PHP's Full-Throttle Mock Offseason

[Demi]

Wasn't that the list that was brought up when we drafted Ponder?

[PurpleMustReign]

Wasn't that the list that was brought up when we drafted Ponder?

Pretty much. Amd they said how smart he was

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[S197]

Wasn't that the list that was brought up when we drafted Ponder?

I don't recall but Ponder was often injured so while technically he was a 3-year starter, it wasn't as consistent as McCarron. Anyway, I just brought it up because Zimmer is a Parcells guy so I'm trying to guess who he might be targeting outside the 1st round. It wasn't an endorsement.

[King James]

Ponder has only played 2 full seasons and his only good season was his senior year. He was not consistent in college, AT ALL. Why Spielman picked him is beyond me. His first year as a starter he completed less than 60% of his passes. Not to mention he's injury prone. One thing for sure, he is college career is nowhere as near as good as McCarron's.

As for Ponder being smart, I think they were referring to his grades more to his football IQ.

[dead_poet]

Why Spielman picked him is beyond me.

If memory serves, we desperately needed a quarterback (sound familiar?) and three were off the board already. In retrospect, it would've been smarter to wait and select Kaepernick (or Mallet, MAYBE). I really doubt Ponder was graded higher on his board than, say, Fairley, Quinn, Pouncy or Amukamara. But make no mistake about it, our QB situation was desperate.

His first year as a starter he completed less than 60% of his passes.

That's not uncommon for most rookie quarterbacks, including many with a bust sitting in Canton.

One thing for sure, he is college career is nowhere as near as good as McCarron's.

Well, his team was nowhere as good as McCarron's either.

As for Ponder being smart, I think they were referring to his grades more to his football IQ.

It's both. I've read several places about his high football IQ. His football execution, however, leaves a lot to be desired.

[Loki]

I'm fine with AJ McCarron as long as its 3rd round or later. I see him being another Andy Dalton type who can be a good starter but won't ever be the franchise type guy and while you start him you don't have to reach on a QB but you're still just waiting for the franchise type guy.

[Loki]

Just curious for those who are for Mettenberer what round do you see us taking him? and what Qb's would you rank ahead of him?

[King James]

If memory serves, we desperately needed a quarterback (sound familiar?) and three were off the board already. In retrospect, it would've been smarter to wait and select Kaepernick (or Mallet, MAYBE). I really doubt Ponder was graded higher on his board than, say, Fairley, Quinn, Pouncy or Amukamara. But make no mistake about it, our QB situation was desperate.

That shouldn't be the case for McCarron because I would see him going 2nd-3rd round anyway.

That's not uncommon for most rookie quarterbacks, including many with a bust sitting in Canton.

I was just comparing him to the other QBs since someone made a comment about not wanting a QB who finishes 60% of their passes.

Well, his team was nowhere as good as McCarron's either.

This will always be the main argument against McCarron. That he benefited from a great team. I think in 2009 Ponder was on the brink of having a career season but that injury shattered those dreams. He was on a roll that season.

It's both. I've read several places about his high football IQ. His football execution, however, leaves a lot to be desired.

That could be the case. I've always heard more about his academics then during the draft season the talk about IQ came up. Sometimes I think people include his school GPA and try to mix it in with football. Just my theory though.

[SaintCity86]

I never said we should have gone up to get cam.

We couldn't.

What I'm saying is, taking Ponder at 12 isn't the same thing as taking cam number 1.


We need a qb.

And the reason we've never been bad enough to pick that high in the Draft, means that were always a mediocre team picking on the middle of the Draft. When a couple years ago, if we had just lost 2 more games, instead of winning 3, win 1... and we could have picked high.

But the organization would rather win 3 games in the season, rather than position for the number one pick on the Draft, when luck, the best qb to come out in 20 years, was coming out that year.

That's what the vikings are. Mediocre. And it's starting to look like they are happy with the profits this team brings in, the way it is. Our owners aren't interested in Super bowls. They're interested in profits. Why do you think we have so much cap space, but never spend any money on players?

We rarely try getting to free agents either. We're always picking up the Josh freemans of the nfl.

Why didn't we try to get Alex Smith?

The fact that you guys aren't up in arms over the decisions made in this organization is ridiculous.


You guys keep rooting for the same old #### over and over if you want. ...I want a super bowl in Minnesota. That IS NOT going to happen without a star qb. End of story

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[SaintCity86]

And I agree with the people who hays the ponder pick. I hated that pick the second it happened, and I was never on board the entire time he played.

He got people thinking he was good Cuz of that one Packers game when we almost beat them. But I wasnt fooled.

We through that pick away on ponder. We could have traded back, and still got him in the second or third.

I wanted locker that season, but that only Cuz I was picking skeins so wasnt cam, and he was the best next to cam. But ponder was a waste.

We need to invest in a qb that we think is good enough to mold over 3 years, and keep possibly the next 15 years, the build build build.

But building a team without a qb... Just wears down the rest of the team while they lose game after game after game.

The Lions at one point had 15 starting first round Draft picks, and didn't get anywhere till they had stafford.

Qb. Bottom line. Everything else is a waste

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[SaintCity86]

Ok listen....Franchise QB's do not grow on trees. So what would be your genius idea in the 2011 draft??? Trade up for Gabbert?? Locker?? And if you're going to sit there and say we should have traded up for Cam, I am going to tell you that you're out of your mind because going from 12 down to 1 would probably cost us draft picks for the next 2-3 years and the holes on this team would be through the roof.

As for your obsession with RGIII, I would still take Kalil and the trade-down we did any day over trading half of our draft away for him. Also, entering that season, Ponder didn't have a full season as a starter yet and we had to give him that chance. You can't spend a 1st round pick on a QB in 2011 and then trade away half your draft for a QB in 2012. Can you name me a team that has ever done that?? No.

It also drives me nuts when "fans" say that the Vikings didn't lose the games they were "suppose to" in 2011 in order to get Luck. That's crap and will always be crap. The NFL is a job for players and coaches. Coaches aren't going to go in a locker room and say "Hey guys, we want Luck so go out and lose on purpose today". That just doesn't happen, I don't care what anyone says. Do you go into your job everyday and give no effort in hope to get a raise?? No. I really can't stand when people say "Why didn't we lose that game?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5wr82ZRUjc
^This is tape of Carr from this past year. Watch it. You can't sit there and tell me Bortles is above and beyond what Carr is. Carr can flat out play, I love the guys attitude, might easily be the hardest working QB in this class, is a leader, has a rocket/monster arm and is VERY good value in the 2nd round or late in the first if we decide to trade up in order to get him. I would take Carr in the 2nd ANY DAY over a trade up for Bortles in the 1st. We can definitely be patient in the 1st, trade down and take defense and then grab our QB in the 2nd. If Carr is gone, I would love to take Garappolo. Bill Polian believes he is a 1st round pick. He would also be great value in the 2nd. If we are able to trade down in the 1st or even stay at 8 and take Mack or Mosely, and then come back in the 2nd with Carr or Garappolo, I would much rather have that. It sounds much more appealing than throwing aw ay valuable picks for a guy like Bortles who, personally, I don't believe will be any better than Carr or Garappolo.

It is not crap that teams lose games on purpose to position themselves.

The Colts did it with luck And with Manning. So #### off. It happens all the time. The vikings seen to be the only team to good to do it. And it translates. 0 superbowls

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[SaintCity86]

And one last thing.

A highlight reel isn't tape.

Anybody will look good, if all you do is look at their highlights.

It does seem like he checks down a lot better though. I'll give you that. But I'm not expecting bortles to be perfect coming out.

I'd rather have mariota. That's my pick. For next year.

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[Mothman]

But the organization would rather win 3 games in the season, rather than position for the number one pick on the Draft, when luck, the best qb to come out in 20 years, was coming out that year.

Yep. They showed integrity, a quality that's actually worth rooting for, instead of intentionally losing games, which is quite the opposite.

The fact that you guys aren't up in arms over the decisions made in this organization is ridiculous.

You guys keep rooting for the same old #### over and over if you want. ...I want a super bowl in Minnesota. That IS NOT going to happen without a star qb. End of story

... and there are the inevitable "you guys" comments. You seem to love posting those almost as much as you love stating how "we" need a QB in every post.

You claim you aren't a troll but you behave like one, making ridiculous, accusatory "you guys" generalizations in every other post and repeatedly making the exact same point ("we need a QB!") while trashing the organization you supposedly want to see win. Since joining the board you've been hostile, tedious and repetitive... in other words, you're behaving like a troll.

[Purple bruise]

It is not crap that teams lose games on purpose to position themselves.

The Colts did it with luck And with Manning. So #### off. It happens all the time. The vikings seen to be the only team to good to do it. And it translates. 0 superbowls

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Losing games on purpose , as you suggest that the Colts did, is ludicrous. If a team ever was found out to be losing games on purpose they would be heavily fined and penalized (most likely with forfiture of draft picks). The fans do not pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend games and watch their teams purposefully lose That being said, show me any Colt's game or any other NFL game played in the modern era where a team lost intentionally. If you pan back through the previous threads you will find that this "losing games on purpose" topic has been discussed to ad nauseam.
And oh by the way, I just love your 20/20 hindsight and how you seem to think that you know everything

[frosted]

And I agree with the people who hays the ponder pick. I hated that pick the second it happened, and I was never on board the entire time he played.

He got people thinking he was good Cuz of that one Packers game when we almost beat them. But I wasnt fooled.

We through that pick away on ponder. We could have traded back, and still got him in the second or third.

I wanted locker that season, but that only Cuz I was picking skeins so wasnt cam, and he was the best next to cam. But ponder was a waste.

We need to invest in a qb that we think is good enough to mold over 3 years, and keep possibly the next 15 years, the build build build.

But building a team without a qb... Just wears down the rest of the team while they lose game after game after game.

The Lions at one point had 15 starting first round Draft picks, and didn't get anywhere till they had stafford.

Qb. Bottom line. Everything else is a waste

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Yeah, true, the Lions have been fantastic since drafting Stafford..oh he is 24-37 as a starting quarterback. Wait, what were you saying?

And you still haven't replied to my last post to you. You stated we let Tarkenton get "worn out behind #### QBs". Fran WAS a QB, so how does that work?

So, please, tell me more about your grand designs.