Time to see what Zimmer is made of

[Mothman]

Mike Zimmer 'tired' of undisciplined Vikings

Mike Zimmer was fed up on Sunday after suffering his fourth loss this season, dropping 17-3 to the Lions on Sunday.
“I’m extremely disappointed about this loss,” Zimmer said. “I can handle getting beat. I can’t handle getting our butts whipped like that.”

“We practice good,” Zimmer said. “Sundays we don’t play as good as we need to. That’s the thing I can’t figure out. Why don’t we play like we practice?
Zimmer said he’s having a difficult time judging the players on his team, but he doesn’t feel it’s his job to please them. In fact, Zimmer said it’s the other way around as the head coach.

“I’m going to continue to preach the message,” Zimmer said. “It’s not going to change.”

There's a bit more at the link. It's an "Access Vikings" blog entry, so it's not a long article.

[mansquatch]

The best thing about this season so far is that we no longer are thinking that the play of the QB is the biggest problem on the the team.

The bad news is that the play of the OL, WR, and RB have all taken turns donning wearing that crown...

UGH!

This is just my arm chair QB opinion, but I think the issue is entirely psychological. I think something is going on in that lockerroom. My guess is at least part of it is some shellshock going from a Frasier management style to a Zimmer style.

OL is the most glaring issue right now. I have no idea what is going on there. Was Fusco that big of an emotional cornerstone? Then there is Kalil? No sense beating that deadhorse, but WTF? Glad I went fishing yesterday and only endured the game via short doses of the broadcast.

[fiestavike]

This is just my arm chair QB opinion, but I think the issue is entirely psychological. I think something is going on in that lockerroom. My guess is at least part of it is some shellshock going from a Frasier management style to a Zimmer style.

OL is the most glaring issue right now. I have no idea what is going on there. Was Fusco that big of an emotional cornerstone? Then there is Kalil? No sense beating that deadhorse, but WTF? Glad I went fishing yesterday and only endured the game via short doses of the broadcast.

They are physically outmatched. I don't think its psychological, except maybe to degree with Kalil, but he is also not a powerful blocker.

[mansquatch]

They are physically outmatched. I don't think its psychological, except maybe to degree with Kalil, but he is also not a powerful blocker.

Aside from Ducasse, this same group was getting some positive results last season. I find it hard to believe that suddenly the 6 defenses we've played this year got so much physically stronger that our group is now weak and pathetic. I just do not buy it. Our guys are in the tank for some reason and they need to get out of it.

[fiestavike]

Aside from Ducasse, this same group was getting some positive results last season. I find it hard to believe that suddenly the 6 defenses we've played this year got so much physically stronger that our group is now weak and pathetic. I just do not buy it. Our guys are in the tank for some reason and they need to get out of it.

But you have to remember that results and performance are not the same thing. They have not performed well for many years. They have had some good results, especially in the running game. that has more to do with 28 than the guys up front. Without 28 to keep defenses honest, and with Kalil's continued deterioration, and with Fusco's injury, they are really bad. And last year they were really bad too.

[Mothman]

Aside from Ducasse, this same group was getting some positive results last season. I find it hard to believe that suddenly the 6 defenses we've played this year got so much physically stronger that our group is now weak and pathetic. I just do not buy it. Our guys are in the tank for some reason and they need to get out of it.

The Lions really pushed them around in week 1 last year. However, if I remember correctly, the line performed much better against them in the last game of the year.

Peterson's presence and talent made more difference to the team than I think some care to admit but honestly, the problems this line is having aren't new. I think there has always been a level of denial associated with them. When Ponder played, many of their shortcomings were pushed on him. When Cassel played, people seemed to want to overlook the bad blocking, even though teams like the Bengals badly exposed it last year. Loadholt's slow and way too vulnerable to a quick rush.. Kalil and Johnson don't seem to communicate well and Kalil's footwork seems sloppier than it was before. I'm starting to wonder about Sullivan's line calls since it seems like the line has struggled more against blitzes and shifting fronts since Birk's departure. DuCasse is just a big step down from Fusco.

[mansquatch]

Jim, I do not deny your points, however it still begs the question of "why are they so much worse than last year?"

The margin for error is pretty slim in the NFL. The difference between bad and good is but a few small errors. Talent helps, but I do not believe our linemen are "just that much worse" than everyone else. I think it is psychological. For whatever reason this group and the continuity the front office has been so big on, just is not producing the results the team needs, let alone what the team is paying for.

My only hope is that is the issue is mental, they'll be able to sort it out. Sunday was a highly winnable game that they let slip away for no good reason at all.

[Mothman]

Jim, I do not deny your points, however it still begs the question of "why are they so much worse than last year?"

Part of what I was getting at in my previous post, but I failed to actually articulate it, is that I don't think the o-line is much worse than last year. The drop in performance from Fusco to Ducasse is noticeable but aside from that, I see the same line, without the benefit of Peterson to help mask some of their flaws. We saw pressure and sack-heavy performances from them last year too (for example, they gave up 6 sacks against both GB and Cleveland, 4 against Cincy). They've simply never been very consistent or reliable in pass protection and without the need to worry about Peterson breaking a big run or any established threat down the field, defenses are rushing the Vikes fearlessly. They aren't worried about negative consequences, especially because in a lot of these games, the opposing team is playing with a multi-score lead.

The margin for error is pretty slim in the NFL. The difference between bad and good is but a few small errors. Talent helps, but I do not believe our linemen are "just that much worse" than everyone else. I think it is psychological. For whatever reason this group and the continuity the front office has been so big on, just is not producing the results the team needs, let alone what the team is paying for.

My only hope is that is the issue is mental, they'll be able to sort it out. Sunday was a highly winnable game that they let slip away for no good reason at all.

I think you're probably right that there's a psychological component to their struggles, although that sort of thing is pretty hard to pin down. They may be making some mental errors in Norv's new system too. I think a lot of it is just game circumstances and talent. The best thing the Vikes could do for their OL right now, aside from making personnel changes, might be to start playing better defense in the first quarter, keep from falling behind and establish and stick with the running game. When a line is able to really get physical and run block, it tends to build their confidence. Unfortunately, if I remember correctly, they're about to play the top-ranked run defense in the NFL.

[mosscarter]

no matter how you slice it they just aren't a very good team. of course losing peterson is a huge blow, but i still expected much more from this team offensively. i expected patterson to have 3 or 4 td's by now and yet he looks invisible. and jennings really hasn't done much since we signed him. i know ponder throwing to him last year was a huge issue; but where has he been? now it appears we have a line that suddenly can't block at all. its a mess.

[Mothman]

Check out Zimmer's comments from approximately the 5:40 mark to the 6:40 mark:

http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 3b28489b1b

[44crm]

Well, fining players IS the reaction of a disciplinarian but unfortunately, just because he's a disciplinarian, that doesn't mean everyone will automatically get in line and do as they're told.

That said, you do have to wonder what's going on.

As I said last week, I think there may be some character issues with this team. If so, I'm betting Zimmer will identify those players and they won't be Vikings next year.

I have to agree that there are some character issues, and some players not taking this seriously, and they are going to be tested by Zimmer, and some starters are going to end up back ups. After watching his press conference, he was so pissed he almost dropped the F Bomb and barely stopped himself. We have no one stepping up as a leader.

I dont know about any of you, but sack after sack I saw Viking's linemen just standing above teddy while he is being smashed by the Lion's players. Not one linemen was pulling the Lions players off OR helping Teddy up. WTH is wrong with you that you wont help your rookie QB up after he gets driven into the ground because you don't know how to block? I want our whole line benched if necessary.

There are going to be some cuts by the end of this season and I wont be surprised if a few starters are gone. So much for continuity at the Oline

[mansquatch]

Oh I agree there are going to be cuts and it isn't just the OL. Zimmer wants people in here that are going to commit to his style of football, not just on the field, but off the field. Guys that are not buying into that are going to find the door sooner or later.

I hate to say it, but I suspect that CP84, might be one of the guys not getting it, not doing the work. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to get a sense that he is one of those athletes that survives on his talent.

[Mothman]

Vikings: With day to think, Mike Zimmer backs off criticisms

Vikings coach Mike Zimmer has shifted his threats from taking away players' money to taking away their playing time.

In the immediate wake of Sunday's 17-3 loss to Detroit at TCF Bank Stadium, Zimmer told reporters his players have been late too often for meetings and treatment sessions and vowed to fine future offenders to the "max."

The first-year head coach backed off those comments Monday.

"I know one of the hot topics was this fine thing," Zimmer said. "That was probably Zimmer being Zimmer. I was not in the best frame of mind at the time. This team has not had an issue, continually an issue, of being late. Every time a guy's been late, been anywhere, I've fined him, so it's not been an issue. I had two practice squad players miss lifting on Saturday, so that was kind of sticking in my mind."

Zimmer met with his players Monday after a second straight ugly loss. He was said to have told them he will use the hammer of playing time if the team's struggles continue.

"It was straightforward," fullback Jerome Felton said. "(Zimmer said), 'If you don't perform, you won't play.' And that's what people understand, that's what players understand, and that's what the case will be moving forward."

[Just Me]

Vikings: With day to think, Mike Zimmer backs off criticisms

So what does 5 against 11 football look like, anyway?

[BGM]

What is Zimmer made of? Glass and nails and rattlesnake tails.

I hope.