WTF were you thinking

[The Breeze]

Personally, what made that last possession so controvesial was that it was the second failure of the half to get 6 after very good drives. The previous zed zone attempt nearly resulted in a TO after Wright dropped that ball.

The last 2 Bears drives, before the game winner, went nowhere. I can understand a decision to go up 6 with under 3 minutes, thinking the defense will continue to handle the Bears.

I would've rather they passed on the 3rd down....but the bigger issue is why the defense could not prevent a TD to win the game.
It's kind of bogus to me to fault the playcalling on offense for generating two long drives for points and a lead while the defense screwed the pooch with the game on the line.
They got manhandled on that last drive.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The sad fact of the matter is Fraizer and Musgrave play the game a lot like Childress. And that's go for the FG in that type of situation. And Im betting when they got the FG, just about every Viking fan felt as I did, we will lose this game because, once again, we settle for a FG. I am sick of it. I cant believe some are trying to defend it, unless they just like to argue.

[Crax]

I really don't know what difference you're talking about. I honestly don't see it beyond the obvious differences.

Yes, the completely obvious HUGE difference that gaining 4 yards over 3 plays is completely different than gaining 4 yards on a single play.

For all I know there may be stats to back that up but what I want to know is why the 3rd and 4 run supposedly has less chance of success. If I'm not mistaken, that's what you're implying, correct?

I'm implying that gaining 4 yards over a single play is harder/more difficult than averaging 1.34 yards a play over 3 plays. It's first and 4 and you run it, as long as you don't lose yards, you're still in a good position. Running on 1st and 4 is low risk. The risk isn't the same on 3rd and 4, especially 3rd and 4 in crunch time at the end of the game.

The yards to go are the same in both instances and it seems to me that in both situations, it really just comes down to which team executes best. What am I missing? I'm not trying to be difficult or sarcastic. I really don't understand the point you're trying to make.

That comparing 1st and 4 in the 2nd quarter with over half the game left to 3rd and 4 with the game possibly on the line really isn't the same situation? You disliked my comparison earlier, but you're sitting here comparing things that aren't really even similar situations. The only real similarity is the amount of yards needed.

Why does Tony Romo put up huge numbers but screw up in crunch time? Making plays is making plays, right? Why do people talk about certain players being "clutch" or not?

What I don't see is why a 1st and 4 run is somehow inherently easier than a 3rd and 4 run (in goal line situations). For all I know there may be stats to back that up .

I'd guess that most RB's average less yards on 3rd, but I don't have the money to purchase stats from Elias or Stats Inc. I've tinkered with tracking Vikings stats on my own, but we'll see how that works out. Than I may be able to answer things like "What does peterson average on 1st down vs 3rd down"

[DaveinAZ]

As I try to understand my number 1 and only team,
I stated that doing the same thing over and over
again, and then expecting a different ( Better ) outcome
is one definition of insanity!
There are plenty of faults we all have to deal with, yet we can chose to
NOT repeat them for obvious reasons.
If we put Ponder on the bench...then someone made a mistake drafting him.
OUCH..Talk about a slap, if we question our coaching staff and they admit mistakes
wouldn't it be a reasonable answer to CHANGE what they are doing!?!
Turnovers happen, that's a part of the game...Having players making poor choices
fall's on both.
I like Ponder! he is 100% effort...that doesn't mean he is 100% NFL starter,
neither is Cassel the journeyman.
We can't put any blame on 1 person, It is and always be a team game...
However EVERY WINNING TEAM has had at least 1 true Leader, I don't see one now.

[Mothman]

That comparing 1st and 4 in the 2nd quarter with over half the game left to 3rd and 4 with the game possibly on the line really isn't the same situation? You disliked my comparison earlier, but you're sitting here comparing things that aren't really even similar situations. The only real similarity is the amount of yards needed.

Right, and that's the point. The yards needed are the same and they've shown that they're capable of gaining those yards on one play. Consequently, there's no reason to believe that running AD on 3rd and goal from the 4 was a concession and not a genuine effort to score a TD. I understand that the two game situations were different but that doesn't change the odds of scoring the TD on one play. If they can do it on first down, there's no reason they can't do the same thing on another down. The circumstances effect the choice to run or pass but not the specifics of the play. It doesn't matter if it's the second quarter or the fourth, if it's first down or third down, it just comes down to which team executes better. The same thing would be true on a passing play.

Why do so many coaches run on 1st and 10, but not on 3rd and 10? Because down and distance is a big deal?

That's correct, but we're not talking about 3rd and 10, we're talking about 3rd and 4. That's not a "must pass" situation for a team with a good running game.

I get the impression from the tone of your posts that you thought I was intentionally being difficult but I honestly didn't understand what distinction you were trying to make. I apologize if it seemed otherwise.

[Crax]

That's correct, but we're not talking about 3rd and 10, we're talking about 3rd and 4. That's not a "must pass" situation for a team with a good running game.

Nothing around 10 is necessarily a must pass, especially in the 2nd quarter. I'm not against running on 3rd and 10 in certain situations. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Vikings have done runs up the middle on 3rd and long plenty of times. If your goal isn't to run the clock, I don't believe run to the left on 3rd and 4 is a good call. As I already pointed out, Peterson finished below 4 yards a carry(3.8 ), so it's not like we were running the ball all that great either. If Peterson had 200 yards and our line was punishing them, sure, go ahead and run it. I consider 4 yards at the goal line a bit different with the compressed space as well. If it was 3rd and 6 at midfield while driving for the win, I wouldn't be real happy with a run left then either.

[Reignman]

Oh man, I was rewatching the game and at the 1:00 mark of the 4th quarter on 3rd n 1, Marshall knocks Robinson on his #### then makes a wide open catch for a first down. I mean Marshall starts running up field at the snap and at the 5 yard mark Robinson puts his hands out like he's going to give him a bump but Marshall just plows him into the ground and cuts toward the sideline where he makes the wide open catch. WTF were you thinking Robinson? But why was Robinson on Marshall anyway? Man that whole last drive doesn't make any sense to me.

[Mothman]

Nothing around 10 is necessarily a must pass, especially in the 2nd quarter. I'm not against running on 3rd and 10 in certain situations. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Vikings have done runs up the middle on 3rd and long plenty of times. If your goal isn't to run the clock, I don't believe run to the left on 3rd and 4 is a good call. As I already pointed out, Peterson finished below 4 yards a carry(3.8 ), so it's not like we were running the ball all that great either. If Peterson had 200 yards and our line was punishing them, sure, go ahead and run it. I consider 4 yards at the goal line a bit different with the compressed space as well. If it was 3rd and 6 at midfield while driving for the win, I wouldn't be real happy with a run left then either.

I don't think it was a particularly good call either and it was definitely a conservative call. My point was just that even though the call was conservative, I don't think they were necessarily conceding the TD and settling for a FG. It's a play that had a genuine chance to score. They've scored with it in the past. It just didn't work this time.

[Mothman]

Oh man, I was rewatching the game and at the 1:00 mark of the 4th quarter on 3rd n 1, Marshall knocks Robinson on his #### then makes a wide open catch for a first down. I mean Marshall starts running up field at the snap and at the 5 yard mark Robinson puts his hands out like he's going to give him a bump but Marshall just plows him into the ground and cuts toward the sideline where he makes the wide open catch. WTF were you thinking Robinson? But why was Robinson on Marshall anyway? Man that whole last drive doesn't make any sense to me.

It certainly doesn't make sense to have Robinson covering Marshall.

[dead_poet]

PFF breaks down the play:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -week-2-2/

[Mothman]

PFF breaks down the play:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -week-2-2/

Thanks for the link. This says it all:

Much has been said about the Vikings’ defensive call on the play, but the two-deep coverage they tried to get into would have had a good chance of success. The failure on the play wasn’t that of the chalkboard or play-calling, but rather the failure of the players on the field to ensure that everybody understood what the call had become.

Memo to Smith and Cook: you knew there was a problem. Next time, call a timeout!

[The Breeze]

PFF breaks down the play:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -week-2-2/

Thanks for the link. This says it all:
Memo to Smith and Cook: you knew there was a problem. Next time, call a timeout!

But they only had 3 TOs left.....if you save up enough of them they can be redeemed at the end of the season for cool prizes.

[Funkytown]

But they only had 3 TOs left.....if you save up enough of them they can be redeemed at the end of the season for cool prizes.

The stuff you come up with.

[yezzir]

But they only had 3 TOs left.....if you save up enough of them they can be redeemed at the end of the season for cool prizes.

Are Chinese handcuffs available?

[dead_poet]

This is going to go over well.

Christian Ponder says he didn't have the option to check to a pass on third-and-goal from 4. Wanted to run clock, make sure they got 3. Huh.