Should we trade for Freeman?

[TheFoxInDetox]

even if he is an improvement on O, he doesn't do anything to help our terrible D.

I'm not saying that Freeman is, but a better QB will absolutely help our terrible D.

[The Breeze]

No it's like swapping head lice for dandruff. They both suck, one just sucks less than the other.

Perhaps....and on any given Sunday either one could be either condition or both. You don't trade anything for guys like that IMO.
You pick them up when they get cut if you don't find someone you like in the draft.

TB will not want Ponder. It makes no sense to me, to give up a pick for a project like Freeman when you can use that pick to draft a guy for the same job.

[PacificNorseWest]

Such as?

Throw for over 3,000 yards (last year he even threw for over 4,000) and over 20 TD's in a season.

People forget, but he was one of the next up-and-coming big shot Q's after a monstrous 2010 season. What happened from there is speculated upon by many. It's all mental and a confidence thing though.

[TheFoxInDetox]

You don't trade anything for guys like that IMO.

If I had head lice and somebody offered to trade me even up for dandruff I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[mondry]

He's just like Vince Young, early on looked very promising, even had a huge season at some point, then mentally cracked and it's been down hill ever since. I think it's gotta be pretty bad too if the Bucs aren't even going to bother keeping him around and seeing if he pulls through. I doubt our coaches are the elixir a guy like Freeman needs.

[dead_poet]

You have to understand though that their games are different. Ponder's 61% completion rate is a big lie and you all should know why.

It is not a lie. Those are his stats. You want his completion percentage to be based on footballs he didn't throw?

3 yard passes, check downs, screens....those are I would say 90% of his passes completed.

You're crazy if you truly believe that was 90% of his passes last season. Even 50% might be pushing it. Regardless, those that were not checkdowns were designed plays. And I really don't think he checked down a considerable amount last season.

I'm not saying Freeman guns it down the field all the time, but he can fling it and his 54% is reflective of that.

It reflects a largely inaccurate quarterback that I don't want on our roster.

Is it impressive? No. But it's much much MUCH MUCH MUUCHH more impressive than a 61% completion when all you get are 3 yard passes (and I'm barely exaggerating on the those 3 yds either).

We'll have to agree to disagree here. In my world, 61%>54%.

But yeah, I do agree that I don't want either one starting for my team. But if I had to choose, Freeman hands down.

*shrug* OK. Hopefully neither is starting for us next season (provided quite a miracle turnaround by Ponder this year).

[dead_poet]

Also, any team trading for Freeman (in a contract year) is on the hook for his $8.43 million base salary. That, probably more than his abysmal play, will likely mean he's a Buc until his release next season.

[The Breeze]

If I had head lice and somebody offered to trade me even up for dandruff I'd take it in a heartbeat.

of course you would....but what kind of idiot would offer you that trade?
no one is offering that and no one will.

If we get Freman we will have to give up something in the way of picks and then trust that this staff and o-line will somehow know how to restore his self-confidence and decision making.

who knows? I don't see any moves being made til the offseason.

[dead_poet]

How can you want a guy who completes 61% of his passes on short passes, dead_poet?? That will get your team no where unless you have an incredible defense that gets recognized in the history of the game (Ravens defense, Steelers defense, etc). I rather have a guy who completes 54% of his passes, yet gets about 9-11 yards per passes. That is much better and a more honest way of evaluating accuracy. Anyone can complete the passes Ponder completed last year, and this year we are seeing that when Plunder tries to complete longer passes, it's even more disasterous.

Ideally, I want a quarterback that completes 65% (or more) of his passes at every level. But you're saying that Ponder's 61% is based on overwhelmingly short passes. And I'm saying that's not the case. People like to focus on the 2-4 times we ran a bubble screen to Harvin last season when Ponder threw many, many intermediate passes as well (same for this season). He didn't attempt many bombs, but that also had something to do with his protection, receivers and scheme than it did with him simply not pulling the trigger (though I concede he looks hesitant at times and likely was gun-shy about making a mistake and throwing a pick).

His problem is he's A) just not been accurate enough when given time and B) not able to consistently make positive things happen when things get sticky in the pocket. You make it sound like Freeman is a deep-ball passer only. Martin had 49 receptions last season!

So, no, I don't want a guy that completes 54% of his passes. And I don't know where you get 9-11 yards per pass. He has a career 6.9 yards/attempt. Ponder is 6.3.

And since we do not know if they were design plays or not, we can't say for sure, but I can say for a fact that most plays usually have a deep route or two.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that's where the play is designed to go. The bubble screens people like to recall are most certainly the designed play calls. As are the short slants.

And you can prefer 61%>54%, but I prefer 4,000 yds 27 tds > 2900 yds 18 tds, and mind you, both completed around the same passes. Care to rethink that for a moment?

I prefer wins. Neither QB has been able to deliver them consistently. Stafford threw for nearly 5,000 yards last season and the Lions finished 4-12. Ponder could throw for 1,500 yards and I wouldn't care as long as he was accurate, kept drives going, converted on third downs and in the red zone, scored and protected the football.

27 Touchdowns are nice. But how about Freeman's 42 interceptions in the last 34 games?

[mondry]

They could (and might) actually just cut freeman and then he'd be on waivers for signing.

[dead_poet]

They could (and might) actually just cut freeman and then he'd be on waivers for signing.

Why would they do that? What if Glennon faceplants or gets injured? I can't imagine they'd cut him.

[Crax]

If you're talking this season, the only reason I'd see them doing that is if they consider him a serious disruption to the team. I guess he was late to some team activities, maybe there is some internal issues going on there as well.

[justinkendle]

I rather have Joe Webb be Qb then Josh Freeman

[majorm]

It's so funny how people always come up with these great trade ideas but forget the fact that to make a trade the other team has to be willing.

Why would TB trade their train wreck for the Vikings' train wreck??

I don't know what happened to Freeman. He looked like he was going to be a really good one a couple of years ago. But the wheels have come off!

[dead_poet]

I'm actually not focused just on the bubble screen only to Harvin, but his pass completions yards is not impressive whatever the pass may be, and I forget to bring up that it is hidden too by YAC. Same could said about YAC for Freeman (or any QB for that matter), but it is not the same case as Freeman can complete passes longer than 4-5 yards on occasion (by that I mean the ball traveling through the air). There was also a record that Ponder matched for the lack of the deep ball since the 70's or so (can't remember it).

I'm pretty sure Ponder can complete passes longer than 4-5 yards in the air. Come on. And it's hardly Ponder's fault when he's throwing a bubble screen to Harvin and he goes for 20+ yards. Again, those are designed plays.

I guess overall, we'll just have to agree to disagree on which stats sucks to have most. You prefer 65% on 2900 yds 18 tds, I'd rather have 54% 4,000 yds 27 tds.

I prefer whichever best helps the team win games. And turnovers must also factor in.

It is also true that yards don't equal success, but that is only the case if your team is always playing from behind. Stafford gets a lot, A LOT, of his yards from garbage time, or his team is always behind so he is constantly throwing. Stats aren't everything, and I'm sure you know that.

The Lions have been a pass-first team for the last few seasons, and that doesn't matter if they're ahead or behind. They are the most pass-happy team in the league. Stafford gets a LOT of his yards during the regular course of the game as well. The Lions lost only three games last season by more than 10 points. They lost 12 games last year by 7 points or less!

Overall, I agree that as long as we're winning, I'm okay with it. But realistically speaking, your QB is going to have to contribute more than what Ponder has offered us last year and this year if we ever want to win a Super Bowl.

Agreed. The same goes for our offensive line, defense and special teams.

The same goes for Josh Freeman.