Chargers @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 3

[Pondering Her Percy]

CP returned a kick for a TD this year during preseason. He showed speed and moves. I really don't think he's lost anything, though your comments about returners gradually getting beaten down is a valid one.

I like the first down run CP made in the last game. Speed and lots of persistence. The last few yards he got on his own to get the first down.

How about we give Patterson this season to work things out? That's what Zimmer is doing.

Exactly. For fiesta to say he isn't a good returner anymore just makes zero sense. It makes about as much sense as saying he's "shying away from contact". Like I've said before.....we get it, you don't like the guy. None of us are sitting here saying Patterson is some great WR but if you can't see that he is still a very good returner and still very dangerous in the open field, then I really question your knowledge of football.

[fiestavike]

Exactly. For fiesta to say he isn't a good returner anymore just makes zero sense. It makes about as much sense as saying he's "shying away from contact". Like I've said before.....we get it, you don't like the guy. None of us are sitting here saying Patterson is some great WR but if you can't see that he is still a very good returner and still very dangerous in the open field, then I really question your knowledge of football.

He's great in the open field. the challenge is getting him there. He doesn't hit the first wave going full speed anymore which makes the margin for error a lot bigger for the coverage team. I'm sure he wants to be able to walk after his career so I don't blame him, but its frustrating to see his demise in the only thing he does well enough to get on the field.

[84BreaksAnkles]

It's like did people not watch the game?
CP is clearly getting more involved. Look at his snap count

[Mothman]

It's like did people not watch the game?
CP is clearly getting more involved. Look at his snap count

He was on the field more after Johnson went out but from what I saw, his actual involvement in the offense didn't go much beyond that, except for the jet sweep. He didn't look like a consideration in the passing game unless I missed something in the 4th quarter after CBS went away from the game. Was he ever targeted with a throw? On most of the plays where I saw him line up wide, they ran the ball. In fact, I worried it was going to become a "tell".

[Pondering Her Percy]

He's great in the open field. the challenge is getting him there. He doesn't hit the first wave going full speed anymore which makes the margin for error a lot bigger for the coverage team. I'm sure he wants to be able to walk after his career so I don't blame him, but its frustrating to see his demise in the only thing he does well enough to get on the field.

Agree to disagree

[808vikingsfan]

For those that didnt see the game.

Vikings vs. Chargers (Condensed Full Game)



Found this link on reddit.

[yezzir]

He can't be productive without opportunities. I know there's a "chicken and the egg"-style argument there about earning opportunities but I'm not going to get into it again.

It seems to me that he played pretty well in the preseason. He was catching the ball. He burned a DB for a nice TD. He ran a kickoff back for another TD. I don't buy the idea that he's afraid of contact. He didn't look afraid of contact on his first KO return today or on the jet sweep he ran, where he was literally fighting through tacklers to get a first down. I didn't see the return where he supposedly did shy away from contact (I'll have to catch it later) but even if he did, I'd say that was atypical.

He does what they ask him to do and he maintains a good attitude. The Vikes don't seem to be complaining about his attitude or work ethic. On the contrary, Zimmer seems to like it.

Jim,

Have you heard what some of our local football media/writers and former players (Ben Leber mainly) have said about CP? There's some good stuff out there. He's not getting chances because he literally can't run proper routes. He's a liability when the ball isn't in his hands. He's gotten chances to prove his route running and knowledge in practice and training camp. Something isn't there.

I hope he can turn it around because he seems like a good person, but chances are slim.

[Mothman]

Jim,

Have you heard what some of our local football media/writers and former players (Ben Leber mainly) have said about CP? There's some good stuff out there. He's not getting chances because he literally can't run proper routes. He's a liability when the ball isn't in his hands. He's gotten chances to prove his route running and knowledge in practice and training camp. Something isn't there.

I don't listen to KFAN but I pay attention to what the Minnesota (and national) print media report about the Vikings and I've read conflicting reports about Patterson. What I've seen on the field doesn't mesh with with the supposed incompetence/liability with the ball in his hands line dished out by people like A.J. Mansour, who I don't consider a good source at all (I don't consider the amateur/semi-pro sports press reliable either).. If there's something I've missed from a good, solid source, I'd be interested in it.

Edit: I just have to add: while I mean no disrespect to you or Ben Leber, I have serious doubts about the idea that Patterson "literally can't run proper routes" because there were multiple times last year, and during the preseason, where he appeared to run proper routes just fine. they even utilized him in some crucial, late-game situations last year and he got open and made catches. if his route running was that bad, why would they have ever out him in those situations, much less thrown the ball his way?

It just doesn't add up.

[yezzir]

I don't listen to KFAN but I pay attention to what the Minnesota (and national) print media report about the Vikings and I've read conflicting reports about Patterson. What I've seen on the field doesn't mesh with with the supposed incompetence/liability with the ball in his hands line dished out by people like A.J. Mansour, who I don't consider a good source at all (I don't consider the amateur/semi-pro sports press reliable either).. If there's something I've missed from a good, solid source, I'd be interested in it.

Edit: I just have to add: while I mean no disrespect to you or Ben Leber, I have serious doubts about the idea that Patterson "literally can't run proper routes" because there were multiple times last year, and during the preseason, where he appeared to run proper routes just fine. they even utilized him in some crucial, late-game situations last year and he got open and made catches. if his route running was that bad, why would they have ever out him in those situations, much less thrown the ball his way?

It just doesn't add up.

In the end, the last 2 head coaches and 2 offensive coordinators have more or less refused to give him significant snaps. I'm sure he gets routes correctly occasionally, but even running them correctly 80% of the time won't cut it, which is what we're seeing, in my opinion.

When former players are at training camp every day saying he's making the same mistakes and not really improving, I'll take their word.

[Mothman]

In the end, the last 2 head coaches and 2 offensive coordinators have more or less refused to give him significant snaps. I'm sure he gets routes correctly occasionally, but even running them correctly 80% of the time won't cut it, which is what we're seeing, in my opinion.

When former players are at training camp every day saying he's making the same mistakes and not really improving, I'll take their word.

I haven't heard what Leber and whatever other former players you're referring to said and I couldn't find anything online. What I have seen, repeatedly, are encouraging comments from Zimmer (and, IIRC, some from Spielman) about hard work and progress from Patterson. I recall reports of good route-running and nice adjustments to the ball coming out of training camp. I also have my own personal observations and other analysis I've read, which tells me that while there are some routes Patterson doesn't run well, there are some he ran quite well last year. The idea that he's a liability when the ball isn't in his hands strikes me as extreme. If he was completely incompetent, we wouldn't have seen competence... and we have.

If that doesn't jive with what former wide receiver... I mean linebacker, Ben Leber says, I can live with it.

[yezzir]

I haven't heard what Leber and whatever other former players you're referring to said and I couldn't find anything online. What I have seen, repeatedly, are encouraging comments from Zimmer (and, IIRC, some from Spielman) about hard work and progress from Patterson. I recall reports of good route-running and nice adjustments to the ball coming out of training camp. I also have my own personal observations and other analysis I've read, which tells me that while there are some routes Patterson doesn't run well, there are some he ran quite well last year. The idea that he's a liability when the ball isn't in his hands strikes me as extreme. If he was completely incompetent, we wouldn't have seen competence... and we have.

If that doesn't jive with what former wide receiver... I mean linebacker, Ben Leber says, I can live with it.

Either way...




SKOL!

[fiestavike]

I haven't heard what Leber and whatever other former players you're referring to said and I couldn't find anything online. What I have seen, repeatedly, are encouraging comments from Zimmer (and, IIRC, some from Spielman) about hard work and progress from Patterson. I recall reports of good route-running and nice adjustments to the ball coming out of training camp. I also have my own personal observations and other analysis I've read, which tells me that while there are some routes Patterson doesn't run well, there are some he ran quite well last year. The idea that he's a liability when the ball isn't in his hands strikes me as extreme. If he was completely incompetent, we wouldn't have seen competence... and we have.

If that doesn't jive with what former wide receiver... I mean linebacker, Ben Leber says, I can live with it.

He's likely to get some snaps this week…Maybe a lot. Diggs will possibly also be active. If Patterson winds up behind Diggs on the WR depth chart we'll really know for sure that he is in the doghouse.

I actually expect Patterson to do well this week. With Denver's pass rush, the Vikings are going to have to commit to the run, and Patterson could be used as a decoy and on jet sweeps with frequency. I also think they might run a lot of quick bubble screens as "long handoffs" which is another way Patterson can contribute.

If they wind up running 3 and 4 wr sets and longer developing routes, this game will not go well IMO. They'll have to win it in the trenches and perhaps use some misdirection to use Denver's speed against them.

[Mothman]

Either way...

SKOL!

[Mothman]

He's likely to get some snaps this week…Maybe a lot. Diggs will possibly also be active. If Patterson winds up behind Diggs on the WR depth chart we'll really know for sure that he is in the doghouse.

I actually expect Patterson to do well this week. With Denver's pass rush, the Vikings are going to have to commit to the run, and Patterson could be used as a decoy and on jet sweeps with frequency. I also think they might run a lot of quick bubble screens as "long handoffs" which is another way Patterson can contribute.

If they wind up running 3 and 4 wr sets and longer developing routes, this game will not go well IMO. They'll have to win it in the trenches and perhaps use some misdirection to use Denver's speed against them.

I agree. The Vikes have to win at the line to win this one and Bridgewater will need to get the ball out of his hands quickly. If not, he might really get knocked around.

[fiestavike]

Just for the record, since I've seen it referenced a few times, I want to retract my statement during the game using the word "coward". That was too strong a word. I do maintain that Patterson isn't as brave as he used to be on kick returns. I should have said it better.