1.11 Vikings select CB Trae Waynes, Michigan St.

[J. Kapp 11]

Yes, he has a good track record with them but he's not infallible. Dre Kirkpatrick hasn't had a very good career to date.

Interesting.

If I recall correctly, you're a guy who believes in advanced metrics. If that's the case, then you know that statistically based metrics are accurate only when taken in the context of large amounts of data. It's not accurate to take outliers -- good or bad -- and project them to the whole. So it seems like we ought to apply that same principle to evaluate Mike Zimmer's coaching resume. To bring up one failed corner as an example of Mike Zimmer's shortcomings doesn't seem like ... you.

In all fairness, I can't begin to itemize every corner Zimmer has ever coached. But I think the consensus around the league is that he tends to make a pretty significant difference with most corners. Wouldn't you agree?

If that's the case, I like Zimm's chances with a talented guy like Trae Waynes. That's not to say he's a lock to end up an all-pro. It just seems like a good match.

[IIsweet]

I like the pick because the draft did not fall in a positive way for us.
I would have preferred Gordon or even Shelton. I wanted to trade down.
Obviously we did not get the offers worth not getting Waynes.

I am hoping that either Kendricks or McKinney is there when we pick.

[mondry]

As usual with these picks, the more I read up on the guy and the more I hear about him, the happier I've become with the pick. He has a good head on his shoulders, he's competitive, he want's to take on the best WR's / isn't afraid of the challenge, and fits like a glove in not only our scheme but I would say with the rest of our corners too. Rhodes is bigger and matches up perfectly with Calvin Johnson and Alshon Jeffery. Waynes is a little smaller but much faster and will match up perfectly with the Randell Cobbs of the league and then Munnerlyn / Robinson are also smaller / quick guys that match up perfectly with the Wes Welkers of the league in the slot.

This will give us a pretty good match up advantage against almost any team in the league and allow Anothony Barr and Harrison Smith much more freedom to play the run and make plays blitzing.

Let's not get caught up in the talking heads saying he's stiff or this and that when our top tier defensive coach loves the kid. You can really see the plan coming together here and I can't WAIT to see how scary this D will be down the road.

[dead_poet]

If I recall correctly, you're a guy who believes in advanced metrics. If that's the case, then you know that statistically based metrics are accurate only when taken in the context of large amounts of data. It's not accurate to take outliers -- good or bad -- and project them to the whole. So it seems like we ought to apply that same principle to evaluate Mike Zimmer's coaching resume. To bring up one failed corner as an example of Mike Zimmer's shortcomings doesn't seem like ... you.

Again, I'm not saying that Waynes will be a bad pro. I'm just very cautiously optimistic based on my own research into the guy. I love the positivity around the pick and around Zimmer and his abilities, but I like a dash of reality garnish with my purple sandwich. Zimmer has done a fine job in his career, as a whole, with corners. But he's not infallible. That's all I'm saying. I'm hoping he'll turn into the next Sherman/Revis as much as anyone.

In all fairness, I can't begin to itemize every corner Zimmer has ever coached. But I think the consensus around the league is that he tends to make a pretty significant difference with most corners. Wouldn't you agree?

Zimmer has a track record of stingy defenses and I'm incredibly glad we have him and are already seeing results in the back end (rush defense still needs work). I'm not going to take the time right now to go back and look at the stats/players of every corner he's coached over the years but I agree his track record is good.

If that's the case, I like Zimm's chances with a talented guy like Trae Waynes. That's not to say he's a lock to end up an all-pro. It just seems like a good match.

I think so, too. I think he can be successful in Zimmer's scheme. I don't not like Waynes!

[Mothman]

I think so, too. I think he can be successful in Zimmer's scheme. I don't not like Waynes!

Too late!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki6u2wcqt6A

[HardcoreVikesFan]

Zimm especially knows how to get the best out of corners. Let's not forget that.

I should I have figured this team would go with corner due to the Mike Zimmer influence.

Zimmer's past history with cornerbacks no doubt influenced this pick. Zimmer has always had a high round corner to work with during his tenure in the NFL. In Dallas, he finagled Terrence Newman in the draft. In Atlanta, he now doubt influenced the Chris Houston pick. In Cincinnati, early on, the only influences Zimmer had with the corner position was with lower round guys like Morgan Trent and Brandon Ghee. It wasn't really until 2012 that Cincinnati significantly added corners through the draft in Dre Kirkpatrick and Shaun Prater. Dre Kirkpatrick really didn't show much promise until this season. Prater is now with our team.

What does this mean? Well, it means that no one should be surprised we took Trae Waynes - me included. Zimmer has a good history with cornerbacks working out, so that there is encouraging. However, just because Zimmer is a great coach doesn't mean Trae Waynes will blossom. Could Trae Waynes blossom? Of course. He could easily bust out just as well.

Time will tell. I am not overly excited that we drafted Trae Waynes. I will be happy to eat crow if he turns out. I myself wanted Marcus Peters. It will be very interesting to see who ends up being the better prospect.

[Mothman]

What does this mean? Well, it means that no one should be surprised we took Trae Waynes - me included. Zimmer has a good history with cornerbacks working out, so that there is encouraging. However, just because Zimmer is a great coach doesn't mean Trae Waynes will blossom. Could Trae Waynes blossom? Of course. He could easily bust out just as well.

Sure but there's not a player in the draft you couldn't say the same thing about.

Time will tell. I am not overly excited that we drafted Trae Waynes. I will be happy to eat crow if he turns out. I myself wanted Marcus Peters. It will be very interesting to see who ends up being the better prospect.

... and who ends up playing longest for the team that drafted him. Personally, I'm relieved they didn't draft Peters. There were too many red flags with him and I won't be surprised at all if he doesn't last longer with the Chiefs than the duration of his rookie contract.

[MikethePurple]

I'm cautiously optimistic too in regards to the pick. I can't claim to watch a lot of college football and mainly start paying more attention to prospects in the month or two leading up to the draft. Waynes has been the consensus analyst top corner since the combine however, that doesn't mean a lot in light of recent disappointments like Claiborne and Milliner. Corner was definitely a need and it seems based on the lack of separation between 7-20 that contributed to the lack of trades in the 1st round in general. My guess is teams weren't offering substantial hauls because they didn't have much separation between prospects. Spielman said that was the case for the Vikes so my guess would be that many other teams felt the same way. It would have been nice to trade down but we don't, and probably never will, know what Spielman was offered.

In terms of Waynes, it sounds like his background in a press scheme was helpful but I also heard some knocks on his physicality and tackling. My concern is if there were questions of that in college then could there be even more reason to have doubts about the translation and the competition level at the pro level? Obviously players are bigger, stronger, faster in the pros and if these were issues in college my fear is they could end up being problems going up against bigger and stronger receivers. Especially, being in the same division as physical receivers such as Johnson, Jeffries, and now White (from his scouting descriptions).

Obviously, I very much hope that these concerns are off base and we end up having an amazing corner duo!!

[J. Kapp 11]

I simply look at it this way.

1. To win in today's NFL, you need lockdown corners, and safeties who enforce the middle.
2. The Vikings have one lockdown corner. They needed another.
3. Trae Waynes has great measurables, a ton of character, a track record of hard work, and a load of talent. His flaws seem to be fixable with the right coaching.
4. Mike Zimmer is adept at coaching corners.
5. Therefore, the pick makes a lot of sense.

Will Waynes be great? Absolutely no way of knowing that. But if he can become the kind of corner that Zimmer believes he can be, then we will have three of the four DB positions filled with studs. Now we're approaching Seattle territory.

Obviously, we need another safety, and we need depth (which we now have at corner), and there's no accounting for injuries, but this is a step in the right direction IMO.

[S197]

After sleeping on it I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much the Waynes pick that bothers me (though I still think there are corners with more upside), but the frustration of the talent drop-off from the top-7 picks and the next 20. The board fell like it probably had to and the Vikings unfortunately weren't able to secure a player at the top that I'd consider an elite talent OR trade back to acquire more picks, both of which were my preference to Waynes.

I may be jumping to conclusions here but Waynes, to me, is not the talent that guys picked at 11 (or later) in previous drafts, though that's no fault of his own. A few recent examples:

Odell Beckham, Jr.
Aaron Donald
Kyle Fuller
Ryan Shazier
Zack Martin
C. J. Mosley
Sheldon Richardson
Star Lotulelei
Kyle Long
Xavier Rhodes
DeAndre Hopkins
Fletcher Cox
Chandler Jones
J. J. Watt
Robert Quinn
Cameron Jordan

That said, there really hasn't been an elite, round-1 corner that has come out in quite some time. Other than Rhodes and Joe Hayden, Patrick Peterson, Kyle Fuller and Janoris Jenkins may be the best examples in recent years. We'll see if Waynes will be another Rhodes or another Milliner/Claiborne.

I'll be rooting for him and he seems like a guy that takes well to coaching, which is good because Zimmer has already said he has technique issues to correct. IF he can be an asset, it will go a long way. We haven't had the secondary as a position of strength and depth in YEARS, which is why it's been so difficult to unseat the Packers and why the other teams in the division have been so difficult.

Can't wait to see who the Vikings select today!

Wow that is an impressive list. Someone had posted a draft analysis of Waynes and it came to the conclusion he compares to Fuller so we'll see I guess. I'm more or less agnostic on the pick, I think how Rick comes out of today and tomorrow will be more important than what he did on day 1.

[mondry]

After sleeping on it I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much the Waynes pick that bothers me (though I still think there are corners with more upside), but the frustration of the talent drop-off from the top-7 picks and the next 20. The board fell like it probably had to and the Vikings unfortunately weren't able to secure a player at the top that I'd consider an elite talent OR trade back to acquire more picks, both of which were my preference to Waynes.

I may be jumping to conclusions here but Waynes, to me, is not the talent that guys picked at 11 (or later) in previous drafts, though that's no fault of his own. A few recent examples:

Odell Beckham, Jr.
Aaron Donald
Kyle Fuller
Ryan Shazier
Zack Martin
C. J. Mosley
Sheldon Richardson
Star Lotulelei
Kyle Long
Xavier Rhodes
DeAndre Hopkins
Fletcher Cox
Chandler Jones
J. J. Watt
Robert Quinn
Cameron Jordan

That said, there really hasn't been an elite, round-1 corner that has come out in quite some time. Other than Rhodes and Joe Hayden, Patrick Peterson, Kyle Fuller and Janoris Jenkins may be the best examples in recent years. We'll see if Waynes will be another Rhodes or another Milliner/Claiborne.

I'll be rooting for him and he seems like a guy that takes well to coaching, which is good because Zimmer has already said he has technique issues to correct. IF he can be an asset, it will go a long way. We haven't had the secondary as a position of strength and depth in YEARS, which is why it's been so difficult to unseat the Packers and why the other teams in the division have been so difficult.

Can't wait to see who the Vikings select today!

Can't knock Waynes or spielman for it being a super weak first round though and while it would be NICE to trade back, how do you do that when every other GM knows it's a weak draft too? It wasn't just spielman, there were only 2 trades all together in the first round IIRC.

We don't know what was offered for our pick, but judging by the two trades that DID happen we have this.

"Chargers receive 2015 first-round pick No. 15, Melvin Gordon, and 49ers receive 2015 first-round pick No. 17 and 2015 fourth-round pick No. 117 and a 2016 fifth-round pick.

"Broncos receive 2015 first-round pick No. 23, Shane Ray, and Lions receive 2015 first-round pick No. 28, 2015 fifth-round pick No. 143, 2016 fifth-round pick, and G Manny Ramirez."

That's not a whole lot of value, especially for the Lions who moved back 5 spots and only got a fifth this year, a fifth next year, and a 32 year old guard out of it.

If you're sold on Waynes and aren't as high on the other players on the board, no way do you risk moving back for that little compensation and risk missing your guy.

Like usual with these drafts, most people focus on the negative. If Waynes DOES pan out and ends up being very good, the flip side is that Spielman nailed the pick and found a probowler in a very weak draft class which to me is more impressive than picking C.J. Mosley or Deandre Hopkins out of an absolutely stacked draft class late in the first.

[dead_poet]

Trae Waynes, taking Antoine Winfield's old number

*bristles*

[dead_poet]

Spielman sharing story: Got a text this morning, Trae Waynes visited Children's Hospital. Visited kid about to undergo cleft palate surgery. "That's what we want from a Minnesota Viking player"

[VikingLord]

If Waynes DOES pan out and ends up being very good, the flip side is that Spielman nailed the pick and found a probowler in a very weak draft class which to me is more impressive than picking C.J. Mosley or Deandre Hopkins out of an absolutely stacked draft class late in the first.

I'd characterize it more as a "flat" upper tier than a weak one. This class seemed to have fewer standout players at the top while at the same time watching some big-time talent fall out of the 1st due to character concerns.

I'll be very curious to see how Parker pans out in the pros. Thought the Vikes might go WR at 11 and while I had concerns about Parker I thought he made some sense at that spot.

[Mothman]

Trae Waynes, taking Antoine Winfield's old number

*bristles*

Maybe it's a good omen.