AP's Dissappearing Trick....

[Purple bruise]

If you want to know why he disappeared, just look at where he was getting first contact. When a RB is consistently getting hit behind the LOS, that's a sign the defense is getting through too easily. When it happens a few times, that can usually be chalked up to a guy losing a one-on-one battle at the line. When it happens consistently, as it did against the Lions, something far worse is usually happening, and that is the defense is flooding the lanes and overwhelming the number of blockers. And when that happens, it's the surest sign you can have that the defense has zero respect for the opponent's ability to pass. Even though AD didn't set foot on the field beyond 2 meaningless snaps at San Fran, this is how every defense has played the Vikings since the preseason started. Last year they brought a lot of guys up, but were careful not to sell out by sending everyone on plays that could be runs. But with the stats telling no lies and based on plenty of tape, I believe most defensive coordinators have concluded the Vikings are no threat to seriously burn them.

I find it somewhat disheartening to listen to Frazier and Ponder complain about the blocking, quite honestly, and the Vikings say the Bears lack the same defensive line talent as the Lions and therefore the Vikings can expect an improvement. If the Bears are smart, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, they're going to do the exact same thing to the Vikings that the Lions, 49ers, and Bills did when the starters were on the field. On downs that aren't obvious passing plays or when the Vikings get into their now famous bunched formations, expect what amounts to a zero blitz, plenty of defenders in the backfield almost immediately, and plenty of runs for negative yardage. Also, expect to see a lot more of Ponder's famous rollouts where he either holds the ball too long, manages to fire an inaccurate pass, or does his tuck-and-run schtick. I expect Patterson to ride the bench most of the game, lots more 3-and-outs, and just general ineffectiveness across the board. Unfortunately, things aren't going to change until it is painfully obvious they have to change, and for this coaching staff that looks like its going to be a while yet based on the comments they are making.

If the Vikings don't commit turnovers the score will be closer. If they do, and the Bears turn them into points, this is likely to be another blowout.

Show me any where that Ponder complained about the blocking. He would certainly have every right to but every presser that I have watched or heard he takes the bulk of the blame very freely yet his pass protection truly does suck. Maybe I missed it but statements like this, " I find it somewhat disheartening to listen to Frazier and Ponder complain about the blocking" I find it hard for me to believe and quite disheartening

[VikingLord]

Show me any where that Ponder complained about the blocking. He would certainly have every right to but every presser that I have watched or heard he takes the bulk of the blame very freely yet his pass protection truly does suck. Maybe I missed it but statements like this, " I find it somewhat disheartening to listen to Frazier and Ponder complain about the blocking" I find it hard for me to believe and quite disheartening

After the game against Buffalo where Ponder and the 1st team offense did nothing all game, Ponder blamed the lack of offensive production on "exotic blitzes" that the Bills threw at the Vikings. While that isn't direct criticism of the offensive line, it could certainly be interpreted that way. Ponder didn't say he had to handle those better or be better prepared for them. It was a "we" statement.

Since that game, Kalil's name has been brought up by Frazier multiple times. He's said outright that Kalil's play has not been what they need it to be.

I'd have to go back to look for all of these post-game comments and pressers if you need them quoted verse, but I can assure you I did not just pull this out of my behind.

[Purple bruise]

After the game against Buffalo where Ponder and the 1st team offense did nothing all game, Ponder blamed the lack of offensive production on "exotic blitzes" that the Bills threw at the Vikings. While that isn't direct criticism of the offensive line, it could certainly be interpreted that way. Ponder didn't say he had to handle those better or be better prepared for them. It was a "we" statement.

Since that game, Kalil's name has been brought up by Frazier multiple times. He's said outright that Kalil's play has not been what they need it to be.

I'd have to go back to look for all of these post-game comments and pressers if you need them quoted verse, but I can assure you I did not just pull this out of my behind.

Ponder is the whipping boy and catches the blame for nearly everything that goes wrong but I assure you that he is not complaining publicly about his blocking even though it really is quite pathetic. He is trying to become one of the leaders of the team and those types of statements would be crazy to make, especially in public. Not a big deal but I found it quite puzzling. I certainly could see Frazier making public comments about some poor blocking though.

[VikingLord]

Ponder is the whipping boy and catches the blame for nearly everything that goes wrong but I assure you that he is not complaining publicly about his blocking even though it really is quite pathetic. He is trying to become one of the leaders of the team and those types of statements would be crazy to make, especially in public. Not a big deal but I found it quite puzzling. I certainly could see Frazier making public comments about some poor blocking though.

You don't believe Ponder said the Bills threw exotic blitzes at the Vikings?

[J. Kapp 11]

I think he looks OK minus the problems our line is having. He looks like pre-2012 AD. I think we just got super spoiled by the 2012 AD that he seems a little off so far. But it's early. Wait until he gets into full game shape and gets a few under his belt and gets Felton back. Then we will watch him be amazing again.

Here's something else.

During the first half, AP had his cleats changed. He clearly was not getting the footing he needed. Putting longer cleats on your shoes is going to make you slower. It's just a fact. AP was sacrificing speed for the ability to cut.

Also, I distinctly remember a phenomenal jump cut in the second half -- it was in the red zone, where the field wasn't as sloppy. The field was definitely a factor for AP on Sunday -- and he still gained 100 yards, and that with a 13-yard loss tossed in that was clearly due in large measure to the field conditions.

Against Detroit, he showed what he can do with any kind of running room. After his opening play, he was hit in the backfield more than he wasn't. Nobody is going to gain a lot of yards when hit in the backfield time after time.

I don't think there's anything wrong with AP.

[Mothman]

After the game against Buffalo where Ponder and the 1st team offense did nothing all game, Ponder blamed the lack of offensive production on "exotic blitzes" that the Bills threw at the Vikings. While that isn't direct criticism of the offensive line, it could certainly be interpreted that way.

Ponder didn't say he had to handle those better or be better prepared for them. It was a "we" statement.

But don't you think it should have been a "we" statement since the OL was clearly surprised and unprepared for what the Bills threw at them in that game? They played terribly. Ponder didn't exclude himself from blame and I doubt the linemen saw it any differently. If I remember correctly, some of them made similar statements after the game.

Since that game, Kalil's name has been brought up by Frazier multiple times. He's said outright that Kalil's play has not been what they need it to be.

Okay, but he wasn't wrong. The criticism was accurate. Kalil's performance in the preseason and against the Lions wasn't a result of getting beat repeatedly by defenders flooding lanes. He played poorly. I don't remember how he played against the Bears but I don't remember him standing out in a bad way and peppers didn't do much so he was probably solid this week. The line as a whole had a rough first half. They were much better in the second half.

I believe defenses are flooding lanes for several reasons:

— The Vikings' blockers don't always handle it well.
— It's a great strategy for slowing/stopping Peterson.
— Ponder doesn't always handle it well either.

It's not just a Ponder issue, it's an offensive issue. That sort of attacking strategy on defense is a time-tested way to throw an offense off it's game and it takes a concerted effort by the entire offense to force a defense out of that strategy by burning them enough to get them to back off.

[Just Me]

I said for AD its an average because, he is our offense. And a lot of those yards and rushing TD was on the opening play. 1 play. He has been very bottled up since. And then the TOs. Again, I love him and watching him. Against our divisional opponents I was hoping for more, esp. against the Bears. Oh well. 0-2 has me down.

Peterson has always had "breakaway plays" figured into his stats. I do not agree with somehow discounting the 78 yard play because many of his other runs were pedestrian by comparison. If you takeaway all of his "breakaway plays" from last year, his stats would look less than impressive too. Using that criteria, I'm thinking Barry Sanders' ypc stat would be around 2 ypc. If Peterson is struggling as badly as some believe, he won't get another "breakaway" this season, and his stats will indeed be mediocre at season's end. (Anyone care to bet that will be the case?). I think it is an interesting perspective that he actually is more productive this year than last. It's not even necessary to manipulate the statistics (e.g. take away a 78 yard run which he deserves credit for) to point out why this is not necessarily indicative of the upcoming season. Last Season, Peterson was coming off of his injury and he was seeing less playing time (Percy was "carrying the load then") in the first few games. I could be wrong, but I would think his ypc stat would be less at this point in the season than last, despite that fact his aggregate yardage is higher. It just seems like many are trying to imply that because Peterson got a huge chunk of yardage on 1 play it somehow "doesn't count."

[Mothman]

I know it's slightly off-topic but since I just mentioned him above:

Vikings tackle Matt Kalil bounces back with solid showing

Matt Kalil was hardly noticed Sunday, and for the Vikings' embattled left tackle that was a good thing.

Kalil overcame a false-start penalty that short-circuited a second-quarter drive to play solidly against Chicago's superstar pass rusher Julius Peppers and tamp down criticism of his recent performances.

"I've gotten some criticism the last few weeks for not playing up to my potential," Kalil said after Minnesota's 31-30 loss. "I think I had a really good game against (Pepper). He's still a tough player to play against.'

... and now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Adrian Peterson's 2013 season.

[Crax]

AP should be fine. Seems to be in good spirits at least...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=167333303465846

[VikingLord]

But don't you think it should have been a "we" statement since the OL was clearly surprised and unprepared for what the Bills threw at them in that game? They played terribly. Ponder didn't exclude himself from blame and I doubt the linemen saw it any differently. If I remember correctly, some of them made similar statements after the game.

Sure, he can make a "we" statement, but what I want him to focus on is his part of the "we". I didn't get that from what he said. It's like he's accepting responsibility, while at the same time implying there were factors beyond his control. It's s subtle distinction, but not one that is minor since if Ponder really feels the Bills and their exotic rushes in a preseason game justified the poor performance on his part, then maybe he has nothing to fix.

I don't know - it's a small distinction, but what I want to hear him say is "I need to read those blitzes better and start burning them regardless of the context". Simple, to the point, and something directly under his control, plus it shows he gets his role in the breakdowns that lead to more blitzing.

But on an objective scale, it is definitely a "we", and so he's technically correct.

Okay, but he wasn't wrong. The criticism was accurate. Kalil's performance in the preseason and against the Lions wasn't a result of getting beat repeatedly by defenders flooding lanes. He played poorly. I don't remember how he played against the Bears but I don't remember him standing out in a bad way and peppers didn't do much so he was probably solid this week. The line as a whole had a rough first half. They were much better in the second half.

But once again, it's Frazier focusing on Kalil instead of Frazier focusing on Frazier.

On a much more encouraging note, however, Frazier definitely did that after the game against the Bears, so he gets a pass. Purple Bruise took the liberty of quoting something I posted prior to the game after the game, so as far as Frazier is concerned I consider the circumstances changed enough to warrant me backing off on this.

Bottom line for me in regards to this post is Purple Bruise basically implied I was making up things that Ponder and Frazier said that they did in fact say at different points. I'm not interested in arguing the bigger picture. You are exactly right in everything you're saying. What gets on my nerves a bit is the post-humous quote and the implication I'm making stuff up because I have an agenda against Frazier and/or Ponder, neither of which is true.

And as far as that particular piece goes, what I want is for both to clearly demonstrate they understand their role in things when things don't go well. As I said, Frazier clearly did that after the loss to the Bears. Ponder, I'm not so sure about yet. He certainly hasn't clearly clamped down by saying the equivalent of "forget the receivers, forget the offensive line, forget the running game, forget the playcalling, this is what I'm not doing well and I need to do better". If he has said that, at least I haven't heard it. What I have heard is the "we" stuff and as I said, that leaves the door open to a wide variety of possible causes.

[Purple bruise]

Wow, I took the liberty to post something you said I apologize if that offended you. Maybe I should ask first Anyway, simply I was questioning your statement that implied that you were/are disheartened by Ponder and Frazier in essence complaining about the offensive line. I told you it was not a big deal and I could see the coach certainly complaining about any aspect of the team but not the QB complaining publicly about it. I also said if he was I would like to see where that came from. You cited that Ponder had said that the Bills had used some exotic blitzes and I can not for the life of me see how you interpeted that as Ponder complaining about the o-line play. If anything that would be an excuse for the o-line not a complaint. Ponder screws up enough on the field and rightfully gets lambasted for it but as I said I don't think that he did or said anything wrong in this instance. We obviously interput some things differently , we can agree to disagree. skol

[VikingLord]

Wow, I took the liberty to post something you said I apologize if that offended you. Maybe I should ask first Anyway, simply I was questioning your statement that implied that you were/are disheartened by Ponder and Frazier in essence complaining about the offensive line. I told you it was not a big deal and I could see the coach certainly complaining about any aspect of the team but not the QB complaining publicly about it. I also said if he was I would like to see where that came from. You cited that Ponder had said that the Bills had used some exotic blitzes and I can not for the life of me see how you interpeted that as Ponder complaining about the o-line play. If anything that would be an excuse for the o-line not a complaint. Ponder screws up enough on the field and rightfully gets lambasted for it but as I said I don't think that he did or said anything wrong in this instance. We obviously interput some things differently , we can agree to disagree. skol

If you want to question where I read what I posted, that's one thing. If you want to disagree with my interpretation of it, that's fine.

But you implied that I was making it up and that it had never been said. Then you put a sarcastic cherry on top of it to boot. And then you do it again here.

Why don't you just leave the sarcasm out?

[Purple bruise]

Again, and with zero sarcasm. I simply wanted to know your source of being "disheartened" by what Ponder was saying about his offensive line. That statement suprised me that he was saying such things. When I asked you where you got that from you said he mentioned after the Buffalo game that they were using exotic blitzes which you obviously interpeted as Ponder talking negatively about their blocking.
Hey if that is how you interpeted that statement then so be it, I just do not happen to agree with your take. Was there anything else he said to make you feel that way? Just a simple question with a simple answer would have sufficed. No need to get defensive and I was not for a moment saying or intimating that you made anything up. Sorry if I offended you.