Cleveland's last drive

[Mothman]

I just re-watched the drive that led to Cleveland's final score on Sunday and contrary to many of the impressions I read here, the Vikings did not appear to slip into a passive, prevent defense. They played some zone coverage but they blitzed frequently and were actually pretty aggressive with their approach. It just didn't pay off.

It looks like a few missed and/or simply inadequate coverages and the inability to get to Hoyer eventually led to the TD. On the last play of the drive, the Browns put 3 receivers on the right side of the line, obviously (in retrospect) to isolate their TE in single coverage on the left.

Here's the pre-snap look. Harrison Smith has crept up to the line at top left, across from the TE.


The ball is snapped. Smith lets the TE get a clean release and it's basically over at that point.


Smith trailing the play. he won't be able to catch up.


The TD.


Hoyer looked at the TE all the way. There was never any intent to go anywhere else. If Smith had just jammed him at the line, that might have been enough to force 4th down. Oh, well...

[VikingLord]

Here's a question:

Why does Smith line up on the TE?

Look at the other DBs - all are lined up off their men. The Browns have to get into the endzone, so it makes sense for them to position themselves back a bit. This allows them good looks into the backfield after the snap, and they have a chance to break on anything thrown shorter.

But Smith doesn't have any margin for error. He's up tight, and as Jim notes, unless he gets a solid jam to throw the TE off balance, once the TE beats him off the LOS there is no way Smith can break on the ball or even know if it's coming cause he has to turn and run with the receiver. For a safety especially, that's not the position you want him to be in there. Safeties don't get a lot of work jamming receivers at the LOS, and they are usually at their best facing the ball and breaking on routes. Situationally, it would make sense to have Smith off the TE here.

It's still a heck of a throw by Hoyer and even had Smith been playing deeper and had a chance to break on the ball there might have been little he could do, but I don't think the Vikings did themselves or Smith any favors by choosing to play him up so tight in this situation.

[Mothman]

Here's a question:

Why does Smith line up on the TE?

Look at the other DBs - all are lined up off their men. The Browns have to get into the endzone, so it makes sense for them to position themselves back a bit. This allows them good looks into the backfield after the snap, and they have a chance to break on anything thrown shorter.

But Smith doesn't have any margin for error. He's up tight, and as Jim notes, unless he gets a solid jam to throw the TE off balance, once the TE beats him off the LOS there is no way Smith can break on the ball or even know if it's coming cause he has to turn and run with the receiver. For a safety especially, that's not the position you want him to be in there. Safeties don't get a lot of work jamming receivers at the LOS, and they are usually at their best facing the ball and breaking on routes. Situationally, it would make sense to have Smith off the TE here.

I think situationally, it makes sense to have him at the line IF he actually jams the TE and doesn't give him a clean release. A successful jam could have thrown the timing of the whole play off.

I mentioned that Smith crept up so he didn't start where he's lined up in the first shot. Maybe he was playing head games with Hoyer or intended to jam the TE and just didn't get the job done. Another possibility: perhaps he's up closer because they didn't want Cleveland to be able to complete a quick pass to a big TE underneath the coverage because with his size and momentum, it might be too hard to stop him near the goal line.

I clearly don't know the answer. It's possible that Smith wasn't supposed to be that close to the line at all. I wish reporters asked more questions about this kind of stuff.

[Eli]

And if the jam at the line is ineffective, the receiver is likely to be even more open. Otherwise you'd just jam a receiver anytime you're in man to man coverage. Actually, it looked like that may have been Smith's intention, but Cameron juked him at the line and evaded him easily. You can see Smith reach out as Cameron side-steps and runs past him.

What really stands out on that play is Hoyer's perfect throw and Cameron's perfect catch on the ball. Not necessarily a difficult throw and catch, but it was executed with such precision that it was virtually impossible to defend.

[mondry]

Yeah, that's the type of throw Ponder can't make, big TE gets slightly free and the balls already in the air to the perfect spot. Ponder would need to stare him down, make sure he gets by smith by at least a couple steps, then once his brain can confirm that's what happened he'll throw it, only for the DB to recover and make a play on the ball. No trust in himself or his guy, this same throw went 2 feet in front of Joe Webb since he had to make sure a defender couldn't possibly get it.

[The Breeze]

This kid Cameron, Bennett in Chicago, the 6'7" guy in Detroit and the kid from portland state that Manning is turning into a star, are all nightmares to cover.
Big, tall, fast with good hands.

It's a formidable weapon when the the QB can figure out how to use it.

[mondry]

This kid Cameron, Bennett in Chicago, the 6'7" guy in Detroit and the kid from portland state that Manning is turning into a star, are all nightmares to cover.
Big, tall, fast with good hands.

It's a formidable weapon when the the QB can figure out how to use it.

And they have to have played basketball at some point as well LOL! That's how they learn to box out the coverage. It's a phenomenon for sure but I find it REALLY strange because if you look back, Antonio Gates was the original, but it took almost another decade and suddenly they're out in swarms now. Maybe it just has to do with NFL scouts only recently looking at basket ball players like Gates to try and teach them Tight end?

[The Breeze]

And they have to have played basketball at some point as well LOL! That's how they learn to box out the coverage. It's a phenomenon for sure but I find it REALLY strange because if you look back, Antonio Gates was the original, but it took almost another decade and suddenly they're out in swarms now. Maybe it just has to do with NFL scouts only recently looking at basket ball players like Gates to try and teach them Tight end?

It's true!
They aren't your typical meat and potatoes TEs. They're giant wideouts, with serious hand eye skills, going up against LBs.
I think NE success using them in their offense hs opened up a lot of peoples eyes.

I remember back in the 80s when it was trendy to get track stars and train them at wideout. Didn't really pan out the way this seems to be.

[losperros]

It's true!
They aren't your typical meat and potatoes TEs. They're giant wideouts, with serious hand eye skills, going up against LBs.
I think NE success using them in their offense hs opened up a lot of peoples eyes.

I don't care if they're Godzilla and Rodan, the Vikings D can't keep getting beaten by the same freakin' play! Seriously, this team can't stop a final drive or finish an opponent this year.

[The Breeze]

Rodan.....yeah, we should draft that guy!


Rodan= superbowl

[Reignman]

Yeah looks like a missed jam to me and that explains how a TE got by Smith so easily. I think Cameron was the first read and Hoyer knew Smith was beat right away so he didn't need to look anywhere else. You can see the 2nd read coming over the middle of the field though. They set a pick on Robinson and Bess would have been wide open over the middle, but it looks like Henderson is in the right spot to shut it down. Everyone else is covered. Looks like a solid defensive play, we even brought pressure, but Smith missed the jam.

Yeah, that's the type of throw Ponder can't make, big TE gets slightly free and the balls already in the air to the perfect spot. Ponder would need to stare him down, make sure he gets by smith by at least a couple steps, then once his brain can confirm that's what happened he'll throw it, only for the DB to recover and make a play on the ball. No trust in himself or his guy, this same throw went 2 feet in front of Joe Webb since he had to make sure a defender couldn't possibly get it.

You mean like Carlson earlier in the game? Ponder missed a wide open TD because he made a late read then a late throw and that allowed the DB to recover and knock the ball down. Like you said, took his brain awhile to confirm what was happening in front of him. Not to mention he put the ball in the wrong spot. Had he led Carlson more to the back corner of the EZ the DB wouldn't have been able to blindly knock it down.

And they have to have played basketball at some point as well LOL! That's how they learn to box out the coverage. It's a phenomenon for sure but I find it REALLY strange because if you look back, Antonio Gates was the original

I would say Tony Gonzalez was the original, but I'm sure we could probably look back and find a big basketball type that even came before him lol.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

I told my friend who I was watching the game with that Cameron was going to score as soon as I saw single coverage on Jordan Cameron pre-play. I don't care how good Harrison Smith is, Jordan Cameron outweighs Smith and out reaches him as well. Why the hell are you only going to single cover the guy who has not only scored twice against your team, but the guy who is the quintessential redzone threat? Yet again, it shows coaching incompetence on the part of Frazier and Williams.

[Mothman]

Rodan.....yeah, we should draft that guy!

Rodan= superbowl

No, Rodan = playoffs

MOTHra = Super Bowl.

Jim

[VikingLord]

I think situationally, it makes sense to have him at the line IF he actually jams the TE and doesn't give him a clean release. A successful jam could have thrown the timing of the whole play off.

I mentioned that Smith crept up so he didn't start where he's lined up in the first shot. Maybe he was playing head games with Hoyer or intended to jam the TE and just didn't get the job done. Another possibility: perhaps he's up closer because they didn't want Cleveland to be able to complete a quick pass to a big TE underneath the coverage because with his size and momentum, it might be too hard to stop him near the goal line.

I clearly don't know the answer. It's possible that Smith wasn't supposed to be that close to the line at all. I wish reporters asked more questions about this kind of stuff.

I can't buy that. Safeties normally don't come up and practice jamming receivers. Also, Smith is clearly a read-react safety. He can lay on big hits, but he's much better facing the QB than he is in a run cover with his back to the QB. Bringing him up virtually ensures he will be doing two things he rarely is asked to do during the course of a game, and to his credit, Hoyer saw it at the snap and targeted it.

Is it Smith's fault? Probably not. My guess is the defensive alignment called for him to do that (at least, I hope it did). But it was clearly not the best use of Smith's abilities in that situation. You have a guy like Cook or Rhodes over there, a guy who is bigger and practices jamming receivers at the snap and who is expected to turn and run with a guy, that makes sense to me, but Smith would have been more effective defending there if he had also lined up deep like the other DBs on the play.

[VikingLord]

This kid Cameron, Bennett in Chicago, the 6'7" guy in Detroit and the kid from portland state that Manning is turning into a star, are all nightmares to cover.
Big, tall, fast with good hands.

It's a formidable weapon when the the QB can figure out how to use it.

Still, Smith lines up deeper and can read Hoyer at the snap, that's a much more difficult read for Hoyer and a more favorable read for Smith.

I just think it's a bad idea to ask a read-react safety like Smith to come up and try to get a jam at the snap. Very questionable as safeties aren't asked to do that very often.