"Spielman Owning the Draft Once Again" Mock Offseason

[jackal]

Honestly that list of FA are most of the guys I want gone.

Everson Griffen can take Allen's spot if we can get him

Sherels we put a 2nd or third round tag on and see if we can keep him
some what cheap price

Unless Toby wants to stay for cheap (I don't he will)

good riddance to the rest of them

I know Jarad Allen will want big money and he is in decline
IMO.. plus he won't come off the field enough.

Cook and Charlie Johnson suck IMO .. See yeah

[VikingPaul73]

Even if mock "experts" are inaccurate at times, neither of you are understanding that his injury is a big reason he could fall. Especially with his uncertainty of being ready in time. How do you not understand that?? What "examples" did he state?? That Barkley was a projected first rounder?? After Barkley's crap season (at this time last year) he fell wayyyy out of the first round. When the draft became closer, Smith and Nassib also fell. Either way, all of these guys were healthy at that time. You're talking about Murray who is a guy that was a later round projection to begin with and now has a significant injury and Demi all of the sudden thinks he will be a 2nd round pick??? Why would anyone think that Murray would randomly jump 2+ rounds out of nowhere when he's injured. It just makes zero sense. Like I said, he is the only one out there that I have seen that thinks that. Why should I believe him?? I shouldn't and I won't and when the draft rolls around, I believe you will see why.

He stated what examples?? Tom Brady?? You're talking about one of the best QB's in the game. Just because he can do it doesn't mean a "middle of the pack" QB that hasn't played an NFL down can all of the sudden do it. Tom Brady was widely known as great QB before that happened. What has Murray proved?? Absolutely nothing. So what kind of example is that?? Maybe you should actually look into his posts and "examples" a little deeper than just reading the fine print.

I already said I have no idea what's on GM's draft boards nor does anyone. However, my argument isn't just "mock drafts" but I'm going along with the majority and every expert, analyst, scout, fan, and myself is saying when it comes to Murray.

And don't sit there and say "provide some independent thought and analysis". I just wrote up an entire mock offseason and provided my own thoughts and analysis on every player we picked up. That has nothing to do with me "googling" mock drafts. I write these up 100% on my own and give my opinion just like I do ever single year. Look at the link I provided....I predicted us getting Floyd and Hodges and in another mock I had Rhodes and Hodges at this time last year and justified why we took them. As you can see, many have enjoyed reading my analysis on everything but also had their questions about certain things which is 100% understandable and I expect that. You and 2 others (who we all know of) come on here and do nothing but bash everything I and everyone else says but haven't provided enough analysis for anyone to shake a stick at. So what does that say about your side of the argument? Absolutely nothing besides the negativity you 3 love to bring to this board. I've provided more analysis in this thread than you have ever provided in any thread regarding the draft or free agents so until you do that (which you probably never will), I could care less about what you think.

You are trying to obfuscate the issue here.
1. I never criticized your original post. In fact I enjoyed your original post. If I did not state that, then I apologize.
2. What did I bash about your mock draft? All I did was question your logic for attacking Aaron Murray. Relax.
3. Classic ad hominem logic. Don't address any of Demi's (or my) arguments, just state that we are negative so nothing we write should be considered.
4. You are bringing up past posts and other arguments when I am trying to discuss 1 specific point - about Aaron Murray. Who is being negative in this case? Demi thinks Murray will be a good QB and you attack both Demi and Murray. Again, who is negative in this specific case?
5. At no point did Demi even hint that Aaron Murray was as good as Tom Brady. The only comment was that they have similar styes (ie pocket passers who don't rely on their legs) and that Brady returned 100% to form after his ACL tear. Seems like a reasonable point to me. How do you refute this specific point?
6. Without citing mock drafts, please articulate why you feel Aaron Murray will not be successful in the NFL. Without citing mock drafts, please articulate why Aaron Murray would be a horrible pick in the 2nd. I freely acknowledge I am no player personnel expert (or I would have another job ) so I will freely listen to any arguments you might have with an open mind.

[VikingPaul73]

Thanks dude we both try to balance out all the doomsday mongering

Doomsday mongering? Demi stating that Aaron Murray is worth a 2nd round pick is doomsday mongering? Wow, Demi really has you two worked into a frenzy

[Pondering Her Percy]

You are trying to obfuscate the issue here.
1. I never criticized your original post. In fact I enjoyed your original post. If I did not state that, then I apologize.
2. What did I bash about your mock draft? All I did was question your logic for attacking Aaron Murray. Relax.
3. Classic ad hominem logic. Don't address any of Demi's (or my) arguments, just state that we are negative so nothing we write should be considered.
4. You are bringing up past posts and other arguments when I am trying to discuss 1 specific point - about Aaron Murray. Who is being negative in this case? Demi thinks Murray will be a good QB and you attack both Demi and Murray. Again, who is negative in this specific case?
5. At no point did Demi even hint that Aaron Murray was as good as Tom Brady. The only comment was that they have similar styes (ie pocket passers who don't rely on their legs) and that Brady returned 100% to form after his ACL tear. Seems like a reasonable point to me. How do you refute this specific point?
6. Without citing mock drafts, please articulate why you feel Aaron Murray will not be successful in the NFL. Without citing mock drafts, please articulate why Aaron Murray would be a horrible pick in the 2nd. I freely acknowledge I am no player personnel expert (or I would have another job ) so I will freely listen to any arguments you might have with an open mind.

I never once said Murray wouldn't be a successful QB. I also never said Demi was saying Murray was as good as Brady either. That had nothing to do with the argument. But just because a legend in Tom Brady recovered well does NOT mean Murray can do the same. I don't care how similar their styles are. Oh and I never said that he would be a "horrible" pick in the 2nd. I said that it would be a reach and would be risky and I did justify why I thought that so I don't know why you continue to ask me, You're claiming I didn't read Demi's post but are you sure you read mine?? Obviously not close enough

[VikingPaul73]

I said that it would be a reach and would be risky and I did justify why I thought that so I don't know why you continue to ask me

Yes, you justified it by commenting on the ACL and by stating that you've read, not one, but MANY mock drafts

Oh and I've also looked at MANY mock drafts over the past few months and have not seen one that has showed Murray going before the 4th. But they all must be wrong right???

I was hoping you had something more, like arm strength, poor pocket awareness, low IQ, inability to read defenses, size, etc. Again, I have an open mind on this subject and was just looking for some actual analysis. Oh well, I'll just check on some mocks.

[Skol_Zoss]

I like the picks, except for Manziel. I just don't think he can get away with the stuff he does at the pro level. I think Bortles will be a good QB, but I have little faith in many of the "top" QBs.

Here's my dream draft:

RD 1 - 8th overall
Louis Nix III – DT, Notre Dame
If Nix' health is a concern for a lot of teams, I could see the Vikes moving down in the draft hoping to get him a bit later. I have a feeling his draft stock will increase, however, and I think he's a top-10 pick. A defensive line of Everson Griffen, Nix, Shariff Floyd and Brian Robison will be one of the best in the league. It could rival the success of the 'Williams Wall'.

RD 2
Zack Martin - OT, Notre Dame
Spielmen loves Notre Dame guys. Martin is an immediate upgrade over current left guard, Charlie Johnson.

RD 3
Aaron Murray – QB, Georgia
Call me crazy, but this will be the steal of the draft. All the “top” QBs in this class are overrated and most will be busts, but Murray will be a franchise QB. I predict the Vikings will pursue Josh McCown in the offseason, and if that's the case, then Murray can learn on the sidelines for a year or two before taking over.

RD 3 (from Percy Harvin trade with Seattle)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste – CB, Nebraska
It's time to look for Chris Cook's replacement – it amazes me he still got playing time this season when there were better guys on the bench. The Vikings have been going bigger and taller with their cornerbacks lately and Baptiste fits the bill (even though he's a Cornhusker).

RD 4
Christian Kirksey - OLB, Iowa
I have a feeling the Vikes might get rid of Erin Henderson this offseason. I don't think he's talented enough to be worth the headache. If they do unload him, they'll be looking for depth at outside linebacker after Audie Cole established himself as the starter at middle. I would love to see Kirksey in purple.

RD 5
L'Damian Washington – WR, Missouri
With Jerome Simpson not likely to receive a multi-year contract from the Vikes after more off-the-field trouble, the team needs to add more speed at wide receiver in the draft. He might be a bit of a project for the wide receivers coaches, but he has the skill set needed to stretch the field.

RD 6
James White – RB, Wisconsin
Toby Gerhart will probably get a chance to start somewhere in the league – and he deserves that shot. That means we need a backup for Peterson. He may not be a bruiser like Gerhart, but I have a feeling some team is going to give White a shot. He fights for every yard, is a decent blocker, and makes good catches out of the backfield.

RD 7
C.J. Barnett – SS, Ohio State
I believe the Vikes have something in Andrew Sendejo, and I still think Jamarca Sanford is a serviceable safety, but at this point the team can't get enough help in the secondary. He was a leader in that Buckeyes secondary and would be a great special teams addition.

[VikingPaul73]

OK all of this talk at least made me curious enough to read a bit about Murray....so see, something positive came out of all of this arguing

I like this article the best. Seems he's a little small (6'1") and has only average NFL arm strength. But is intelligent, competive, and has a great work ethic.

I like him!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20000 ... r-nfl-team

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yes, you justified it by commenting on the ACL and by stating that you've read, not one, but MANY mock drafts
I was hoping you had something more, like arm strength, poor pocket awareness, low IQ, inability to read defenses, size, etc. Again, I have an open mind on this subject and was just looking for some actual analysis. Oh well, I'll just check on some mocks.

I've also said I was going with the majority of what scouts, experts, analysts, etc are saying. Also my own personal opinion. It has nothing to do with his skill set. That's what you're not understanding. It's his injury and if he will be ready for training camp. You want your "franchise QB" to be participating in camp and know that he is healthy. Nobody knows if he will recover or not so to pick him in the 2nd round out of "hope" is just not a good idea IMO. Hence, why I said it's a risky reach that shouldn't be made. GM's won't be able to see how his knee looks during the Senior Bowl or the Combine so WHY in the world would you take him in the 2nd. He is a huge question mark. It has nothing to do with the guys talent. Regardless, once again, Murray has nothing to do with this mock. I have given you my side multiple times. You're at the point where you just sound like a broken record. Get over it, move on.

[VikingPaul73]

I like the picks, except for Manziel. I just don't think he can get away with the stuff he does at the pro level. I think Bortles will be a good QB, but I have little faith in many of the "top" QBs.

Here's my dream draft:

RD 3
Aaron Murray – QB, Georgia
Call me crazy, but this will be the steal of the draft. All the “top” QBs in this class are overrated and most will be busts, but Murray will be a franchise QB. I predict the Vikings will pursue Josh McCown in the offseason, and if that's the case, then Murray can learn on the sidelines for a year or two before taking over.

.

Uh oh, here we go again

Interesting picks all the way, thanks for posting Skol!

[VikingPaul73]

I've also said I was going with the majority of what scouts, experts, analysts, etc are saying. Also my own personal opinion. It has nothing to do with his skill set. That's what you're not understanding. It's his injury and if he will be ready for training camp. You want your "franchise QB" to be participating in camp and know that he is healthy. Nobody knows if he will recover or not so to pick him in the 2nd round out of "hope" is just not a good idea IMO. Hence, why I said it's a risky reach that shouldn't be made. GM's won't be able to see how his knee looks during the Senior Bowl or the Combine so WHY in the world would you take him in the 2nd. He is a huge question mark. It has nothing to do with the guys talent. Regardless, once again, Murray has nothing to do with this mock. I have given you my side multiple times. You're at the point where you just sound like a broken record. Get over it, move on.

OK fair enough. Just out of curiousity, if not for the ACL issue, where would you draft him if he was available?

[Purple bruise]

OK all of this talk at least made me curious enough to read a bit about Murray....so see, something positive came out of all of this arguing

I like this article the best. Seems he's a little small (6'1") and has only average NFL arm strength. But is intelligent, competive, and has a great work ethic.

I like him!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20000 ... r-nfl-team

Wow dude, he sounds just like Ponder coming out of college only Ponder is bigger 6-2 230, more intelligent (masters degree earned by his junior year) and both are competitve. Sounds as if you had no clue about Murray until you finally read about him Your minion's first comment/complaint about Ponder that I recollect was that he was a midget. Now he wants the Vikes to draft Murray who is smaller.

[Demi]

OK all of this talk at least made me curious enough to read a bit about Murray....so see, something positive came out of all of this arguing

I like this article the best. Seems he's a little small (6'1") and has only average NFL arm strength. But is intelligent, competive, and has a great work ethic.

I like him!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20000 ... r-nfl-team

Average arm strength? Where do they get this? Guy throws it 40-50 yards on a rope. Goes through his progressions. Stays in the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. Good feel for the pocket. And then they bring up Mettenberger? Who throws some of the floatingest little lobs I've ever seen! He might be able to throw it 80 yards, but get out the stop watch and it'll probably have more hang time than a punt!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1808 ... t-prospect

[Pondering Her Percy]

OK fair enough. Just out of curiousity, if not for the ACL issue, where would you draft him if he was available?

Our first pick in the 3rd would be the best spot I believe. No earlier than that. He hasn't really done anything to separate himself from the rest of the pack.

I don't know exactly where Murray will get drafted now that he tore the ACL in his left knee, an injury that is likely to sideline him for the Senior Bowl, the NFL Scouting Combine, Georgia's pro day and every other opportunity he might have had to impress NFL teams between the end of the college season and the May draft.

^This is what I've been trying to say as well. The injury isn't helping him at all hence why I can't see him going in the 2nd. I still think it will be the 4th or later. Also, I have to agree with PurpleBruise on this one.....it seems like you didn't know much about the guy before you read on him. You just said you liked that article the best, listed some attributes and said..."I like hIm". I mean it seems like you're going off of an article to see if you like him or not. Sort of confusing

[VikingPaul73]

Wow dude, he sounds just like Ponder coming out of college only Ponder is bigger 6-2 230, more intelligent (masters degree earned by his junior year) and both are competitve. Sounds as if you had no clue about Murray until you finally read about him Your minion's first comment/complaint about Ponder that I recollect was that he was a midget. Now he wants the Vikes to draft Murray who is smaller.

Here's what I like about him most: He's a four-year starter who's enjoyed great individual and team success.

On an uneven scale from three (average) to nine (the top), I don't have a grade lower than seven on any characteristic for Murray. I gave him nines for intelligence, dedication and competitiveness, an eight for accuracy, and sevens for arm strength and mobility.

Murray is a leader who rises to challenges. If there was any doubt about that, take a look at what he did against two of the nation's best defenses this season -- Georgia victories over LSU and South Carolina. And take a look at how he kept his team competitive despite losing his top two receivers and top two running backs this season

Yeah, sounds just like Ponder!!

[VikingPaul73]

Also, I have to agree with PurpleBruise on this one.....it seems like you didn't know much about the guy before you read on him. You just said you liked that article the best, listed some attributes and said..."I like hIm". I mean it seems like you're going off of an article to see if you like him or not. Sort of confusing

What is with you two clowns? When did I ever claim to know anything about the guy, why do you think I've asked so many quesitons?? At least I've been honest all along and don't pretend to be an expert because I've ready MANY mocks