My thoughts on the offense as a whole

[DK Sweets]

I heard somebody on ESPN Radio this morning (sorry, can't remember who) say that if you want a smart resilient team you need smart, resilient players.

My guess is that Zimmer/Norv don't see those qualities in Patterson and possibly now Johnson. They would rather have the consistency of these other players than the peaks and valleys of these more talented receivers, whether it's emotional or otherwise.

I'm not advocating for this approach or saying it's always the best route to take. I do think it is the only likely explanation for the talent in the bench, though.

[losperros]

I heard somebody on ESPN Radio this morning (sorry, can't remember who) say that if you want a smart resilient team you need smart, resilient players.

And smart, resilient coaching and coordinating. Man, I'd love to see that particular kind of consistency on the Vikings.

My guess is that Zimmer/Norv don't see those qualities in Patterson and possibly now Johnson. They would rather have the consistency of these other players than the peaks and valleys of these more talented receivers, whether it's emotional or otherwise.

I'm not advocating for this approach or saying it's always the best route to take. I do think it is the only likely explanation for the talent in the bench, though.

There are lots of "explanations" offered why talent sits on the bench. Few, if any, of the excuses are good.

[autobon7]

Man, that would be a longshot IMO.

Not that I don't agree with you. But Zimmer and Turner go WAY back.

Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will actually think Norv is still head coaching material.

My gut tells me that it seems like a longshot as well.......can only hope. When listening to the media ask Zim about CJ and him acknowledging that he is probably frustrated just angers me. What are we doing??? Gazing into the crystal ball I can see Wallace on the move after seasons end due to salary, lack of chemistry. and the want to be more involved. Patterson may be gone for reasons discussed over and over here. Now CJ too??? That leaves us with Diggs, Wright, and Thielen using my hypothetical worst case scenario.

[dead_poet]

My gut tells me that it seems like a longshot as well.......can only hope. When listening to the media ask Zim about CJ and him acknowledging that he is probably frustrated just angers me. What are we doing??? Gazing into the crystal ball I can see Wallace on the move after seasons end due to salary, lack of chemistry. and the want to be more involved. Patterson may be gone for reasons discussed over and over here. Now CJ too??? That leaves us with Diggs, Wright, and Thielen using my hypothetical worst case scenario.

Patterson isn't going anywhere unless it's via trade. He's under contract (cheaply) and is an asset on returns if nothing else and "depth" at receiver. CJ is also signed for peanuts for one more year. If Wallace moves on that'll theoretically open the door for more playing time for CJ, provided the Vikings don't draft a receiver with day 1 starting potential (or sign a guy like Alshon, which is highly unlikely).

[mansquatch]

This is speculation on my part, but I STRONGLY doubt Jeffrey will ever make it to FA. The Bears will give him a nice contract before he hits the market, he is their biggest threat in the passing game.

[dead_poet]

This is speculation on my part, but I STRONGLY doubt Jeffrey will ever make it to FA. The Bears will give him a nice contract before he hits the market, he is their biggest threat in the passing game.

My money is on franchise tag but either way he's not getting out of Chicago.

[losperros]

My money is on franchise tag but either way he's not getting out of Chicago.

I agree. Also, Jeffrey has said that he doesn't want to leave the Bears, so both sides are at least in agreement on that.

He'll be playing for Chicago next year.

[Mothman]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2015/ ... n-offense/

As an offense, the Vikings have struggled to consistently produce, ranking 25th in yards per play and 26th in points per game. Players such as tight end Kyle Rudolph and guard Brandon Fusco have called for more of a balance on offense, or at least consistency throwing the ball when teams sell out to stop Peterson.

They’ve kept Peterson on a snap count this season to “make sure he’s fresh throughout the entire game,” Turner said, and that’s shown as he’s dominated defenses in fourth quarters, most recently in Oakland and Atlanta. But Peterson wasn’t subbed out as often against the blitz-happy Cardinals in Arizona, where quarterback Teddy Bridgewater threw for a career-high 335 yards and a season-long 9.3 yards per throw.

Turner said he doesn’t see much of a connection between Peterson staying in the game and Bridgewater thriving, but coach Mike Zimmer said he liked including Peterson in passing situations as he always draws attention from defenses.

“We’ll probably continue to want more,” Zimmer said. “When he’s in there, he’s a threat. One of the first things you do before you make the calls are, “who is the back?” so you can determine run-pass kind of things.

“So the more he’s in there, the more it helps your passing game as well.”

“I think every situation is different,” Turner said. “I think that when we fake to [Peterson] and throw the screen, yeah it helps. It’s just depending on, I would say, the play. I think you all try to make too much out of it. I think it’s about going out and executing, performing and everyone doing their job.”

Sure, that's true, Norv, but personnel choices make a difference!

[mansquatch]

Yeah no kidding. Match ups matter. Like putting your 6' 5" TE with Catcher Mitts for hands out on the outside to force coverage issues...

[mondry]

Kind of more "proof" that Norv just doesn't really get it. Having Peterson in for more snaps, including passing snaps makes a difference if for no other reason than limiting your predictability. In my eyes the best chance for this offense to find success is if Peterson can stay on the field and not be a liability on passing downs. He did pretty well picking up blitzes against ARI and I even saw him in a shotgun play or two.

I do find it interesting though that Zimmer basically says "the more he's out there the better" where Norv is saying "it doesn't really matter who the back is".

Maybe not exactly frustration from Zimmer but a tiny bit of disagreement on how things should be handled. If Norv has one of his 8 carry's, barely plays in the 2nd half kind of games for Peterson again maybe that get's the ball rolling for a new OC. One can only hope...

[Mothman]

Kind of more "proof" that Norv just doesn't really get it. Having Peterson in for more snaps, including passing snaps makes a difference if for no other reason than limiting your predictability. In my eyes the best chance for this offense to find success is if Peterson can stay on the field and not be a liability on passing downs. He did pretty well picking up blitzes against ARI and I even saw him in a shotgun play or two.

I do find it interesting though that Zimmer basically says "the more he's out there the better" where Norv is saying "it doesn't really matter who the back is".

Maybe not exactly frustration from Zimmer but a tiny bit of disagreement on how things should be handled. If Norv has one of his 8 carry's, barely plays in the 2nd half kind of games for Peterson again maybe that get's the ball rolling for a new OC. One can only hope...

I think I'd rather hope that we never see one of those games again but I know what you meant.

[mondry]

I think I'd rather hope that we never see one of those games again but I know what you meant.

Yeah, not saying I'm hoping that happens because it most likely means we lost badly but if it did happen then I'd hope we'd seriously consider another option at OC.

[J. Kapp 11]

This is speculation on my part, but I STRONGLY doubt Jeffrey will ever make it to FA. The Bears will give him a nice contract before he hits the market, he is their biggest threat in the passing game.

I wonder sometimes what it must be like to be John Fox.

He takes Carolina to the Super Bowl two years after they were 1-15, and doesn't get his contract renewed (granted after a terrible 2010 season, but still).

He wins four straight division titles and takes Denver to the Super Bowl, and gets shown the door.

Now he's taken over a team in Chicago that is, quite frankly, bottom-feeder when it comes to talent across the board. Yet they're a competitive 5-8, and could be 8-5 if Robbie Gould could make a kick.

Plus, he's stuck with Jay "The Flake" Cutler as his quarterback. Of course, this is a man who won a division with Tim Tebow and a conference championship with Jake Delhomme.

He's an NFL head coach, so life can't be that bad. But in some ways, it must suck to be John Fox.

Sorry for the random post. I suppose it relates to the Jefferey comment in that they really NEED to keep that guy. They're not exactly brimming with talent.

[mansquatch]

My gut on the Fox situation in Denver is they say his Carolina record and then his seasons in DEN and concluded he would get them there but not win it. Also, they more than anyone must know that the "window" with Manning is closing fast. Elway is going for broke to get a title, but it might be too late. I think Fox is a great coach and the staff they have in Chicago is elite. They just need time to build a roster and they will be scary.

For the Vikings, I'm really chilling on Turner. However, I have to temper that with knowing I(we) do not know everything that is going on. The OL issues could realistically be a huge driver in the plays they are caling and that is a culprit in limiting snaps. I do not find this entirely persuasive, but again, we do not know what we do not know. I just find it mind boggling that we are not using our short passing games weapons to their fullest potential given the OL woes we are facing. It almost feels like the thought process is "well if we run short stuff they'll cheat up and we need to keep throwing deep just to keep them honest."

[Mothman]

My gut on the Fox situation in Denver is they say his Carolina record and then his seasons in DEN and concluded he would get them there but not win it. Also, they more than anyone must know that the "window" with Manning is closing fast. Elway is going for broke to get a title, but it might be too late. I think Fox is a great coach and the staff they have in Chicago is elite. They just need time to build a roster and they will be scary.

For the Vikings, I'm really chilling on Turner. However, I have to temper that with knowing I(we) do not know everything that is going on. The OL issues could realistically be a huge driver in the plays they are caling and that is a culprit in limiting snaps. I do not find this entirely persuasive, but again, we do not know what we do not know. I just find it mind boggling that we are not using our short passing games weapons to their fullest potential given the OL woes we are facing. It almost feels like the thought process is "well if we run short stuff they'll cheat up and we need to keep throwing deep just to keep them honest."

What do you think would constitute using their short passing games weapons to their fullest potential?

In some games, teams have been cheating up and taking away a lot of that short stuff. It's not as if the Vikings have been ignoring their short passing game all year but they can't just run Peterson and throw short. That makes it too easy on an NFL defense. They have to be able to stretch the field.

As an aside, after years of people complaining about Childress' dink and dunk offense and Musgrave's west coast offense concepts, it's ironic that so many Vikings fans now want the team to make short passing the focus of their passing game.