Chiefs @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 6

[PurpleKoolaid]

People are actually blaming Norv Turner for Teddy's play? I didn't agree with some of his calls either but Norv isn't the one out there throwing the ball. Teddy looked like a version of the guy that was playing across from him today (Alex Smith). He can't stop turning the ball over, and can't execute when we need him to. It drives me crazy that some on here come up with every excuse in the book to say why we played bad but refuse to blame Teddy. He nearly cost us that game. Period. He needs to find a way to play better. Because I want more than a game manager and that's all he is right now

Yeah, lets put all the blame on Teddy. There is so much blame to go around on this team, lets put it all on one guy without a friggin season under his belt. Norv isnt all that, and neither is our D. It was the tale of 2 halves. Or whens the last time the Vikes got close to the red zone you knew they would score? I dont know when Teddy pissed in your Captain Crunch, but you better get over it, cause without an Oline, we aernt going anywhere. Thanks Rick!

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah, lets put all the blame on Teddy. There is so much blame to go around on this team, lets put it all on one guy without a friggin season under his belt. Norv isnt all that, and neither is our D. It was the tale of 2 halves. Or whens the last time the Vikes got close to the red zone you knew they would score? I dont know when Teddy pissed in your Captain Crunch, but you better get over it, cause without an Oline, we aernt going anywhere. Thanks Rick!

I'm not putting ALL the blame on Teddy. I never once said that so you're once again putting words in my mouth. Obviously our offensive line is awful but for you to say "thanks Rick" is just simply ignorant. Once again, where is most of the pressure coming from?? Center and the right. Exactly where two of our BEST OL play but unfortunately are hurt. You can't expect an offensive line to be the same when you lose two of your best lineman. So you can cry and whine about Rick all you want, but that's not the case. If this line is healthy, there wouldnt be a problem but when two very good linemen go down, it's pretty damn hard to recover.

Norv isn't all that and neither is our D?? Norv has had a long history as being a solid OC but just not the best HC. And you're going to call out our defense?? Are you kidding me?? Do you even watch these games every week?? If it wasn't for our defense, we wouldve lost that game today and a big reason is Teddy's poor throw toward the end of that game. After today, according to NFL.com, we are FIFTH in points allowed this season. Let me repeat, FIFTH!! But yeah our defense "isn't all that". Good one We had this team shut out for 75% of the game and then eventually got scored on because of TEDDYS TURNOVER.

I like Teddy don't get me wrong but if you're going to sit there and say he's played any better than average to below average this year, then you're out of your mind. He faced a terrible pass defense at home when they were stacking the box on AD all day leaving 1 on 1 coverage on the outside. He needs to take much better advantage of that than he did. I've just been very upset and underwhelmed with his play this season. And personally I'm sick of seeing guys on here say, "Teddy played solid, Teddy showed a lot today, Teddy was sharp today" EVERY WEEK. He hasnt done those things. He has a 3:4 TD to INT ratio. Those are Christian Ponder numbers. That is very below average. We are 2ND TO LAST in passing offense. The offensive line injuries aren't helping the situation but teams like the San Diego Chargers have just as bad or worse offensive line and they are SECOND in passing offense. So how does that work?? Does somebody want to tell me the answer to that one??

I'm done hearing, "Teddy is bad because the OL can't block". Neither can San Diego and Rivers has the most passing yards in the NFL. By 400 yards no less. Rivers has thrown for 1,000 more yards than Teddy. Granted we had a bye one week but it wouldn't make a difference. The LEAST amount of yards Rivers threw for in one game is 241. Teddy's HIGHEST is 269. But lets keep defending him and blaming everything on the offensive line. I want to see the guys succeed more than anyone but he's taking a step back right now and can't execute right now. Hopefully he finds that groove he was in at the end of last year because he's nowhere near it right now

[Just Me]

I struggle with trying to decide if Teddy is good, average, or below average. It seems to me that Mothman (not "calling you out," Jim, even though it may initially seem that way - but hear me out ) is not as "patient" (for lack of a better term) with Bridgewater, as he was with Ponder. This may be "selective memory" on my part, and I freely admit I'm probably 'biased' more towards Teddy because I badly want him to succeed, so I'm hardly objective. Even if my perception on Mothman is accurate(and I'm not sure it is), it makes sense (that he is less 'forgiving' for lack of a better term) since it seems we've been down this road before:

Ponder through 17 starts:
7-10 record
22 TD to 19 INT

Bridgewater:
9-8 record
17 TD to 16 INT

It seems to me that Teddy looks better, but the stats through seventeen games, doesn't seem to support my 'impressions' (tainted with purple glasses, they may well be). I really want to believe Teddy is better (and I think he is) but the end results are really not that much different, so it's hard to take a "strong stance" against the opinion that Bridgewater is average to below average given the disturbing similarities between the two at this point in their respective careers. And Jim is not saying Bridgewater can't become a good QB, he's saying he's not one right now.

I think he's "above average" sometimes, and good at others (wishful thinking?). I just wish there was a more definitive evaluation. I don't want Christian Ponder 2.0 and then have us going through the QB carousel 3 years from now.

[TSonn]

I'm done hearing, "Teddy is bad because the OL can't block". Neither can San Diego and Rivers has the most passing yards in the NFL. By 400 yards no less. Rivers has thrown for 1,000 more yards than Teddy. Granted we had a bye one week but it wouldn't make a difference. The LEAST amount of yards Rivers threw for in one game is 241. Teddy's HIGHEST is 269. But lets keep defending him and blaming everything on the offensive line. I want to see the guys succeed more than anyone but he's taking a step back right now and can't execute right now. Hopefully he finds that groove he was in at the end of last year because he's nowhere near it right now

Rivers is definitely better than Bridgewater, no doubt, but you cannot compare stats like that. Rivers is averaging 42 attempts per game while Bridgewater is throwing 29. That's either a difference in game-planning or a difference of playing from behind. The Vikings have have been leading the entire second half of all of their victories which means more runs and fewer throws for Teddy. Even when they are losing, they still have AD the 2012 MVP so they use him more than other teams use their RB when they are down.

Teddy's lower stats are a combination of him being inexperienced, the Vikes having AD, game-planning, and playing with a lead. The 3:4 TD/INT ratio is concerning but our record is 3-2 so let's see how it plays out all season.

The big thing right now is not stats and it is can Teddy make throws when it matters? Sometimes he can (Denver second half, 3rd and 15 today, 3rd down TD today) and sometimes he doesn't (3rd and 1 today, INT on 3rd down today). He seems to make more of those throws than anyone we've had since Favre and then Culpepper before him, and since Teddy is still super young, that's pretty good and gives me hope.

[Mothman]

I struggle with trying to decide if Teddy is good, average, or below average. It seems to me that Mothman (not "calling you out," Jim, even though it may initially seem that way - but hear me out ) is not as "patient" (for lack of a better term) with Bridgewater, as he was with Ponder. This may be "selective memory" on my part, and I freely admit I'm probably 'biased' more towards Teddy because I badly want him to succeed, so I'm hardly objective. Even if my perception on Mothman is accurate(and I'm not sure it is), it makes sense (that he is less 'forgiving' for lack of a better term) since it seems we've been down this road before:

Ponder through 17 starts:
7-10 record
22 TD to 19 INT

Bridgewater:
9-8 record
17 TD to 16 INT

It seems to me that Teddy looks better, but the stats through seventeen games, doesn't seem to support my 'impressions' (tainted with purple glasses, they may well be). I really want to believe Teddy is better (and I think he is) but the end results are really not that much different, so it's hard to take a "strong stance" against the opinion that Bridgewater is average to below average given the disturbing similarities between the two at this point in their respective careers. And Jim is not saying Bridgewater can't become a good QB, he's saying he's not one right now.

Exactly. I don't know how good he will become. Right now, he's average or below average. He's erratic and as I said with Ponder, that's to be expected from a young QB.

I think the perception that I'm less patient with Bridgewater (or that I was more patient with Ponder) is coming more from my reactions to others than to how I've viewed either player. I thought Ponder was inaccurately and harshly criticized to excess so I often found myself defending him. With Bridgewater, we've seen almost the opposite: eagerness to praise, willingness to forgive even some pretty poor performances or mistakes, an understandable desire to believe he's "the answer" we want at QB.

I'm sure I haven't done a perfect job of it but I've tried pretty hard to view both players the same way, with a "wait and see" attitude, because I think it takes 2-3 years for a team to really find out what they have in a QB. There's a process that needs to take place.

I may have been little more hopeful with Ponder and if that's true, it's only because my disappointment with how that worked out has left me hesitant to be a "believer" in Bridgewater. Once bitten...

I think he's "above average" sometimes, and good at others (wishful thinking?). I just wish there was a more definitive evaluation. I don't want Christian Ponder 2.0 and then have us going through the QB carousel 3 years from now.

I don't either, which is why I want the Vikes to take the idea of developing a young "plan B" QB much more seriously. Putting all of their eggs in one basket again and again isn't a good idea.

By the way, I'd say Bridgewater IS above average at times, good at others and pretty bad at times too. He's erratic but it's not your imagination that he's had performances that looked above average. I think the big question with him is will he develop into a QB that can do that pretty consistently?

[TSonn]

By the way, I'd say Bridgewater IS above average at times, good at others and pretty bad at times too. He's erratic but it's not your imagination that he's had performances that looked above average. I think the big question with him is will he develop into a QB that can do that pretty consistently?

Hey Jim, what's your definition of erratic? When I hear erratic I think either completion percentage or INTs, both of which Teddy ranks in the middle of the QB pack (and basically tied with Matt Ryan). Is it how he looks sometimes good, sometimes average, and sometimes bad? How do we quantify that with stats? I'm interested because I think a lot of QBs have ups and downs throughout games and some of the best start slow and get hot (or vice versa). A lot of that seems to be coaching adjustments, not just the QB.

Not trying to be a jerk here, I'm honestly curious.

[mosscarter]

teddy hasn't done a single thing since his first start to impress me. sound familiar, how about ponder's first game? it was his best and it went downhill from there. teddy doesn't have that killer instinct at all inside the red zone; neither did ponder. they both got to the red zone many times; but then what? out qb situation is a total shame no matter how you look at it. when favre was the best thing we've had in 20 years something is majorly wrong.

[Mothman]

Hey Jim, what's your definition of erratic?

Unpredictable, inconsistent, variable... when I use it as I did above, that's what I mean. It's hard to know what to expect from Bridgewater from week to week (or sometimes even from half to half).

When I hear erratic I think either completion percentage or INTs, both of which Teddy ranks in the middle of the QB pack (and basically tied with Matt Ryan). Is it how he looks sometimes good, sometimes average, and sometimes bad? How do we qualify that with stats?

Not trying to be a jerk here, I'm honestly curious.

No problem, you aren't coming across like a jerk at all.

I'm not really using erratic in reference to a particular category of stats like completion percentage or INTs. I'm just using it in regard to overall performance.

I hope that provides some clarity.

[DK Sweets]

I don't view Teddy as erratic, I just don't view him as particularly good.

I see flashes in him and I think he could develop, but I'd say he's been pretty steady at average this year.

[808vikingsfan]

Just the fact that teddy keeps his eyes downfield makes him 10 times more effective as a qb than the Vikings previous first round pick. That 3rd and long play to Diggs is a good example.

For me, I have no doubt BW will be the best qb the Vikings have had since Culpepper. He simply had an OK game today. He was good at times, but was also poor at times.

[Jordysghost]

teddy hasn't done a single thing since his first start to impress me. sound familiar, how about ponder's first game? it was his best and it went downhill from there. teddy doesn't have that killer instinct at all inside the red zone; neither did ponder. they both got to the red zone many times; but then what? out qb situation is a total shame no matter how you look at it. when favre was the best thing we've had in 20 years something is majorly wrong.

Yea but to be fair that was Favre's best year in his career, and he is a Hall of Famer. Its no wonder it was one of the best things you guys have had going for a while.

[VikingLord]

I'm not putting ALL the blame on Teddy. I never once said that so you're once again putting words in my mouth. Obviously our offensive line is awful but for you to say "thanks Rick" is just simply ignorant. Once again, where is most of the pressure coming from?? Center and the right. Exactly where two of our BEST OL play but unfortunately are hurt. You can't expect an offensive line to be the same when you lose two of your best lineman. So you can cry and whine about Rick all you want, but that's not the case. If this line is healthy, there wouldnt be a problem but when two very good linemen go down, it's pretty damn hard to recover.

Norv isn't all that and neither is our D?? Norv has had a long history as being a solid OC but just not the best HC. And you're going to call out our defense?? Are you kidding me?? Do you even watch these games every week?? If it wasn't for our defense, we wouldve lost that game today and a big reason is Teddy's poor throw toward the end of that game. After today, according to NFL.com, we are FIFTH in points allowed this season. Let me repeat, FIFTH!! But yeah our defense "isn't all that". Good one We had this team shut out for 75% of the game and then eventually got scored on because of TEDDYS TURNOVER.

I like Teddy don't get me wrong but if you're going to sit there and say he's played any better than average to below average this year, then you're out of your mind. He faced a terrible pass defense at home when they were stacking the box on AD all day leaving 1 on 1 coverage on the outside. He needs to take much better advantage of that than he did. I've just been very upset and underwhelmed with his play this season. And personally I'm sick of seeing guys on here say, "Teddy played solid, Teddy showed a lot today, Teddy was sharp today" EVERY WEEK. He hasnt done those things. He has a 3:4 TD to INT ratio. Those are Christian Ponder numbers. That is very below average. We are 2ND TO LAST in passing offense. The offensive line injuries aren't helping the situation but teams like the San Diego Chargers have just as bad or worse offensive line and they are SECOND in passing offense. So how does that work?? Does somebody want to tell me the answer to that one??

I'm done hearing, "Teddy is bad because the OL can't block". Neither can San Diego and Rivers has the most passing yards in the NFL. By 400 yards no less. Rivers has thrown for 1,000 more yards than Teddy. Granted we had a bye one week but it wouldn't make a difference. The LEAST amount of yards Rivers threw for in one game is 241. Teddy's HIGHEST is 269. But lets keep defending him and blaming everything on the offensive line. I want to see the guys succeed more than anyone but he's taking a step back right now and can't execute right now. Hopefully he finds that groove he was in at the end of last year because he's nowhere near it right now

Complete 100% agree with you Pondering. Bridgewater has been underwhelming all year and is not producing with his arm.

[PurpleKoolaid]

After almost 1 whole season. I say fire him!

[808vikingsfan]

Complete 100% agree with you Pondering. Bridgewater has been underwhelming all year and is not producing with his arm.

Watch the Denver game again, especially the 2nd half. I don't know how you cannot be impressed with his performance.

[Boon]

If it was Christian Ponder under center and he put up the same stats, you wouldn't be saying "he played a really solid game".

Teddy also hasn't had a season where he has thrown under 150 yards in 7 games, 4 of those being 100 yards or less. Or looked completely lost , running to god knows where while not being pressured, or single handedly throwing games away. I think that's why to be honest