2015 Offseason - Free Agent/Draft Tracker

[vatusay]

They are both back up quarterbacks. This thread has really turned to dog poo. Start a different one if this issue is truly that big of a deal (which it is far from). Please.

Hill fits here better. Cassel wants to start.

If you want the "magic" back up that can come in a carry the team to the Super Bowl if Teddy goes down, keep praying.

Seriously all I can think of is Warner and Brady.

Those organizations just got lucky and that's all there is to that.

[Pondering Her Percy]

But one thing I do know, is that the next Tom Brady will definitely NOT be Shaun Hill or Matt Cassel.....so I'm baffled by most of this thread.

The only thing I'm really arguing is that there isn't much of a difference between Cassel and Hill which there isn't. Others acted like we lost the face of our franchise.

[Pondering Her Percy]

They are both back up quarterbacks. This thread has really turned to dog poo. Start a different one if this issue is truly that big of a deal (which it is far from). Please.

Hill fits here better. Cassel wants to start.

If you want the "magic" back up that can come in a carry the team to the Super Bowl if Teddy goes down, keep praying.

Seriously all I can think of is Warner and Brady.

Those organizations just got lucky and that's all there is to that.

They were lucky IMO. Warner was never "developed"....he was bagging groceries at one point. He was simply just a NFL miracle.

[The Breeze]

The difference being that someone in the Rams organization had the instinct to give him a go over some known non-starter floating from team to team. Trent Green was their guy. The Pats took Brady while Bledsoe was consistently winning games for them.

So, maybe they were lucky, maybe they saw something no one else was looking for...either way you'll never win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

Don't half a$$ scouting the QB position just because you are happy with your starter.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm not saying it's obvious. I'm not saying there are a bunch of quality backups out there available to the Vikings right now. I'm talking about an approach that makes sense. That really shouldn't be so hard to grasp.

Ok and that approach should be Teddy, Hill, and a developmental prospect. I never once argued that if that is what you are referring to. That is exactly what I want this team to do.

Whether that's out there right now and easily identifiable is not the point. the point is that it's obviously possible to find and develop a quality backup QB with legitimate starting potential and of course I'm talking about drafting a player with upside and developing him.

Exactly....when did I ever say we shouldn't do that. You made it sound like there are #2's out there that we are missing out on in your last post.

Backup QBs have become good starters way more than a handful of times.

and how many times in the last 15 years?? Once? Twice? I guess you could say Brady in 2001 and Romo in 2006. Maybe Delhomme? How many backups have filled in over the last 15 years?? Hundreds. I'm not trying to get into a battle of who can name the most, all I'm saying is that the chances are very slim. Which is why I completely fine signing a veteran backup with experience in Turner's system and drafting an developmental guy or even bringing in an UDFA

[jackal]

People don't think that the back QB isn't important or worth debate??

Ask Arizona that question after the 8-1 start; they had not real back up and went from
number one seed to almost missing playoffs and losing on the road...

[Pondering Her Percy]

The difference being that someone in the Rams organization had the instinct to give him a go over some known non-starter floating from team to team. Trent Green was their guy. The Pats took Brady while Bledsoe was consistently winning games for them.

So, maybe they were lucky, maybe they saw something no one else was looking for...either way you'll never win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

Don't half a$$ scouting the QB position just because you are happy with your starter.

And nobody is saying half a$$ it. I'm just saying that the chances are very slim. Draft a QB with a late pick and roll the dice. We can't afford spending earlier picks on a 3rd string QB. I wouldn't draft a QB any earlier than the 6th round and we don't even have a 6th round pick so I'll say the 7th.

[Pondering Her Percy]

People don't think that the back QB isn't important or worth debate??

Ask Arizona that question after the 8-1 start; they had not real back up and went from
number one seed to almost missing playoffs and losing on the road...

Again...nobody is saying that it isn't important. It's the fact that we have our backup and the next thing we can hope for is drafting a late round developmental prospect. This argument went from how Cassel and Hill aren't much different to when we can find the next Tom Brady. I feel like we're straying way off topic here.

[The Breeze]

And nobody is saying half a$$ it. I'm just saying that the chances are very slim. Draft a QB with a late pick and roll the dice. We can't afford spending earlier picks on a 3rd string QB. I wouldn't draft a QB any earlier than the 6th round and we don't even have a 6th round pick so I'll say the 7th.

I'm not saying anyone says it, (especially anyone here)... but teams flat out do it. The Vikings didn't draft a decent QB the whole time Culpepper was here, for example.

I don't care about drafting a guy this draft, there are positions of greater need....but I would like them to make a serious effort(mid-round) next year, assuming they get holes filled this year. I agree the chances are slim anytime you pick a QB, backup or otherwise.

I don't think we disagree ...I'm just extrapolating the conversation some, and pointing out that you can't get lucky if you don't make the pick. And when your team is looking more solid top to bottom, QB is a good spot to push your luck on. I think most teams drop the ball there to a large degree.

[Purple bruise]

Off season talk so I put it here: http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 191fe585ea

[Mothman]

They were lucky IMO. Warner was never "developed"....he was bagging groceries at one point. He was simply just a NFL miracle.

Yes, I understand he appeared on the Rams doorstep in a basket with a note, right when they needed him most.

Warner was developed in almost exactly the way I'm talking about. He wasn't drafted by the Rams but they scouted him in the Arena League, signed him, sent him to NFL Europe to work on his game (where he did well), developed him for a season (I think it was just one) as their third string QB, promoted him to second string when his progress merited that move and the rest is history. Green went down and Warner took the league by storm.

Were the Rams lucky that Warner turned out to be an MVP-quality QB? Sure, but it's not like they stumbled into him accidentally in 1999. There was a process of scouting and development involved and it paid off in a big way. It's not unlike the way the Vikes developed Brad Johnson, although the Vikes didn't hang onto him.

It's a shame NFLE isn't around anymore. It was a good place to get players post-college experience "under fire".

Obviously, Warner's an exceptional case that's not going to be repeated often but a young QB doesn't have to become the next Kurt Warner to offer more upside than journeymen like Cassel and Hill.

[Mothman]

I don't think we disagree ...I'm just extrapolating the conversation some, and pointing out that you can't get lucky if you don't make the pick. And when your team is looking more solid top to bottom, QB is a good spot to push your luck on. I think most teams drop the ball there to a large degree.

Bingo. I obviously agree and since a glorious example of how investing a mid-round pick in a QB can pay off just started in back-to-back Super Bowls, it's amazing that there's ever debate about this at all.

It's the most important position in sports. It's hard to believe a wise investment in the position could ever be a poor choice.

[fiestavike]

Yes, I understand he appeared on the Rams doorstep in a basket with a note, right when they needed him most.

Warner was developed in almost exactly the way I'm talking about. He wasn't drafted by the Rams but they scouted him in the Arena League, signed him, sent him to NFL Europe to work on his game (where he did well), developed him for a season (I think it was just one) as their third string QB, promoted him to second string when his progress merited that move and the rest is history. Green went down and Warner took the league by storm.

Were the Rams lucky that Warner turned out to be an MVP-quality QB? Sure, but it's not like they stumbled into him accidentally in 1999. There was a process of scouting and development involved and it paid off in a big way. It's not unlike the way the Vikes developed Brad Johnson, although the Vikes didn't hang onto him.

It's a shame NFLE isn't around anymore. It was a good place to get players post-college experience "under fire".

Obviously, Warner's an exceptional case that's not going to be repeated often but a young QB doesn't have to become the next Kurt Warner to offer more upside than journeymen like Cassel and Hill.

I really don't understand why the NFL hasn't developed regional farm teams. A vikings subsidiary in Iowa or the Dakotas where Vikings fans could watch developing players would be a huge draw. They could probably charge 100 bucks for a season package and get vikings fans all over the country to cough it up.

The problem with marketing NFL europe at home in the US was that the players affiliated with NFL teams were just scattered about. If the Scottish Claymores, or whatever they were called, were all b team vikings not only would vikings fans have been interested in the Claymores, but the Scottish fans would have a natural allegiance to an NFL team. If they had done that I think the sport would be much bigger in Europe than it is today.

[Mothman]

I really don't understand why the NFL hasn't developed regional farm teams. A vikings subsidiary in Iowa or the Dakotas where Vikings fans could watch developing players would be a huge draw. They could probably charge 100 bucks for a season package and get vikings fans all over the country to cough it up.

It is r that they haven't done this yet. It seems like it could benefit the league in a number of ways.

The problem with marketing NFL europe at home in the US was that the players affiliated with NFL teams were just scattered about. If the Scottish Claymores, or whatever they were called, were all b team vikings not only would vikings fans have been interested in the Claymores, but the Scottish fans would have a natural allegiance to an NFL team. If they had done that I think the sport would be much bigger in Europe than it is today.

Agreed.

I'm assuming they didn't do that with NFLE because there weren't 32 teams to match the 32 NFL teams but they still could have done something like you're suggesting. For example, if they were to create a farm league here, perhaps it could be composed of 16 teams, and each of them would be comprised of "farm league" players from two specific NFL teams.

[Texas Vike]

I really don't understand why the NFL hasn't developed regional farm teams. A vikings subsidiary in Iowa or the Dakotas where Vikings fans could watch developing players would be a huge draw. They could probably charge 100 bucks for a season package and get vikings fans all over the country to cough it up.

The problem with marketing NFL europe at home in the US was that the players affiliated with NFL teams were just scattered about. If the Scottish Claymores, or whatever they were called, were all b team vikings not only would vikings fans have been interested in the Claymores, but the Scottish fans would have a natural allegiance to an NFL team. If they had done that I think the sport would be much bigger in Europe than it is today.

Goodell should hire you. Solid take.