Vikings @ 49ers Game Day Discussion Thread -- Preseason #3

[Reignman]

I'm just too depressed to even rant about Ponder. When your starter is being compared to Colt McCoy, you know it's going to be a long season. And you shouldn't laugh about his 6.08 avg last year, his avg was only 5.04 tonight vs mostly backups .... but Cassel WTF? What's it called when the 3rd stringer becomes the most popular player on the team?

[thatguy]

I'm encouraged by what I saw tonight! Just hope KWill is fine after that cheap shot by Looney (what a scumbag).

Here's looking forward to a great season ahead! SKOL!

[PacificNorseWest]

The optimist on my left shoulder is telling me that Ponder is just working out the kinks of not getting a lot work in preseason far. The pessimist on my right says we're destined to see the Ponder of last year, but with a 2nd place schedule, won't be nearly as favorable in the W-L column.

It is only preseason and I've seen things like this before where it all works out, but damn...I can't imagine the Niners showing much in this game defensively given their experience and know Pete is watching them like a hawk. Niners D or not...Ponder needs to move the ball.

And hey...Gerhart broke a tackle! I seent it!



Jim...Calm me down with your wisdom.

[VikingLord]

“There were some things solidified in my mind finishing that drive in the third quarter as we get ready for the regular season,” Frazier said. “I do have some resolve about some things I saw.”

Frazier is referring to the drive in the 3rd quarter where his starters finally moved the ball against the San Fran 2nd and 3rd stringers? The drive that was kept alive by two 49er penalties?

Granted, I didn't see the drive, and if I had perhaps I would share Frazier's optimism, but I stopped watching the game after the 1st quarter. I just couldn't stand watching any more of Ponder. As others noted, Ponder did do a better job of staying in the pocket, but he holds the ball way too long, doesn't take care of it, and his mechanics are horrific, leading to inaccurate throws. Burton is getting a lot of grief for pulling up on a throw, but I did see the throw Ponder made to him where Burton had to go way up to even have chance at it, and in doing so he got plowed.

Ponder won't throw it. When he does throw it, he throws it short. The 49ers play a very aggressive defense near the LOS. They are built to attack in that area. Running and throwing short are exactly what they want an offense to do. To beat that defense a QB has to be able to hurt them deep, and Ponder played right into their hands all night.

Yes, there are problems besides Ponder. The offensive line is playing like crap right now. Both Loadholt and Kalil look like they are not in playing shape to me, neither physically nor mentally. Both are displaying a disturbing lack of focus and discipline, and if that continues it's going to be a long year. As much as I think Fusco and Johnson deserve to be called out for their inconsistent play, they played better than Kalil and Loadholt tonight.

And also, as far as AD goes, why even put him out there? For 2 plays where he doesn't touch the ball?

If there is a bright side, the starting defense played well from what I saw, although at some point of the Viking offense consistently going 3-and-out they will break. Eventually, Kaepernick figured them out and he took advantage of it. This is the 3rd preseason game where starters should play into the 3rd quarter, and yet Harbaugh sat Kaepernick after the 1st once it was clear he had figured out how to beat the Vikings defense. Had he stayed in I think things would have been much worse than 34-14. And the 49ers didn't even run their option offense with him. It was generic, and yet effective once they got things dialed in. And watching Kaepernick, it's just a painful reminder of how an accurate, smart QB who can read the field and pull the trigger can make all the difference.

Anyway, it's preseason, but it's going to be a LONG season if the starting offense doesn't get on track, and I think as long as Ponder is the starting QB that is going to take either another monster effort by AD or the offensive line is going to have to improve by about 100% in the next 3 weeks.

[Odlid]

Gonna be a long and painful season...

[King James]

I tried to have faith in this guy but holy crap, PONDER SUCKS!! What I seen against the 49ers was a man who simply unable to be a starting QB in this league. Hopefully next year we can draft someone like Aaron Murray.

[Mothman]

The optimist on my left shoulder is telling me that Ponder is just working out the kinks of not getting a lot work in preseason far. The pessimist on my right says we're destined to see the Ponder of last year, but with a 2nd place schedule, won't be nearly as favorable in the W-L column.

It is only preseason and I've seen things like this before where it all works out, but damn...I can't imagine the Niners showing much in this game defensively given their experience and know Pete is watching them like a hawk. Niners D or not...Ponder needs to move the ball.

And hey...Gerhart broke a tackle! I seent it!



Jim...Calm me down with your wisdom.

LOL! I don't know if I have any soothing wisdom to offer but Gerhart did break a tackle. That was nice, eh?

I'm not surprised that a lot of the talk is about Ponder but I don't think Ponder is the story coming out of this game. Overall, he played okay. Once again, as we often saw last season, his receivers weren't getting much separation and he was getting poor protection. I thought he held onto the ball too long a couple times and made a couple of poor throws but he made some good plays as well. Like everybody else, I was watching the game on TV so I couldn't see the whole field but for the most part, against the SF starters, if they weren't running very quick, short timing routes, the receivers were blanketed. Ponder held it too long when he pump faked and threw high to Burton but most of the time, it seemed like he either got rid of it or held it because he had nowhere to go with it.

Overall, I was fine with the way he handled himself last night. He stepped up in the pocket and made a number of good throws. I don't expect perfection, especially against a really good defense, but aside from the aforementioned pump fake, I didn't see him make any bad decisions. I think the two turnovers were both due to mistakes by other players. The fumble was the result of Loadholt's inability to sustain his block. The QB can't be expected to stay at home, step up and throw if the line can't keep the defense away long enough for him to actually release the ball. Ponder's arm was swiped in the act of passing and there's no way for a QB to protect himself once he's started his throwing motion. The INT was on Burton. If he hadn't pulled up on his route, that pass would have hit him in the numbers. For what it's worth, during the broadcast Cris Collinsworth seemed to concur about both plays.

Anyway, enough about Ponder. As I said, I don't think he's the story. I thought the blocking and tackling were the main story. The o-line really struggled against SF's starters. Kalil was off his game and played dumb football. Loadholt proved once again that the L in his name stands for "liability" when he's facing a speedy pass rusher. I'll admit I didn't watch the inside play as closely but there were obviously quite a few plays where the 49ers were getting the best of the Vikes inside, either collapsing the pocket or stuffing the run. Ponder eluded a few sacks with his feet and with a less mobile QB, it might have been pretty ugly. The good news is this isn't a new problem and they won 10 games last year with the same o-line and the same issues. The bad news is they may have a tougher schedule and there aren't signs of improvement.

The starting defense looked very good on the first two series. They started the third well too but then Kaepernick chewed them up. Who knows if that would have continued or if they could have adjusted? As I mentioned earlier, what disturbed me over the course of the game was the poor tackling. There were a LOT of missed tackles. Credit for some of that has to go to the 49ers players but the Vikes absolutely must be better in that area. At least defenders were often in position to make tackles and make plays so they just need to do a better job of actually making them.

I'm guessing blocking and tackling will be a huge point of emphasis over the next few weeks.

For those on the ledge: it's still just a preseason game and it was on the road, against the NFC champs. The starters were competitive against SF's starters and the team's biggest difference-maker was on the bench. The playbook was still pretty vanilla and will undoubtedly be opened up when the games count. I'm not hitting the panic button but the team clearly has work to do if they want get back to the playoffs.

To end on a positive note: Greenway's INT was an excellent play! He really set McCoy up and it's good to see the Vikings starting defense creating some turnovers this preseason.

[jackal]

Man I have not watched the whole game but i agree Zach Line has great instincts and
two games now he scored for us. Carlson is getting paid a ton and plays like poo poo.

line needs to take his spot

Kalil looks so different i wonder what is going on with him..

Did we change our OL blocking schemes and stunts or something this season?

Something just seems to be off with our OL this preseason..

They did nothing we AP at all today a couple of sit down blocks in pass protection

[Angels Wings]

Gonna be a long and painful season...

That may not necessarily be a bad thing...

[Mothman]

That may not necessarily be a bad thing...

It would probably have to be very long and painful to land him.

[Hunter Morrow]

Ponder, 17 and 23, barely 100 yards, 2 turnovers. With much of that play against second and third string guys with his second touchdown deep in the third quarter.

Loadholt got eaten alive by speed rushers. Again. Kalil played like a dope and nearly singlehandedly wrecked a TD drive with I believe 3 penalties for 40 yards.

Our special teams defense coughed up a 105 yarder. Yuck.

Josh Robinson got clowned by Kaepernick.

Williams got hurt.

Cassel looked wretched. No Second String Savior delusions, I guess.

Rough game.

[Ohjay]

That may not necessarily be a bad thing...

But if we are able to pick up that beast it means we will [most likely] need a new QB... What would Spielman take with our 1st round pick?



As far as the game last night... Don't really know what to say.
Kalil isn't looking nearly as good as last year, hopefully it's just him being a bit unfocused in preseason and something he shakes off quickly once the season starts.
I liked that Ponder stepped up into the pocket a lot more, but he still needs to perform better!
Hopefully Mauti and Line makes some great plays in the final preseason game to secure their spots on our team, I feel like they deserve it, they show quite a bit of potential.
Can't believe Cook is still on our squad...

Overall I think our performance was way better than against the Bills, but it was still quite atrocious. Hopefully we'll see a lot of improvement when Musgrave can use the entire playbook, but my expectations of this season has been lowered, a lot!

[Hunter Morrow]

If you didn't know anything about Kalil last year, if you didn't know he was a Pro Bowler lineman who blocked for like 2400 yards of rushing, you'd think he was awful, right? If all you had was these preseason games you'd think he was awful. What in the blue hell happened to him? How much of it is our line and how much of it is AD making everybody look like a genius?

[mansquatch]

Josh Robinson was the big concern for me. He got picked on a lot yesterday. That neesd to get tightened up right away.

The OL is showing regression and that is not a good sign. I wonder how much of it is not having #28 in and how much of it is something we should worry about. Guards still stink.

Ponder wasn't glorious or anything yesterday, but I wasn't unhappy with him. The pick was all on Burton and the fumble was all on the bad protection. Those are not turnovers he can do much to control. THe good news is I don't think we'll be seeing a ton of quick slants to Steven Burton in the regular season. The strip sack is another story.

Awesome pick by Greenway.

[soflavike]

Man I have not watched the whole game but i agree Zach Line has great instincts and
two games now he scored for us. Carlson is getting paid a ton and plays like poo poo.

line needs to take his spot

Kalil looks so different i wonder what is going on with him..

Did we change our OL blocking schemes and stunts or something this season?

Something just seems to be off with our OL this preseason..

They did nothing we AP at all today a couple of sit down blocks in pass protection

Trade Carlson to Miami... they need a pass-catching TE badly now that Keller is hurt. Let's get a decent pick for the guy.