Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer

[dead_poet]

Chris Kluwe said he'll cooperate with #Vikings' investigation, wasn't surprised players defended Priefer yesterday.

Kluwe on Priefer's denial: "If he wants to have his day in court, he’s more than happy to have it."

RT @GoesslingESPN Kluwe said he's hoping not to have to publicize other players who heard Priefer's comments, but said he will if he has to.

Kluwe said he doesn't have audio recordings of Priefer's comments; just his written recollections and other players whom he says heard them.

Kluwe on Priefer: "Don't get me wrong; he's a very good ST coach. It's entirely possible to be a goodST coach and say reprehensible things."

[Mothman]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10238 ... llegations

The punter has declined to name the other players who he says heard Priefer's remarks because of his belief that he was run out of the NFL for his views and that those players could also be risking their careers by supporting him. But if he has to involve them, Kluwe said, he will.

"The thing is, I made serious statements," Kluwe said. "If it comes down to it, I have to provide the evidence."

He said he has no audio recordings of Priefer's comments and that his evidence consists of the recollections he wrote down at the time and other players' testimony.

In other words, if those other players don't back his story, Kluwe's got bubkes.

Asked by ESPN why he didn't take his concerns about Priefer's comments to the team sooner, Kluwe said he didn't believe he could talk to Frazier and added that if he had gone to the NFL or NFLPA with the matter, "That's something that ends careers," referencing what happened to Miami Dolphins guard Jonathan Martin when he spoke out about allegations of bullying in the Dolphins' locker room this season.

Kluwe said he was not surprised to see other players, including kicker Blair Walsh, come to Priefer's defense Thursday.

"The main thing to look at is from the players' perspective," Kluwe said. "If what I'm saying is true -- that I was run out of the league for speaking out -- and if they take my side, they would risk falling under that same umbrella. The NFL is not an easy league to get into. I would be surprised if any came to my side, although it would be very gratifying."

I find it interesting that Kluwe chose to frame all of this in terms of his release from the Vikings. He's using it justify why he's no longer in the NFL, not just with the Vikings. Perhaps he's right but framing it as he did is convenient. He could have simply come forward and expressed his outrage at Priefer's alleged behavior but instead he lashed out at Spielman and Frazier as well and has created a scenario in which, if nobody supports him, that can simply be explained away by their fear of losing their jobs. He's taken on the role of martyr in this situation.

"They want to have a new coaching staff in place for the new year, and they also want to get to the bottom of it and determine whether they would keep Coach Priefer, I would assume," Kluwe said. "He is a very good special-teams coach, don't get me wrong; his schemes are very good. That's not the question. But it's entirely possible to be a good special-teams coach and say reprehensible things.

"If they think I'm making this up, they'll want to clear his name as soon as possible. We'll see what happens."

It's going to be interesting!

[VikeMike]

And I'm not surprised that other players are now saying it never happened. They still want to work in the NFL.

... or maybe it never happened... or it's been exaggerated... or the players who are speaking up never heard what Kluwe did and are simply speaking to their own experiences with Priefer.

Moth, all those scenarios are entirely possible. You also said had Kluwe gone to someone higher in management that it may have been handled internally -- and that's the real issue here. That's what Kluwe probably should have done. I do find it questionable to run these accusations on a website such as Deadspin, which seems to run anything controversial. Is it possible Kluwe approached any other reporter about this? Getting someone to go on record about this would be very hard. Kluwe's choice on how to publicize this is vindictive; I won't deny that. For as articulate as he is, Kluwe does lean on salty language

That's correct but Kluwe claims he has witnesses who can confirm his claims and many reporters have no problem at all quoting an anonymous source that "is close to the team", "a former teammate", "close to the situation:, etc. If Kluwe's claims are accurate, then it's possible a reporter could have investigated his claims and found confirmation of his story.

Reporters use unnamed sources to protect the sources, but if someone were to write this story and used unnamed sources, they would have to get more than one person to confirm the story, if it ever got to "print."

He probably went to Deadspin with this because no other media outlet would touch it.

I doubt it, Mike. He has a prior relationship with Deadspin and probably knew they would jump at the chance to publish it. The approach he took is consistent with his past M.O.

I should have said, "He probably went to Deadspin with this because he knew they would touch it." And, I agree, it is consistent with his previous behavior.

Kluwe very well might be on a witch hunt. Entirely possible. And that would be sickening. But, I also think it's quite possible that Priefer could have made the statements Kluwe claims. It fits with the locker room culture.

[Mothman]

Kluwe very well might be on a witch hunt. Entirely possible. And that would be sickening. But, I also think it's quite possible that Priefer could have made the statements Kluwe claims. It fits with the locker room culture.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if either of those possibilities emerged as true, although I'm guessing the truth may lie somewhere in-between them.

[Laserman]

I'm sorry but I have trouble with this line of thinking. If Kluwe was truly cut just because of his mouth then why did he not catch on with another club?

IMO, this is the Pioneer Press trying to stir the pot and in Kluwe they have a willing accomplice who is too foolish to realize how idiotic he is making himself look.

Exactly RIGHT. kluwe needs grow and accept he wasn't an NFL caliber anymore He just whinning like a spoiled little girl and most of what he says is most likely BS. Nobody wanted you Kluwe so SHUT UP and go away

[Raptorman]

Exactly RIGHT. kluwe needs grow and accept he wasn't an NFL caliber anymore He just whinning like a spoiled little girl and most of what he says is most likely BS. Nobody wanted you Kluwe so SHUT UP and go away

Well. Last year he was better then about half of the punters from this year. One has to wonder if you have the 32nd best punter in the league and there is someone out there that you know is better, but you don't take him on because he might say something about supporting gays.......

[CalVike]

If by "reaction" you mean the no-question-about-it decision to replace him, you're wrong. The reaction to Kluwe's actions were absolutely justified. He was a distraction who wasn't a good enough player to warrant putting up with his crap.

No, the reaction to which I was referring were Frazier's and Spielman's attempts to muzzle him.


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[CalVike]

To BGM.. Brian, I won't quote your first post in this thread because of its length, but I wanted to state I thought it was tremendous. Thanks for posting your thoughts.


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[BGM]

Can we please put to bed the idea that Kluwe was no longer productive enough to remain in the NFL? His stats disprove the contention that his production had diminished. The Vikings allegedly released him to save money.

I only recall two games when people complained about Kluwe - the Chicago game when he punted to Hester, and the Tampa Bay game. Otherwise, the overwhelming majority of negativity aimed at him here was regarding his outspoken approach. Even then, he was criticized as being an attention seeker. Was there any negative impact on the team resulting from his "mouth"? I do not recall any.

Has there been a history of Kluwe being petty or vengeful?

Listen, if you simply do not like Kluwe, fine. But writing this off as a stunt makes little to no sense. What he has alleged leaves him open to a serious slander or libel lawsuit if it is proven to be false. There is nothing for him to gain personally in making these allegations. And if this is an attempt to change the culture of the NFL, a lie would only succeed in undermining his purpose.

[Hunter Morrow]

Can we please put to bed the idea that Kluwe was no longer productive enough to remain in the NFL? His stats disprove the contention that his production had diminished. The Vikings allegedly released him to save money.

I only recall two games when people complained about Kluwe - the Chicago game when he punted to Hester, and the Tampa Bay game. Otherwise, the overwhelming majority of negativity aimed at him here was regarding his outspoken approach. Even then, he was criticized as being an attention seeker. Was there any negative impact on the team resulting from his "mouth"? I do not recall any.

Has there been a history of Kluwe being petty or vengeful?

Listen, if you simply do not like Kluwe, fine. But writing this off as a stunt makes little to no sense. What he has alleged leaves him open to a serious slander or libel lawsuit if it is proven to be false. There is nothing for him to gain personally in making these allegations. And if this is an attempt to change the culture of the NFL, a lie would only succeed in undermining his purpose.

I agree. Dallas should have hired Kluwe. All DAT PUBLICITY and their place kickers are trash.

[CalVike]

Can we please put to bed the idea that Kluwe was no longer productive enough to remain in the NFL? His stats disprove the contention that his production had diminished. The Vikings allegedly released him to save money..

As you stated in your earlier post, the claim is that the Vikings asked him to punt high and short, which would support Kluwe and should be verifiable by the independent review. Kluwe claimed on KFAN this morning I think that his performance reviews changed for the same level of performance during the 2012 season. That may be written and verifiable. Kluwe also said something interesting about his 2012 numbers and why they were down compared to the rest of the league. He said last year was an unusual year, with higher than normal numbers at the top end, compared to a normal year and that they came back to Earth this year, which should be verifiable.

One final point and shred me for it if you like, but I find it curious that a team with tremendous holes on defense who just cut their best CB and had gaping holes at LB and had traded a 2, 3, and 4 to NE chose to draft a punter in Round 5. They had far greater needs. Hindsight proves they were stupid to do it. Punters make next to nothing even veterans and Kluwe's numbers were fine. The team's defense on the other hand was not fine, coming within 4 points of most points allowed in a season ever. Frazier stated at every turn, consistently, that he did not want players speaking out, period, on any subject. It is fully conceivable to me they cut Kluwe for reasons other than performance. That is also disappointing to me.

I am glad the Wilf's hired independent lawyers with real clout to investigate. Of course, it must be noted said independent lawyers will be paid by the team but it is far better than having in house counsel do the review. And hiring a former Chief Justice and MN lawyer of the year suggest they will do it right by both sides.


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[Mothman]

Can we please put to bed the idea that Kluwe was no longer productive enough to remain in the NFL? His stats disprove the contention that his production had diminished. The Vikings allegedly released him to save money.

I only recall two games when people complained about Kluwe - the Chicago game when he punted to Hester, and the Tampa Bay game. Otherwise, the overwhelming majority of negativity aimed at him here was regarding his outspoken approach. Even then, he was criticized as being an attention seeker. Was there any negative impact on the team resulting from his "mouth"? I do not recall any.

Has there been a history of Kluwe being petty or vengeful?

Listen, if you simply do not like Kluwe, fine. But writing this off as a stunt makes little to no sense. What he has alleged leaves him open to a serious slander or libel lawsuit if it is proven to be false. There is nothing for him to gain personally in making these allegations. And if this is an attempt to change the culture of the NFL, a lie would only succeed in undermining his purpose.

I agree that writing this off as a stunt makes no sense and yes, what he has alleged leaves him open to a lawsuit but until there's confirmation of his allegations, there's simply no reason to just accept them at face value and assume they represent a true and accurate description of events. We have his version, his impression of what happened and he's wrapped it up in a bitter attempt to explain why he is no longer punting in the NFL. What he gave us might be the frustrated words of a man who is struggling to adjust to an unexpectedly early end to his NFL career. As far as I know, Kluwe doesn't have a history of petty or vengeful behavior but that doesn't mean he's incapable of such behavior and, arguably, he does have a history of being overzealous when criticizing someone or calling them out in public.

Kluwe is trying to end a man's career here and I'm sure you will agree that's not something to be taken lightly. Is he trying to do it because he sincerely believes Priefer's views are so dangerous and reprehensible that he shouldn't be allowed "to proselytize on behalf of his own doctrine of intolerance" and "pass his example along to anyone else" or is he doing it because he believes Priefer ended his career? Maybe he has another motivation.

I don't have answers to the questions above but this is obviously a serious situation with serious consequences and there IS something for Kluwe to gain in all of this: attention. Publicity. The national attention Kluwe received today in newspapers, on talk radio, on national television, etc. isn't a bad thing for a guy who just mentioned that he isn't going to try to make another NFL roster * and who also said he wants to write his NFL memoirs.

* http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... r/4312785/

[Mothman]

Tom Pelissero interviews Chris Kluwe:

I posted a link to this above but it's a great read, a must-read for anyone interested in this topic:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... r/4312785/

I already posted the link in my reply to Brian but I wanted to draw a little more attention to it because it's a great read, a must-read for anyone interested in this topic.

[CalVike]

Tom Pelissero interviews Chris Kluwe:

I posted a link to this above but it's a great read, a must-read for anyone interested in this topic:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... r/4312785/

Excellent read. Thanks for posting it, Jim.


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[thatguy]

We have to look at who we are and what we do and understand that until we make those changes, until we understand that people are human beings – people deserve the right to have their own opinions here, no matter what those opinions might be, they deserve the right to speak those opinions as long as they're not harming other people. That's the basis of a free-speech society. To this day and age, we still don't have that yet. We still have problems with discrimination and people getting fired from their jobs for speaking out on social issues. Well, what does that say about us as a society?

That bolded part of the quote seems a little bit hypocritical to me in the whole scheme of things. Sure, what Priefer allegedly said was horrible, but really, it didn't "harm" anyone that was there (it got Kluwe upset but that's not a crime)...it's just one of those instances where Kluwe acts high and mighty about the idea of speaking freely...but then says "you can only say stuff that everyone will like, and I'll be the judge of that."

If what Priefer allegedly said happens to come out as what he actually said, I think there's no question that he should be gone just because it's a really, really stupid thing to say regardless, but I think that Kluwe has muddied this entire thing to the point of disrepair, and he's the only one that's at fault for that.