"The Next Step" for Christian Ponder

[King James]

Or....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZv62ShoStY

Or ever better !!!

[Funkytown]

Edit for more of the stats you're looking for:

20+ TD's, 12 or lower INT's, 3,500 to 4,000 yards (this really depends on if Adrian drops down to say a 1500 yard year, or hops up to that 2500 he's after, if he's approaching 2000+ again Ponder won't get to 4000) 6.7+ yards per attempt, 65% completion rate, 70 rushes (scrambles) for 300 yards, 3 rushing TD's. QBR 95+

Thanks. Here is a start!

So far, mostly everything is purely subjective. That's what I was trying to get away from. The entire point was to get more of an objective standard, a reference point so to speak.

I agree with you guys--that individual stats aren't everything. But, that doesn't change the fact that that is how Ponder is going to be judged. That's just how it works. Fans have a lot of opinions about his stats, so I wanted to see where people think he should be at by year's end. Honestly, I would think that people on both sides would have similar expectations, but maybe not. Of course, some people are more forgiving than others.

[SLCVikefan]

To be fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30CVhW-yuY

See, there is little reason to be optimistic!

[Eli]

See, there is little reason to be optimistic!

I love the opening of that video. The audible reaction to the Vikings picking Ponder at #12 was what I'd imagine it would sound like if everyone in Radio City Music Hall farted at the same time.

[Mothman]

Thanks. Here is a start!

So far, mostly everything is purely subjective. That's what I was trying to get away from. The entire point was to get more of an objective standard, a reference point so to speak.

I get it but I think the message many of us are sending is that there is no clear numerical standard to hold up as a goal.

As I alluded to above, I think scoring will be one of the best statistical indicators. More than anything else, that should help us see how effectively Ponder is leading the offense.

I agree with you guys--that individual stats aren't everything. But, that doesn't change the fact that that is how Ponder is going to be judged. That's just how it works. Fans have a lot of opinions about his stats, so I wanted to see where people think he should be at by year's end. Honestly, I would think that people on both sides would have similar expectations, but maybe not. Of course, some people are more forgiving than others.

If you really want hard numbers, I'd say in this offense, 20+ TDs, 3300+ yards (an average of 200+ yards per game), 12 INTs or less, 6.5+ yards per attempt and a 63% completion percentage or higher could be fine. If they run a little less and throw a little more, the yardage total should be higher. A lot depends on the run-to-pass ratio and Musgrave's philosophy. That's going to influence the numbers.

[mansquatch]

I'm fine with him making plays with his feet. THe key is he makes plays. There is a difference between happy feet and taking the opportunity that is there. Ponder is athletic, so there is no reason that shouldn't be part of his game so long as it doesn't hurt other aspects.

My big stat is INT. I want less than 12. That stat alone will win them football games. The yardage thing isn't that big of a deal to me. If he is throwing designed small ball stuff that is netting them yards like it did last season with PH, then I don't care. Same with his overall yardage, if he is at 3500 yard and AP runs for 2000, chances are we are in the playoffs and probably with a bye week, so who really cares?

Bottom line is they need more positive plays out of the QB.

[Mothman]

I'm fine with him making plays with his feet. THe key is he makes plays. There is a difference between happy feet and taking the opportunity that is there. Ponder is athletic, so there is no reason that shouldn't be part of his game so long as it doesn't hurt other aspects.

My big stat is INT. I want less than 12. That stat alone will win them football games. The yardage thing isn't that big of a deal to me. If he is throwing designed small ball stuff that is netting them yards like it did last season with PH, then I don't care. Same with his overall yardage, if he is at 3500 yard and AP runs for 2000, chances are we are in the playoffs and probably with a bye week, so who really cares?

Bottom line is they need more positive plays out of the QB.

Exactly. Move the team and score! That's what matters. He can do it with his arm or with his feet. The key is to do it. I don't even care that much about the INT numbers themselves as I care about the nature of the mistakes. INTs that occur on desperation throws at the end of a half or game are meaningless. If a QB heaves up a Hail Mary and it gets picked, that doesn't look good in the stat column but it's not a bad decision. If a QB squanders a scoring opportunity in the third quarter by throwing a pick into the chest of a defender, that's a bad play!

[NextQuestion]

Ponder: Alright coach...what shall we work on next?

Musgrave: Here...this is a tape of TNF and Manning destroying the Ravens. Watch this and try to learn. I'll try too.

Ponder: Herp a derp!

[Hunter Morrow]

I think his next step is CFL or Arena Football. I'm just not buying into him. He showed me jack in this preseason.
To top it all off, Peterson having another 2400 total yard season, or even 2000 yard season, against our murderer's row
schedule is not likely. The real capper is, if we had a dynamite line they could bail a mediocre QB out but they've regressed
I think. Especially Sullivan and Kalil.

This year will be a trial by fire from game 1. No Felton and a front four of Fairly, Jones, Suh and a high draft pick, Ezekiel Ansah, who looks to be the real deal.
On the road, no less!

[mansquatch]

Thanks. Here is a start!

So far, mostly everything is purely subjective. That's what I was trying to get away from. The entire point was to get more of an objective standard, a reference point so to speak.

I agree with you guys--that individual stats aren't everything. But, that doesn't change the fact that that is how Ponder is going to be judged. That's just how it works. Fans have a lot of opinions about his stats, so I wanted to see where people think he should be at by year's end. Honestly, I would think that people on both sides would have similar expectations, but maybe not. Of course, some people are more forgiving than others.

IMO, part of it depends on the load they give AP. If AP is putting up a 150-175 a game, which after last season is possible, then Ponder's numbers are going to be lower just due to a lack of touches.

I'm looking for more positive plays and fewer negative plays out of the passing game as a whole. At this point in the season, ie we haven't played a snap yet, I think the improvement in both talent and overall health of the WR corps should create at least 2-4 more positive plays simply due to their being more viable targers available. On top of that I want to see Ponder put up more positive plays himself. I don't give specifc stats aside from INT, because of aside from INT I think the rest of it doesn't equate to much. Peyton Manning puts up 4000 yard season on avg, but he is carrying the offensive load. AS long as #28 plays like #28, Ponder will never have to do that. So the question of stats is more about what is needed to make hte offense formidable. Right now that to me is more about positive plays that some arbitrary stat line.

Look at it this way. If he goes 15/20 for 180 yards, 2TD, no picks, and AP puts up 150 and we win 21-10. Is that a bad game? I don't think so.

[mondry]

Look at it this way. If he goes 15/20 for 180 yards, 2TD, no picks, and AP puts up 150 and we win 21-10. Is that a bad game? I don't think so.

Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad game if that's exactly how it played out. We don't have the 2000 ravens defense though so I don't see them holding a lot of teams under 10 points. There will be a couple of games like that where he won't have to break 200 yards (hell their were quite a few last year even, with the defense / special teams scoring, 80+ yard peterson TD runs, etc.) but for the most part I really think he'll need to be around 250 for "most games" with an occasional 300+ needed. Definitely agree though that lowering the negative mistakes with a lower int / fumble or even taking less sacks will be huge.

[Mercy Percy]

I think his next step is CFL or Arena Football. I'm just not buying into him. He showed me jack in this preseason.
To top it all off, Peterson having another 2400 total yard season, or even 2000 yard season, against our murderer's row
schedule is not likely. The real capper is, if we had a dynamite line they could bail a mediocre QB out but they've regressed
I think. Especially Sullivan and Kalil.

This year will be a trial by fire from game 1. No Felton and a front four of Fairly, Jones, Suh and a high draft pick, Ezekiel Ansah, who looks to be the real deal.
On the road, no less!

I think you are over reacting remember this is the pre season......

[DavidKarki]

Ponder: Alright coach...what shall we work on next?

Musgrave: Here...this is a tape of TNF and Manning destroying the Ravens. Watch this and try to learn. I'll try too.

Ponder: Herp a derp!

And just what makes you think Musgrave has any clue what a spread offense and/or the read option are and appreciates their effectiveness in the slightest?

In my book, Musgrave is just as much the "herp a derp"-er as Ponder....2 TEs and a FB to run 30+ times a game in the Pass Wacky Era? Really? Seriously?

I know we can play the chicken-and-the-egg game all day long between Ponder and Musgrave's warmed-over Childress KAO. I'll settle for it being a "both/and" rather than an "either/or" proposition with those two. Same goes for the defense, clinging to the Tampa Two long after it has run its course. A decade of seeing opposing QBs play pitch-and-catch with slot WRs and TEs behind the LBs and between the safeties to convert third-and-long is quite enough.

At what point do we hold the coaching responsible for using such simplistic schemes that are SO out of step with the times? (Or, for that matter, Zygi for not conducting a real search after firing Childress but promoting all the in-house status quo until the stadium issue was resolved.) Are the Vikings really determined to be the last team to the table when it comes to spreading and throwing so as to exploit the rigged rules? Is it going to take Peterson retiring or blowing out another knee before they start adapting?

[dead_poet]

And just what makes you think Musgrave has any clue what a spread offense and/or the read option are and appreciates their effectiveness in the slightest?

What makes you think our offense/players is/are best suited for those schemes? Given the speed of NFL defenses, the vertical seams created by spread offenses close up quickly. Additionally, quarterbacks are more vulnerable to injury since he is the ball carrier more often than in a typical pro-style offense and the amount of protection is decreased with the backs and receivers being used to spread the defense instead of providing pass protection. You need the personnel to make these viable options and I don't think we have it (nor is the team experienced enough with it to execute successfully, consistently). It's okay to NOT run an offense like RGIII. You can still be successful from traditional formations.

Clinging to the Tampa Two long after it has run its course.

Chicago has run the Tampa Two with a great deal of success. This is a relevant, interesting read: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/83925 ... n-magazine

At what point do we hold the coaching responsible for using such simplistic schemes that are SO out of step with the times?

I think some fans mistakenly associate "simplistic" with "rushing." I thought Musgrave's approach to the running game last season was rather brilliant. I'd suggest reading: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... hool-style

Are the Vikings really determined to be the last team to the table when it comes to spreading and throwing so as to exploit the rigged rules?

When you have the league MVP running back behind an unproven -- but to this point below-average -- QB and below-average WRs? Uh, I don't care. Run All Freaking Day as long as it's working. Plus, as teams draft faster/lighter LBs/DBs, that'll just make AD more and more lethal.

Is it going to take Peterson retiring or blowing out another knee before they start adapting?

Let's work with what we have first and play to our strengths instead of into our opponents hands and trying to be something we're not. When we strike gold with an Andrew Luck/Randy Moss, THEN we can talk about tossing it all over the yard.

[Mothman]

Let's work with what we have first and play to our strengths instead of into our opponents hands and trying to be something we're not. When we strike gold with an Andrew Luck/Randy Moss, THEN we can talk about tossing it all over the yard.

Yes, but... but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9obgyYB1IU