2014 Vikings Draft Discussion

[FrostyViking]

I think we are better defensively then we showed this year. What we need defensively is interior defensive lineman in my opinion and the DT position is pretty shallow this year. Louis Nix would be ok but he is ranked 26th overall. That would be a reach with the 8th pick. If we do go defense, Khalil Mack could be our best bet. Of course, everything could change when the combine gets here and these athletes get to showcase their abilities.

[Purple bruise]

I think we are better defensively then we showed this year. What we need defensively is interior defensive lineman in my opinion and the DT position is pretty shallow this year. Louis Nix would be ok but he is ranked 26th overall. That would be a reach with the 8th pick. If we do go defense, Khalil Mack could be our best bet. Of course, everything could change when the combine gets here and these athletes get to showcase their abilities.

OK OK we believe you

[Purple bruise]

Bortles declares himself for the draft.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/ ... nter-draft
He looked very impressive in the Fiesta Bowl . http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=340010239

If the Vikes could get Bortles in the 2nd round I would be fine with that.

[frosted]

Bortles declares himself for the draft.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/ ... nter-draft
He looked very impressive in the Fiesta Bowl . http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=340010239

If the Vikes could get Bortles in the 2nd round I would be fine with that.

Bortles looked very impressive in that game. Unfortunately, it's looking like he or Teddy B. will be the first QB off the board, and both appear to be top five picks right now. We would likely have to move up in the draft to get him. Not that that can't change between now and April, we've certainly seen that before, who saw EJ Manuel as the first QB off the board last season? I would certainly be OK with Bortles, though he seems like he may be a bit less polished than some of the other QB prospects.

[NextQuestion]

Bortles made brutal Ponder-like throws into double coverage over the middle and stared down guys like he had a crush on them in 8th grade Geography.

CAN'T WAIT!

[HardcoreVikesFan]

Bortles made brutal Ponder-like throws into double coverage over the middle and stared down guys like he had a crush on them in 8th grade Geography.

CAN'T WAIT!

Bortles' GF doh...


Hahaha, in all seriousness, I don't want him either. A.J. McCarron, Zach Mettinberger, and Blake Bortles are Ponder clones. If we draft any of them, I fear we will suffer for another three years with sub-par to par QB play.

[Purple bruise]

Bortles made brutal Ponder-like throws into double coverage over the middle and stared down guys like he had a crush on them in 8th grade Geography.

CAN'T WAIT!

Wow where do you come up with that assesment Many experts are now projecting him to be the second QB off of the board (a top 5 pick). http://fansided.com/2014/01/06/2014-nfl ... weekend/4/

[BGM]

Always beware of late risers. Bottles was on few lists of first round QBs and now suddenly he should go top ten? Happens every year, and one team always seems to buy the hype. No thanks. Second or third round maybe.

[Demi]

Bortles made brutal Ponder-like throws into double coverage over the middle and stared down guys like he had a crush on them in 8th grade Geography.

CAN'T WAIT!

Yep. Doesn't go through progressions, can't read a defense, and isn't even consistently accurate on anything downfield.

[Purple bruise]

For being sooo bad, there are a lot of professionals who make a living evaluating players that seem to disagree. I said he would be good as a second round pick.

[Demi]

And I wouldn't want him anywhere.

If I'm going for a QB, I either believe they can be a franchise QB, and take them early, or don't have that amount of faith, and wait on them. If you don't have that amount of faith in them...you shouldn't be risking the future of the franchise on them.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm not sure if any of you guys saw this video after the draft but it's pretty interesting. In this video, Spielman looks at the Wilfs and say "patience".....I'm starting to believe that he is becoming more and more patient during the draft and in turn, he has gotten very good players the last two years. It looks like his original plan going into this draft was to take Rhodes at 23 and Patterson at 25. But with Floyd falling, he looked to make that trade.....check it out!!

http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 03d02fb03e

[mondry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_tdCDj4dNY

0:47 should've stepped up into a perfect pocket, instead runs outside
0:56 what the heck is that???? tell me that isn't happy feet. The guy is panicking with no defenders within 3 yards! He decides to take off, defender steps up, and he luckily found a guy.
2:20 no need to explain the Doug Flutieness of this one.
2:42 once again, a nice pocket to throw from, but as soon as Manziel steps back, his feet can't stay still, decides to run.

0:47 - see's his guy coming open and shifts too the right for a better throwing lane. It's a good idea so the DL men in front of him can't try and jump to bat the pass down = touchdown.
0:56 - No happy feet there, it's called shifting around in the pocket, no one's open, he buys time, eventually pressure DOES get near him and he escapes it while keeping his eyes' down field = touch down.

These 2 plays alone tell me right now that he see's the field about a million times better than Ponder does. When he's shifting and sliding around that's just him using his foot work, it's not happy feet in the sense that it's destroying his throwing mechanics or he's decided to run and he's keeping his eye's down field the whole time that he does it, that's how he completes the passing TD! Ponder in similar situations for example would ALWAYS be looking to run in those situations, Manziel just threw 2 touch downs out of it, pretty impressive.

2:20 - Agreed, it's a play that could end badly in the NFL and people like to FOCUS on these types of plays but honestly they seem pretty rare to me.
2:42 - Looks like he's looking down field the whole time again and my guess is the WR's in the middle of the field were covered, he doesn't see the WR at the top of the screen and doesn't want to take the check down for 2 yards, instead picks up more on the ground. This isn't a problem imo, Manziel isn't a run first QB, but his legs are dangerous enough as a scrambling QB that when his WR's are covered the play isn't just dead and he has to throw it away, he can still make something out of it.

Now some plays I want to bring attention too

0:23 - His hot read and the design of the play is the quick throw to #23 but he sees the DB at the 25 yard line already breaking on it, instead he pulls it back down, goes to read #2 and completes it to Evans. Once again his ability to see the field is uncanny on this play, what could be a minimal gain at best or a pick 6 at worst becomes a TD when he finds a better option.

1:58 - Here's that speed I like to see, the DE isn't blocked but he just beats him anyway. You can argue an NFL DE might catch him but I doubt it. It's not about top end speed here, it's the acceleration that a 275 pound lineman won't have. We see athletic QB's in the NFL run away from lineman all the time.

2:04 - aside from bumping into the back (not sure who's at fault there) looks pretty solid out of play action on the goal line, with AD that's almost automatic. I love how accurate he is on the move.

3:28 - Nice pocket forms, but watch his helmet, you'll see he's looking right, goes to his next read on the left, comes back to the right, looks left again, and finally fires to the WR streaking over the middle. He's scanning the field and going through his reads, too me, when it comes to the mental side of the game, this is the most important thing and he's got it.

3:41 - Right away reads the defense and finds the break down in coverage, his man comes wide open and he gets the ball to him quickly.

I hope we get Manziel bad, to me he's a rich man's Russel Wilson. Yes there will be times where (like Favre) you go "what the hell was that!" but at the same time, he'll make WAY MORE plays than mistakes. He has the "it" factor, he has the talent, the tools and the football brain to read the field and defenses. You talk about his happy feet but to me I LOVE his style of awareness. It's good to have an internal clock that says "we're 3 seconds into the play, I gotta make something good happen" so maybe he leaves the pocket when he could have stayed for 1 more second, but to me it's better to be safe than sorry. If he see's an opening with his legs and can pick up a first down, I'm fine with that. Better than waiting for someone to come open and a DE finally loops all the way around and strip sacks him.

If Manziel is there at #8 I want him, if he's not, avoid QB cause the rest of them are all trash including Bortles. They're all the same guy basically, a whole bunch of Gabbert and Ponders.

[Texas Vike]

0:47 - see's his guy coming open and shifts too the right for a better throwing lane. It's a good idea so the DL men in front of him can't try and jump to bat the pass down = touchdown.
0:56 - No happy feet there, it's called shifting around in the pocket, no one's open, he buys time, eventually pressure DOES get near him and he escapes it while keeping his eyes' down field = touch down.

These 2 plays alone tell me right now that he see's the field about a million times better than Ponder does. When he's shifting and sliding around that's just him using his foot work, it's not happy feet in the sense that it's destroying his throwing mechanics or he's decided to run and he's keeping his eye's down field the whole time that he does it, that's how he completes the passing TD! Ponder in similar situations for example would ALWAYS be looking to run in those situations, Manziel just threw 2 touch downs out of it, pretty impressive.

2:20 - Agreed, it's a play that could end badly in the NFL and people like to FOCUS on these types of plays but honestly they seem pretty rare to me.
2:42 - Looks like he's looking down field the whole time again and my guess is the WR's in the middle of the field were covered, he doesn't see the WR at the top of the screen and doesn't want to take the check down for 2 yards, instead picks up more on the ground. This isn't a problem imo, Manziel isn't a run first QB, but his legs are dangerous enough as a scrambling QB that when his WR's are covered the play isn't just dead and he has to throw it away, he can still make something out of it.

Now some plays I want to bring attention too

0:23 - His hot read and the design of the play is the quick throw to #23 but he sees the DB at the 25 yard line already breaking on it, instead he pulls it back down, goes to read #2 and completes it to Evans. Once again his ability to see the field is uncanny on this play, what could be a minimal gain at best or a pick 6 at worst becomes a TD when he finds a better option.

1:58 - Here's that speed I like to see, the DE isn't blocked but he just beats him anyway. You can argue an NFL DE might catch him but I doubt it. It's not about top end speed here, it's the acceleration that a 275 pound lineman won't have. We see athletic QB's in the NFL run away from lineman all the time.

2:04 - aside from bumping into the back (not sure who's at fault there) looks pretty solid out of play action on the goal line, with AD that's almost automatic. I love how accurate he is on the move.

3:28 - Nice pocket forms, but watch his helmet, you'll see he's looking right, goes to his next read on the left, comes back to the right, looks left again, and finally fires to the WR streaking over the middle. He's scanning the field and going through his reads, too me, when it comes to the mental side of the game, this is the most important thing and he's got it.

3:41 - Right away reads the defense and finds the break down in coverage, his man comes wide open and he gets the ball to him quickly.

I hope we get Manziel bad, to me he's a rich man's Russel Wilson. Yes there will be times where (like Favre) you go "what the hell was that!" but at the same time, he'll make WAY MORE plays than mistakes. He has the "it" factor, he has the talent, the tools and the football brain to read the field and defenses. You talk about his happy feet but to me I LOVE his style of awareness. It's good to have an internal clock that says "we're 3 seconds into the play, I gotta make something good happen" so maybe he leaves the pocket when he could have stayed for 1 more second, but to me it's better to be safe than sorry. If he see's an opening with his legs and can pick up a first down, I'm fine with that. Better than waiting for someone to come open and a DE finally loops all the way around and strip sacks him.

If Manziel is there at #8 I want him, if he's not, avoid QB cause the rest of them are all trash including Bortles. They're all the same guy basically, a whole bunch of Gabbert and Ponders.

Best take I've read on Manziel yet. I watched the video in a 2nd tab and referred to your comments simultaneously: spot on. I see the same things you do: a guy with hyper-advanced football intelligence (not a guy who can get his MBA in four years, thank you very much). The more I ruminate on it the more I am convinced that Manziel will be a star in the NFL. If he falls like AD, Percy and CP84 did we will be VERY fortunate and rewarded for years.

[VikingLord]

I hope we get Manziel bad, to me he's a rich man's Russel Wilson. Yes there will be times where (like Favre) you go "what the hell was that!" but at the same time, he'll make WAY MORE plays than mistakes.

I'd say even if the times he makes plays roughly equals the times he blows plays, he still makes plays. Over his pro career Favre ended up with almost as many picks as TDs IIRC, or at the very least threw the most total INTs in NFL history, but he made big plays too. The safe stuff just doesn't cut it in the pros. A QB can't be reckless, but he has to have a degree of confidence in himself and his ability because there are times when the difference between winning and losing comes down to a tough throw being attempted or not attempted. It's a fine line for sure, but guys like Favre and Manziel know how to walk it and, in the balance, I think their teams are better off because of it.

I agree with you that it's either Bridgewater or Manziel at the top of the draft this year. I was liking Carr too, but I cooled on him considerably as of late. All the other guys in this QB class are 2-3rd round prospects IMHO. Do I like Manziel so much I'd try to trade up to get him? I probably would, but it depends on the cost.

Anyway, would love to see Spielman make a move at QB prior to the draft. If he likes Cassel, get that situation solidified. If he likes another vet, get that solidified. Go into the draft with a clear starting option at QB, then see how the chips fall and make moves based on a position of at least arguable competence rather than feeling desperate to fill the position. Then, if the right guy isn't there at the right price in the draft, at least Spielman can go BPA at the spot. The Vikes need serious help on the defensive side of the ball too, and there should be some very good prospects at LB and DT available at #8 regardless of how the first 7 picks shake out.