How do you think our defense is viewed across the league

[purpleTang]

I Have enjoyed everybody post. I have learned a lot and respect everyones points of view, and man this season is tough. I wonder do you think OC's of other teams lick there chops when they get to go against our defense, I mean to me it seems like an out dated system and if it is not the players we have don't fit it. I have noticed it seems greenway has been having an off season, and the only line backer that O like is Mitchell at least I see a little fire there. I would like to see Mauti in for the rest of the season in the middle, cant do any harm right? I do like Rhodes he has made mistakes but he seems to improve at least week to week. The offense is to predictable I know its been said before but today it really hit home when my 86 year old Grandmother was calling the plays they were going to run on offense before they ran them, that got me thinking if she can call it out there is no reason, why the other team doesn't know. I am sorry if I repeated any other post, just a long time fan, and eventually you do hit that breaking point. I am just wondering what or how we should approach or hope for the team to fix the issues? Who should replace the coordinators, heck even the GM if he is replaced? In the Draft where do we go? Will the team trade of Peterson do you think, so the obligation to him is not there and basically force the team to change its current path. I like Peterson one of my favorites, but a time comes when you have to realize its 2013 and the league has changed, and many teams that are good just have guys back there running the ball, and not MVPs and they seem to be doing just fine.

[Hunter Morrow]

Pitiful. Laughably weak in every aspect. Susceptible to bomb passes. Worst LBs in coverage in the league.
Will fold at the end of quarters and games. You can sustain drives at will and win time of possession.
Terrible on third down. Vulnerable up the middle and down the sides. No real play makers. Getting old.

Bottom 10 in the league overall, terrible on the road. Every play coordinator and offensive players
licks his chops at the thought of playing this defense.

It is a good "tune up" to play or you can beat us to get on track.

[mondry]

I think opposing offensives probably do "lick their chops" and I'm sure plenty have said "this week we get the offense back on track" as well. As for why that is, it's a combination of low talent with an outdated scheme and poor coaching. I too hope we can see Mauti and Hodges and some of the younger guys full time as well!

Yep the offensive coordinator is very predicable and formations typically tip the defense off. Our first two series started with run run pass for crying out loud!

How we fix the issue, it's hard to say. I believe we have to lose enough to get a complete coaching and GM change (if that's even possible) as the #1 priority of this team. Leslie is a great guy, but his football mind and judgement of talent are near bottom of the barrel. I wish it were different because he truly is someone who I'd want to lead our team and be successful. As for Spielman, when you look at the lack of talent on this roster, he's the primary guy responsible for restocking the roster.

Frazier's lackey's Bill Musgrave and Alan Williams share the same conservative style and I believe are even more "clueless" as strategist's and game plan developers. Musgrave because we know we have a QB who has proven he works better out of the shotgun in spread / passing formations but he continues to run him under center in condensed formations and ultimately is very slow to adapt and of course the predictable offense.

Alan Williams, well it's pretty obvious when you watch this defense lol.

As for it being 2013, well the team that just rofl stomped us relies on a power running game with marshawn lynch and imo they're probably going to represent the NFC in the superbowl. The 49ers are another power running team and they were in the superbowl last year. Peterson isn't the problem, but the inability to put even an average QB behind center nor a respectable defense on the field certainly is.

As for who to get it's really hard to say. I like Mike Zimmer for coach but don't really have any idea of who to target for GM.

[Reignman]

They gotta be licking their chops. I remember seeing Aaron Rodgers with a #### eating grin on his face for most of the game when we played the Packers. I could be wrong though, that could be his natural look. I went to a Packer board before that game to see what they were saying. Most were pretty confident about their chances, and rightfully so. There were the expected fears of what AD could do, but nobody was worried about our D or our QB's. Well there were some concerns that our D would take cheap shots and try to injure Rodgers intentionally which I found comical. You know your team is bad when the only thing opposing fans are concerned about is your team taking cheap shots at their precious QB lol.

What's frustrating about Frazier is he played in the secondary on one of the most aggressive successful ball hawking defenses in NFL history in the '85 Bears. But in his coaching life he has taken on a failed passive defensive style. It just does not compute. And ironically our secondary is the weakest link about our defense. I mean how did this guy even get the head job? He failed at coaching the thing he's supposed to be an expert and now we're shocked that he looks lost handling the QB position and running an entire team? The incompetence starts at the very top with this franchise.

[purpleTang]

I can see your point about power running games! The lack of a QB does put a lot on his shoulders, and teams know that's really the only chance we have most of the time to get our game going. Also when teams get so far ahead it takes him out of the game, even though we continue to feed him the ball when we are down 3 scores with 11 min left in a game. I have noticed Peterson looking a little more unhappy on the sidelines then usual, well for obvious reasons, but still I feel like its only a matter of time before the frustration breaks the shell of the class act we have all come to know, and swords are drawn in the way of trade request or something along those lines. The fan in me wants us to keep him forever, but the nice guy in me feels like he deserves a chance at a ring on a team that can get it for him.

[CbusVikesFan]

Images that come to mind when thinking about the Vikings defense.
a full diaper pail. Limburger cheese. Ludefisk. Sulfur pots in Yellowstone. Road kill.

The opposing OC's are thinking......IT'S CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!! No reason to expand the playbook for these chumps. Give me Musgrave's post card, I'll beat them with their own plays.

[King James]

What defense??? This team is #### irrelevant. The only player viewe across the league is Adrian Peterson. As far as im concern Peterson scoring up and down the field is offense and defense for us. Offensively it gives us a winning edge. Defensively, it keeps the other team from winning if they can't stop him. Everyone else on this team is a non factor.

[purpleTang]

I agree Peterson is a key part if not the only weapon, however Patterson has shown promise in my opinion, and Harrison Smith was getting better until the turf toe but he has promise. I also like Rhodes sure he has been out of position at time but he is a rookie and I like what I see so far. Offense line, seemed to me like it played better against the skins with Loadholt, and Johnson out. I know the skins line is not as good as seahawks but the skins had Kerrigan who is pretty good, I thought Webb did a good job in loadholts absence if not better and Berger did well also. I know Ponder holds onto the ball to long and is not the answer at the QB position, but the line has looked horrid all year I don't know whats going on with it. Its funny because you hear announcers say its our strength but in reality I think its a huge weakness. I am happy that Carlson finally started showing up in the last 2 games. I also think we may want to invest in a small scat back that looks natural catching passes out of the backfield, because lets be honest Peterson is not the best pass catching back he just looks robotic trying to catch passes . We do need that small change of pace back that I noticed someone mentioned in another post that we have not had since chester taylor. Instead we have three oversized power backs. I watched the last 2 games again, and man you guys are right our LB our bad greenway is slow and missing tackles all over the place, and Henderson is just ehhhh. Do you think drafting that kid Barr from UCLA would be a good move? Or do you think he would only fit in a 3-4 scheme? Because we will have holes for sure all over defense in the off season, Allen is gone, Williams is gone, I hope we re-sign Griffon he has flashed more often then not . Our CB position is a joke aside from Rhodes. Depending on what goes on with the QB position would anybody be opposed to a all defensive draft?

[Delaqure]

I sure wouldn't oppose! I'm all for it, up to last night does anyone believe the Chiefs would have been 8-0 if not for their defense that had held teams to 17 points or less all season, I say not!

And Yes, I think teams look forward to playing our defense, good time for experimenting.

Me neither, I think we need a QB, but then pretty much after that we need to go for defense IMO. We have a pretty decent receiving corps and a good backfield. I think picking up a really good O-lineman would be a bad choice either, but our D is so bad, that we have got to do something to shore that up.

I think changing D coaches could really help too. We need someone who knows how to fit a scheme to the players abilities and then coach them out of their tendencies.

[dkoby]

I Have enjoyed everybody post. I have learned a lot and respect everyones points of view, and man this season is tough. I wonder do you think OC's of other teams lick there chops when they get to go against our defense, I mean to me it seems like an out dated system and if it is not the players we have don't fit it. I have noticed it seems greenway has been having an off season, and the only line backer that O like is Mitchell at least I see a little fire there. I would like to see Mauti in for the rest of the season in the middle, cant do any harm right? I do like Rhodes he has made mistakes but he seems to improve at least week to week. The offense is to predictable I know its been said before but today it really hit home when my 86 year old Grandmother was calling the plays they were going to run on offense before they ran them, that got me thinking if she can call it out there is no reason, why the other team doesn't know. I am sorry if I repeated any other post, just a long time fan, and eventually you do hit that breaking point. I am just wondering what or how we should approach or hope for the team to fix the issues? Who should replace the coordinators, heck even the GM if he is replaced? In the Draft where do we go? Will the team trade of Peterson do you think, so the obligation to him is not there and basically force the team to change its current path. I like Peterson one of my favorites, but a time comes when you have to realize its 2013 and the league has changed, and many teams that are good just have guys back there running the ball, and not MVPs and they seem to be doing just fine.

There's a pretty good discussion in the "fix the defense" thread. This thread is filled with observations from us armchair coaches from the peanut gallery. Now what is obvious to us non-professionals surely can be seen to an OC from an opposing team.
Outdated scheme: Check
Conservative head coach: Check
Older Players: Check
Draft Busts (Cook and others) :Check
Lack of depth: Check
Lack of adjustments: Check
Lack of adaptability: Check
Lack of talent: Check
Grumbling players: Check
Superstar DE's trying to pad stats: Check
Defeated Head Coach: Check


Take your pick. This decline was happening during the Childress era and has been declining ever since.
Now, this scheme is being used in todays game but your roster needs to be filled with young studs on the front four. We haven't had that in about 3 to 4 years.
The removal of Antione Winfield was the straw that broke this camels back. He was the experience and tackler that was the remaining strong point. Now it has all collapsed.
Go to Vikings.com and listen to Fraziers press conference. What you see is a defeated coach. There is no conviction in his voice, only a man in search of answers. He doesn't even say that it WILL get it fixed. Only that they will try to correct what they see on the tape.
He also does not have control over his coordinators. How is it possible that 2 weeks in a row your offensive coordinator does not incorporate your most promising offensive rookie? Is he just not paying attention? Is he being defiant? How does Frazier allow this?
This is the NFL, a 9 billion dollar per year business, it hurts the whole league when there is this kind of sloppiness within any organization.

To answer your question, Yes, I think that other teams lick their chops when they see the Vikings on their schedule. If it weren't for Adrian Peterson, we would have had the first pick in the last 3 drafts.

I think you better be ready for a completely new coaching staff with a complete new scheme, offense and defense. The wilfs (I believe) are completely sold on Speilman and he will need to distance himself from the mistakes made before his complete takeover of personnel. This will buy him at least 3 to 4 more years as the vikings bottom out and begin to rebuild to fit the new schemes. If the new schemes/talent don't work, then you can expect the Wilfs to jettison Speilman.

[Mothman]

Depending on what goes on with the QB position would anybody be opposed to a all defensive draft?

I'm not sure what could happen at the QB position to justify that at this point. I think they absolutely must draft a talented young quarterback to develop. However, I would like to see them emphasize the defensive side of the ball in the upcoming draft. They should emphasize it in free agency too, although they still need to upgrade the interior (and depth) of their offensive line.

[mansquatch]

No denying it is horrible right now, but hard to underestimate what losing #22 meant to the secondary. Also, unlike 2011, this group is actually starting to rebound a bit. Hardly a game changing unit, but it isn't as bad as it was the first 6 weeks of the season.

We've added 3 first rounders to this side of the football in the past 2 years. That isn't a bad thing. IMO the bigger issue is that there is still no legtiitmate coverage option in the LB core and also no real playmaker. CB is an obvious problem as well.

It is probably closer to getting better than it is to falling out of bed. I do not think the scheme is helping us though.

[Mothman]

No denying it is horrible right now, but hard to underestimate what losing #22 meant to the secondary. Also, unlike 2011, this group is actually starting to rebound a bit. Hardly a game changing unit, but it isn't as bad as it was the first 6 weeks of the season.

We've added 3 first rounders to this side of the football in the past 2 years. That isn't a bad thing. IMO the bigger issue is that there is still no legtiitmate coverage option in the LB core and also no real playmaker.

Bingo. There's nobody even close to being an impact player in that LB corps and they desperately need one.

[soflavike]

How is our defense viewed across the league? With complete derision.

#32 in Points Allowed per game (32 pts per game)

#30 in Yards Allowed per game (Eagles and Cowpukes are worse)

#30 in Penalty Yards (Eagles and Ravens are worse)

#30 in Total Defense (Eagles and Cowpukes are worse)

#29 in Passing Defense (Eagles, Cowpukes and Lions are worse)

#14 in Rushing Defense <<< wooohoooo! We're average in one category

The only discussion they might be having is "Who's defense sucks more? Minnesota, Dallas or Philly?"

[yezzir]

How is our defense viewed across the league? With complete derision.

#32 in Points Allowed per game (32 pts per game)

#30 in Yards Allowed per game (Eagles and Cowpukes are worse)

#30 in Penalty Yards (Eagles and Ravens are worse)

#30 in Total Defense (Eagles and Cowpukes are worse)

#29 in Passing Defense (Eagles, Cowpukes and Lions are worse)

#14 in Rushing Defense <<< wooohoooo! We're average in one category

The only discussion they might be having is "Who's defense sucks more? Minnesota, Dallas or Philly?"