he'll be replaced either...I don't even think that would be prudent, considering things could work out well. It's just my gut around it...and so, it is what it is.
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regarding playaction: I have no chance to go back and watch, so I can't really be certain now.
As far as TB playing better vs how Norv looks this morn: It's hard to seperate the two when TB only attempts 4 passes in the 2nd half. I mean he could have very well redeemed himself by leading just one solid drive....but there were just too many breakdowns on the whole unit.
My frustration is piqued, cause I'm loving everything about this team other than how the offense performs against the good teams and how long that could be before anythin changes
vikesfan87 wrote:
These statistics (if taken by themselves) certainly spell out game manager. Also, eerily similar (again if taken by themselves) to the stat lines that Troy Aikman put up under Norv Turner.
Wow. Teddy's numbers are strikingly similar to Aikman's numbers. Also - I never realized how pedestrian Aikman's career numbers were. He averaged 13.5 TDs and 11.75 INTs a year and only averaged 199 yards a game. He came up big in big games and utilized his team's weapons though!
I was excited but cautious after the ARI and CHI games where Norv was calling much better plays that really helped everyone out and played to our strengths but it doesn't look like that will be sustainable.
Every QB needs to have plays called for him to get him into a rhythm, high percentage stuff to help them establish it. That's what Norv did so well in the ARI game and you can see the opposite of that from BOTH of the QB's this game, Rodgers was freaking awful while they tried to force feed Lacy and be a "run first" team and as soon as they got into pass first mode Rodgers caught fire throwing it 44 times. Teddy doesn't have that luxury, he threw the ball 19 times NINE-TEEN TIMES and a few of them were low percentage deep balls with little chance for success.
It's "great" that we ran the ball 27 times and threw it 19 times but that kind of predictability and game plan won't work against SEA and it's hard to say it "worked" against GB as we had like what, 6 points at half time? They'll smash Peterson on first and second down and we'll have a cold Teddy with no Rhythm try to pass on 3rd and long. I don't think we'll have any answer to them dropping 7 guys into coverage like they did last time and if Norv brings a similar game plan as last night against SEA it will be another slaughter.
As far as Teddy making Norv look better, that's not how this works. It's Norv's job to put teddy in a position to use his strengths and skills with a high chance of success while avoiding his short comings, (aka the deep ball) not the other way around. That kind of thinking just STINKS of the ol Leslie Frazier mentality "well if the players just executed better it would work!"
Last edited by mondry on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The Breeze wrote:
As far as TB playing better vs how Norv looks this morn: It's hard to seperate the two when TB only attempts 4 passes in the 2nd half. I mean he could have very well redeemed himself by leading just one solid drive.
And how many of those 4 passes came on 3rd and long after the run game was unsuccessful?
The Breeze wrote:Yeah, i don't think he'll be replaced either...I don't even think that would be prudent, considering things could work out well. It's just my gut around it...and so, it is what it is.
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regarding playaction: I have no chance to go back and watch, so I can't really be certain now.
As far as TB playing better vs how Norv looks this morn: It's hard to seperate the two when TB only attempts 4 passes in the 2nd half. I mean he could have very well redeemed himself by leading just one solid drive....but there were just too many breakdowns on the whole unit.
I think the fact that redemption was necessary at all speaks volumes.
My frustration is piqued, cause I'm loving everything about this team other than how the offense performs against the good teams and how long that could be before anythin changes
I hear you. That's been my frustration all season and I've taken my share of heat for it but to me, the proof is in the performances and production.
mondry wrote:I was excited but cautious after the ARI and CHI games where Norv was calling much better plays that really helped everyone out and played to our strengths but it doesn't look like that will be sustainable.
Every QB needs to have plays called for him to get him into a rhythm, high percentage stuff to help them establish it. That's what Norv did so well in the ARI game and you can see the opposite of that from BOTH of the QB's this game, Rodgers was freaking awful while they tried to force feed Lacy and be a "run first" team and as soon as they got into pass first mode Rodgers caught fire throwing it 44 times. Teddy doesn't have that luxury, he threw the ball 19 times NINE-TEEN TIMES and a few of them were low percentage deep balls with little chance for success.
It's "great" that we ran the ball 27 times and threw it 19 times but that kind of predictability and game plan won't work against SEA. They'll smash Peterson on first and second down and we'll have a cold Teddy with no Rhythm try to pass on 3rd and long. I don't think we'll have any answer to them dropping 7 guys into coverage like they did last time and if Norv brings a similar game plan as last night against SEA it will be another slaughter.
As far as Teddy making Norv look better, that's not how this works. It's Norv's job to put teddy in a position to use his strengths and skills with a high chance of success while avoiding his short comings, (aka the deep ball) not the other way around.
That's basically what I see. Mcarthy made a significant adjustment by going no huddle...it shifted the flow in the Vikes secondary and put them on their heels some. Kudos to the D for a downright stellar effort, but it will be much more difficult to maintain against the seahawks. I hope we see a different pattern on offense, because I think we can beat them if we can score some points.
