Panthers @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 13

[PurpleKoolaid]

Rhodes does continue to impress. He isn't getting those nitpicking penalties either. I always try and take a quick look and try and see if Rhodes is covering the receiver the ball is being thrown to. What a relief to have confidence in a CB! We have 2 really solid DBs now, and Blanton and Josh are so so, but good enough to start.

How sad is it that Johnson has beat out our first round draft pick in Patterson? What, the coaches cant coach CP but they could Johnson in a few weeks? CP is a huge disappointment, and I think Norv is just fed up with his poor play. But Kalil looked better, and I was watching him pretty close. He stepped up when we needed him. The jury is out on Harris, but is he really all we have? What happens if Kalil goes down?

And Kyle showed up. What a great target he will be for Teddy. Cant wait for our running gain to start up, and our rushing D to get its act together.

[J. Kapp 11]

Rhodes does continue to impress. He isn't getting those nitpicking penalties either. I always try and take a quick look and try and see if Rhodes is covering the receiver the ball is being thrown to. What a relief to have confidence in a CB! We have 2 really solid DBs now, and Blanton and Josh are so so, but good enough to start.

How sad is it that Johnson has beat out our first round draft pick in Patterson? What, the coaches cant coach CP but they could Johnson in a few weeks? CP is a huge disappointment, and I think Norv is just fed up with his poor play. But Kalil looked better, and I was watching him pretty close. He stepped up when we needed him. The jury is out on Harris, but is he really all we have? What happens if Kalil goes down?

And Kyle showed up. What a great target he will be for Teddy. Cant wait for our running gain to start up, and our rushing D to get its act together.

Honestly, I think our rush D is going to look pretty similar to this until we get better talent at LB. I've been watching our D-line hold the line of scrimmage with little push by the other teams' O-lines, but patient running backs are planting that foot and heading upfield with little in the way of linebackers plugging the holes. Our linebackers are constantly getting swept up in overpursuit.

I'm with you on Patterson. I know it's "only" his second year, but he must really be stinking up the joint in practice to get beat out by Johnson. No disrespect meant to Johnson, who is very fast, but there's no way a 1st-rounder with CP's talent should get beat out by a 7th round pick from Grand Valley State -- who by the way is also in his second year.

Rhodes is turning into a flat-out stud. It's really tough to complete a pass against him. Munnerlyn is the one giving up the completions. Josh Robinson again played well, but got beat on a big play. I still think he's an improving player. Another guy who quietly played an excellent game today was Harrison Smith. Of course, good play from that guy ceased to be a surprise a long time ago.

And yeah, I was kind of keeping my eye on Kalil, too -- as I'm sure many of us were. He looked better. Don't think he gave up much of anything today.

[PurpleMustReign]

Honestly, I think our rush D is going to look pretty similar to this until we get better talent at LB. I've been watching our D-line hold the line of scrimmage with little push by the other teams' O-lines, but patient running backs are planting that foot and heading upfield with little in the way of linebackers plugging the holes. Our linebackers are constantly getting swept up in overpursuit.

I'm with you on Patterson. I know it's "only" his second year, but he must really be stinking up the joint in practice to get beat out by Johnson. No disrespect meant to Johnson, who is very fast, but there's no way a 1st-rounder with CP's talent should get beat out by a 7th round pick from Grand Valley State -- who by the way is also in his second year.

Rhodes is turning into a flat-out stud. It's really tough to complete a pass against him. Munnerlyn is the one giving up the completions. Josh Robinson again played well, but got beat on a big play. I still think he's an improving player. Another guy who quietly played an excellent game today was Harrison Smith. Of course, good play from that guy ceased to be a surprise a long time ago.

And yeah, I was kind of keeping my eye on Kalil, too -- as I'm sure many of us were. He looked better. Don't think he gave up much of anything today.

Charles Johnson drops a few, but he really plays well for a 7th round pick... if he can get rid of his dropsies, he will be a good find for us. He always gets separation on his routes.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Honestly, I think our rush D is going to look pretty similar to this until we get better talent at LB. I've been watching our D-line hold the line of scrimmage with little push by the other teams' O-lines, but patient running backs are planting that foot and heading upfield with little in the way of linebackers plugging the holes. Our linebackers are constantly getting swept up in overpursuit.

I'm with you on Patterson. I know it's "only" his second year, but he must really be stinking up the joint in practice to get beat out by Johnson. No disrespect meant to Johnson, who is very fast, but there's no way a 1st-rounder with CP's talent should get beat out by a 7th round pick from Grand Valley State -- who by the way is also in his second year.

Rhodes is turning into a flat-out stud. It's really tough to complete a pass against him. Munnerlyn is the one giving up the completions. Josh Robinson again played well, but got beat on a big play. I still think he's an improving player. Another guy who quietly played an excellent game today was Harrison Smith. Of course, good play from that guy ceased to be a surprise a long time ago.

And yeah, I was kind of keeping my eye on Kalil, too -- as I'm sure many of us were. He looked better. Don't think he gave up much of anything today.

I'm afraid your right about needing a MLB. I had hoped Cole, Mauti, Hodges, someone, could step up, but it doesn't look like it. Greenway and Japser are going to be gone I think next year. A true mike, 3-4 college years of practice, might be better with our first pick. Hope for Parker with the second pick. But a good run stuffing mike would make a huge difference, with our secondary looking better every game.

[Demi]

No disrespect meant to Johnson, who is very fast, but there's no way a 1st-rounder with CP's talent should get beat out by a 7th round pick from Grand Valley State

Considering recent history. I think a 7th round WR drafted by the Packers is probably a safer bet than a first round WR drafted by the Vikings.

Rhodes is turning into a flat-out stud.

Pretty amazing how much better he's looked lately. Plays physical but still stays with his guy. Breaks up passes left and right. Looks easily like a top 5 corner. Also feels like he's adjusted and plays that may have got a flag earlier in his career he's not being quite as aggressive on and doing just enough to make the play, but not get the call.

Don't think he gave up much of anything today.

Was there more back/tight end help? A few times it seemed like the back was chipping or he was blocking in and a tight end/back was taking the outside guy. He had that play where he got beat and pushed his guy toward Teddy in the end zone too. But overall not too bad.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I did hear that Patterson has been banged up this week and also missed a few days of practice due to a family funeral. I'm not sure if this had anything to do with today or not. He looked very good against TB and has been a ghost since. However, he is the biggest threat/play maker on this team with the ball in his hands. Maybe he shouldn't be getting many snaps but to get none at all in the first half boggles my mind and I don't agree with it at all. Especially when we have no type of running game. You find ways to get him the ball. We gave it to him 3 times vs St. Louis and have barely handed it to him since. We know what he can do with the ball in his hands. I don't agree with just not using him at all. Maybe as a WR, he's raw, but put the ball in your biggest playmakers hands one way or the other.

For example, why are we running quick screens to guys like Jarius Wright and Charles Johnson and running Wright on a REVERSE no less when you have a guy on the sideline that has a much better chance of taking it to the house. I don't agree with that at all. Use him as a gadget player if need be. Don't just bench him to bench him. For some reason I feel like there is more behind this that we don't know

[losperros]

For example, why are we running quick screens to guys like Jarius Wright and Charles Johnson and running Wright on a REVERSE no less when you have a guy on the sideline that has a much better chance of taking it to the house. I don't agree with that at all. Use him as a gadget player if need be. Don't just bench him to bench him. For some reason I feel like there is more behind this that we don't know

You're exactly right. This is what Souhan had to say about it:

Patterson became perhaps the best kickoff returner in the NFL as a rookie. In the final six games of his rookie season, offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave began incorporating Patterson into the offense, and Patterson became a threat to score every time he touched the ball.

In his second year, playing for offensive coordinator Norv Turner, Patterson was again spectacular in the season opener. Since then, he has been asked to be a conventional receiver rather than a hybrid, and he has become unproductive.

It's the constant attempt by Turner to pound a square peg into a round hole. Musgrave figured out how to use Patterson. And Turner can't or won't? Seriously? A system should be built around the players, rather than force feed itself on the players.

I've heard the complaints about Patterson not running good routes or he must not be good in practice, or whatever. Okay, I understand that a guy like Greg Jennings runs cleaner routes than CP. OTOH, there is no WR on the team that can do what Patterson does when he touches the ball. He's a standout on the team in that way. Patterson wasn't drafted to be a possession receiver. He is an offensive machine and big play guy. Put the freakin' ball in his hands.

[J. Kapp 11]

According to Vikings.com, Xavier Rhodes had three more pass breakups on Sunday. The Vikings tallied eight on the day, along with four sacks, and Cam Newton completed only 51% of his passes for just 5.5 YPA and a 51.2 QBR.

The Vikings' status as a top-three pass defense should be safe for another week.

[losperros]

According to Vikings.com, Xavier Rhodes had three more pass breakups on Sunday. The Vikings tallied eight on the day, along with four sacks, and Cam Newton completed only 51% of his passes for just 5.5 YPA and a 51.2 QBR.

The Vikings' status as a top-three pass defense should be safe for another week.

In my view, Rhodes is playing lights out football! I think this kid is turning into an outstanding DB, and I'd go so far to say that he's getting noticed by the opposing quarterbacks and offensive coordinators.

I also think Josh Robinson has come along way since last season, which is great to see.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You're exactly right. This is what Souhan had to say about it:
It's the constant attempt by Turner to pound a square peg into a round hole. Musgrave figured out how to use Patterson. And Turner can't or won't? Seriously? A system should be built around the players, rather than force feed itself on the players.

I've heard the complaints about Patterson not running good routes or he must not be good in practice, or whatever. Okay, I understand that a guy like Greg Jennings runs cleaner routes than CP. OTOH, there is no WR on the team that can do what Patterson does when he touches the ball. He's a standout on the team in that way. Patterson wasn't drafted to be a possession receiver. He is an offensive machine and big play guy. Put the freakin' ball in his hands.

Bingo!! I wish there was a way we could explain this to Turner because he obviously doesn't understand that. When Turner was hired supposedly the first thing he did was put in 10 plays for CP specifically.....where are those 10 plays??? Why aren't they used??? Is there something we may not know?? I have no clue but it drives me nuts to watch. Zimmer is great using guys to their strength so you think it would rub off on Turner but obviously not. Come on Norval!!!

[Demi]

For example, why are we running quick screens to guys like Jarius Wright and Charles Johnson and running Wright on a REVERSE no less when you have a guy on the sideline that has a much better chance of taking it to the house. I don't agree with that at all. Use him as a gadget player if need be. Don't just bench him to bench him. For some reason I feel like there is more behind this that we don't know

That's what seemed odd. Patterson is out, then they start running that stuff even more. Seemed like Norv got beer muscles once they were up by two scores. Empty back field, shotgun...where is this stuff when we're not playing a bottom of the barrel three win Panthers team at home.

[S197]

I hope Floyd is okay too, he's another guy who is really coming along strong. Between Floyd, Griffen, Barr, Rhodes, and Smith, you have a pretty solid core of guys who you can build around. I also thought Blanton played well, he was quieter in the 2nd half but he makes plays and doesn't seem like much of a liability to me. Same with Hodges, played well in relief duty.

[S197]

For example, why are we running quick screens to guys like Jarius Wright and Charles Johnson and running Wright on a REVERSE no less when you have a guy on the sideline that has a much better chance of taking it to the house. I don't agree with that at all. Use him as a gadget player if need be. Don't just bench him to bench him. For some reason I feel like there is more behind this that we don't know

Both Wright and Johnson are 4.3-4.4 type guys so I don't see it as much of an issue running those sort of plays with them, Johnson looked good on the WR screen early in the game. But I think you're right in something is up with Patterson. Maybe he's banged up or maybe the coaching staff finally felt they needed to go in another direction to see if it would spark the offense. I posted a tweet during the game where Patterson basically stopped and stood still while Bridgewater was scrambling (Rudolph continued to run downfield to open a lane). It could be stuff like that, basic mental errors that hurt the team. I know no one is giving up on him yet but everyone knew he was a high risk pick, which is why I think WR is probably the biggest need this offseason. The Vikings need some sort of succession plan if things don't pan out.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Both Wright and Johnson are 4.3-4.4 type guys so I don't see it as much of an issue running those sort of plays with them, Johnson looked good on the WR screen early in the game. But I think you're right in something is up with Patterson. Maybe he's banged up or maybe the coaching staff finally felt they needed to go in another direction to see if it would spark the offense. I posted a tweet during the game where Patterson basically stopped and stood still while Bridgewater was scrambling (Rudolph continued to run downfield to open a lane). It could be stuff like that, basic mental errors that hurt the team. I know no one is giving up on him yet but everyone knew he was a high risk pick, which is why I think WR is probably the biggest need this offseason. The Vikings need some sort of succession plan if things don't pan out.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it specifically. I'm just saying I would much rather have the ball in Pattersons hands in those instances. There wasn't a player on the field today or even most days for that matter that can do what Patterson does with the ball in his hands

[saint33]

Both Wright and Johnson are 4.3-4.4 type guys so I don't see it as much of an issue running those sort of plays with them, Johnson looked good on the WR screen early in the game. But I think you're right in something is up with Patterson. Maybe he's banged up or maybe the coaching staff finally felt they needed to go in another direction to see if it would spark the offense. I posted a tweet during the game where Patterson basically stopped and stood still while Bridgewater was scrambling (Rudolph continued to run downfield to open a lane). It could be stuff like that, basic mental errors that hurt the team. I know no one is giving up on him yet but everyone knew he was a high risk pick, which is why I think WR is probably the biggest need this offseason. The Vikings need some sort of succession plan if things don't pan out.

I don't think the issue is that they can't run those plays. The issue is that when you have a player with the capability of taking those types of plays to the house whenever he runs them, why are we giving it to players who likely can't without really great blocking. It just baffles me that Turner simply can't figure out how to create a role for a player who's so talented with the ball in his hands.