Is it Ponder or the O line

[Mothman]

I don't think points allowed matters in what I'm trying to point out. The Vikings were holding leads when the offense had the ball. It could've been 10-7 instead of 27-24. My point still stands, if Ponder completes those throws to open receivers, the VIkings are 2-1.

And yes, there are other equalizers, but none carry more weight than the QB.

I disagree but I understand your point on Ponder. He could have made the difference in this game. The point is, a LOT of Vikings players could have been the difference between winning and losing the past two weeks and none of them were. Ponder's just one of them. Webb could have caught the potential TD pass Ponder threw his way. Loadholt could have blocked the Browns defender that blew past him and forced a fumble to end the first half and a scoring opportunity. Smith could have prevented the winning TD pass with better coverage. If the Vikes special teams hasn't allowed an easy TD, the Vikes could have won the game.

I understand Ponder's role in these losses. I'm just not interested in trying to make the losses about him, if you know what I mean.

[Mothman]

Yes I do. And what I see is not only Ponder struggling but I also see a defense that can't make a stop when it come to the passing game. But apparently that's ok. It's ok the defense give up tons of points because the QB is supposed to make up for the their shortfalls. The defense gave up 24 points in the first half. They did pretty well the second half but choked in the end once again. You want to place the blame solely on Ponder, fine. But when he is replaced and the Defense is still giving up 32 points a game who are you going to blame then? The next QB? Had they won, I doubt anyone here would have given Ponder one bit of credit for the win. 32 points a game folks, that is 11 more points a game then they gave up last year. And all people can talk about is how bad Ponder is. Talk about tunnel vision. Here I thought it was a team game.

Thank you for that post.

[Raptorman]

I disagree but I understand your point on Ponder. He could have made the difference in this game. The point is, a LOT of Vikings players could have been the difference between winning and losing the past two weeks and none of them were. Ponder's just one of them. Webb could have caught the potential TD pass Ponder threw his way. Loadholt could have blocked the Browns defender that blew past him and forced a fumble to end the first half and a scoring opportunity. Smith could have prevented the winning TD pass with better coverage. If the Vikes special teams hasn't allowed an easy TD, the Vikes could have won the game.

I understand Ponder's role in these losses. I'm just not interested in trying to make the losses about him, if you know what I mean.

Unfortunately it's become all about him. Because he is not the next Aaron Rodgers, who btw posted 64.5 passer rating today, .1 point higher than Ponder. But that's beside the point. If they take out Ponder and everyone else plays the way they played today and last week, the Vikings still lose. You can't give up 32 points a game and win. Now, is Ponder responsible for some of those 32 points game. Yes. But he is not responsible for the last drives by the Bears or the Browns. Those are all on the defense. Particularly the Bears. That was off a kickoff. And then of course, Locke comes up with his shortest punt of the game at 35 yards. After having punts of 45, 44, 57 and 50 earlier in the game at the end, nope, 35 yards.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Plenty of blame to go around, but you are certifiable if you don't think Ponder is a large part of it. No amount of arguing will change that. The team is a mess, and the key people and coaches are the main problems. But im glad some of you are happy, as long as its just not Ponders fault.

[Mothman]

Unfortunately it's become all about him. Because he is not the next Aaron Rodgers, who btw posted 64.5 passer rating today, .1 point higher than Ponder. But that's beside the point. If they take out Ponder and everyone else plays the way they played today and last week, the Vikings still lose. You can't give up 32 points a game and win. Now, is Ponder responsible for some of those 32 points game. Yes. But he is not responsible for the last drives by the Bears or the Browns. Those are all on the defense. Particularly the Bears. That was off a kickoff. And then of course, Locke comes up with his shortest punt of the game at 35 yards. After having punts of 45, 44, 57 and 50 earlier in the game at the end, nope, 35 yards.

Well said.

QBs can be a difference-makers but winning and losing is about SO much more than just QB play. Just ask Ben Rothelisberger and Eli Manning, who have what, 4 Super Bowl appearances and 3 Super Bowl wins between them? Their teams are 0-5 and the Steelers are losing right now.

[Raptorman]

Expecting a starting NFL QB to make those throws is a bit less to ask then our #### secondary to stop a tight end.

Why? Why is more to ask the defense to do their job as well as the QB?

[Raptorman]

Plenty of blame to go around, but you are certifiable if you don't think Ponder is a large part of it. No amount of arguing will change that. The team is a mess, and the key people and coaches are the main problems. But im glad some of you are happy, as long as its just not Ponders fault.

No, Ponder is the only one being blamed. I'm not happy. I'm not happy Ponder missed some of those throws. I'm not happy the worst punt of the game comes at the end of the game when they need a long punt. I'm not happy the defense let them march down the field and score in the last 3 minutes of the game. I'm not happy the O-line is like a sieve letting the defense through in less then 3 seconds. There is plenty of blame to go around, but unfortunately just about everyone here is focused on one man. Ponder. And like I said. Replace him with Cassel and nothing else changes, the Vikings still lose. Period. But he only thing being discussed here is Ponder and how bad he is. No matter how a thread starts, it ends up about Ponder.

The best player on a team is the backup QB when the starting QB is not doing well.

[Reignman]

Unfortunately it's become all about him. Because he is not the next Aaron Rodgers, who btw posted 64.5 passer rating today, .1 point higher than Ponder. But that's beside the point. If they take out Ponder and everyone else plays the way they played today and last week, the Vikings still lose. You can't give up 32 points a game and win. Now, is Ponder responsible for some of those 32 points game. Yes. But he is not responsible for the last drives by the Bears or the Browns. Those are all on the defense. Particularly the Bears. That was off a kickoff. And then of course, Locke comes up with his shortest punt of the game at 35 yards. After having punts of 45, 44, 57 and 50 earlier in the game at the end, nope, 35 yards.

How do you figure? If you plug in a QB that can convert 3rd downs we don't need to rely on our crappy defense to hold onto a 3 point lead. Not to mention we probably have a 2 score lead with a different QB. Someone that isn't late on throws to wide open receivers in the EZ.

[Reignman]

Unfortunately it's become all about him. Because he is not the next Aaron Rodgers, who btw posted 64.5 passer rating today, .1 point higher than Ponder. But that's beside the point.

No it is the point. Rodgers sucked today, but that was the exception for him, whereas Ponders performance was more the norm. Rodgers lowered himself to Ponders level, it would be nice if Ponder could even once elevate himself to Rodgers level. Just once! Not a half once every 4th game, but an actual full game. Take control and dominate.

[S197]

It's the coaching first and foremost. What we have is a regression in every facet of the game right now. Yes, there are key areas of deficiency within the players but when you have such widespread dysfunction, you need to look further up the chain of command. It's no different than any other business. I think the only person on the team that doesn't look like he's taken a step back is Blair Walsh. Everyone else to some degree has regressed. Offense, defense, and special teams, it's bad everywhere. That's just a horrible sign of leadership. When there's something this wrong, you start at the top and work your way down. If a bank lost $50 million dollars in a year, they wouldn't be arguing over whether it's the teller or the loan officer's fault, the CEO would be given his walking papers.

The expression, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" rings true. Vikings fans are spewing their venom at Ponder and Musgrave exactly like they did at Tarvaris and Bevell. The root of the problem is we never really got rid of all of the problem in the first place and until that's done, the pawns will change but the game stays the same.

[yezzir]

No, Ponder is the only one being blamed. I'm not happy. I'm not happy Ponder missed some of those throws. I'm not happy the worst punt of the game comes at the end of the game when they need a long punt. I'm not happy the defense let them march down the field and score in the last 3 minutes of the game. I'm not happy the O-line is like a sieve letting the defense through in less then 3 seconds. There is plenty of blame to go around, but unfortunately just about everyone here is focused on one man. Ponder. And like I said. Replace him with Cassel and nothing else changes, the Vikings still lose. Period. But he only thing being discussed here is Ponder and how bad he is. No matter how a thread starts, it ends up about Ponder.

The best player on a team is the backup QB when the starting QB is not doing well.

I think a lot of the frustration from us fans lies with the seemingly "Ponder or nothing" vibe from the Vikings staff.

[BGM]

How do you figure? If you plug in a QB that can convert 3rd downs we don't need to rely on our crappy defense to hold onto a 3 point lead. Not to mention we probably have a 2 score lead with a different QB. Someone that isn't late on throws to wide open receivers in the EZ.

Does that other QB score two TDs rushing? What If's are so unsatisfying and a waste of time. Personally, I would like to see what Cassel can do, or even MBT. But I doubt it will happen. Since that variable will not change, I would like to see what could be done to solidify the OL and Defense, which have both become Swiss cheese.

[purpletinted66]

Does that other QB score two TDs rushing?

uhm, short of despising a good result, i do not enjoy watching ponder defaulting to scrambling for td's and 1st downs as if that's his most consistent means of production: not only is it unbecoming of his skittish presence but he might hurt his finger and not even be good for us as a backup in an important game....

[radar55]

I understand the argument about Ponder being "THE CAUSE" his play is dreadfull and embarrassing but I don't understand the blind belief that this defense is not directly responsible for the last 2 losses when you look at the fact that the team had the lead with 3 minutes left in both games and it was the defense (not Ponder) who allowed both Chicago and Cleveland to waltz down the field and score on their final drive to win both games. This point simply can not be argued. What happened prior to the last drive is not material any more than what did or did not happen in the 1st half.

I am not a Ponder supporter, I would love to see if Cassell could light a fire under these bums but when all is said and done this is really one of those which came 1st the chicken or the egg issues and believe it or not.....some things are not Ponders fault.

[Reignman]

Does that other QB score two TDs rushing? What If's are so unsatisfying and a waste of time. Personally, I would like to see what Cassel can do, or even MBT. But I doubt it will happen. Since that variable will not change, I would like to see what could be done to solidify the OL and Defense, which have both become Swiss cheese.

No he's probably capable of throwing 2 TD's there xD, but just to change the subject for a sec ... how nice would it be if we ran AD up the middle from more of those 4 wide formations instead of always from the bunch formation? It would be such an easy thing for Musgrave to do and it would make him look more imaginative. Not to mention AD would probably average 8 YPC.