Vikings @ Bills Game Day Discussion Thread -- Preseaon #2

[Funkytown]

Thanks!

This first sentence y'all have been bragging about:

Perhaps not but their approach can also get key players banged up, expose significant elements of the playbook on film and potentially hurt their chances to win when games count.

So, then why don't we see second and third-string players RIGHT after any team clinches their playoff berth (especially if home-field is already decided)? Shouldn't there sometimes be 2-3 weeks of preseason-like football at the end of the year with those really, really good teams? We usually don't see it, though. Not much more than a game--even if that anymore. Does it maybe--just MAYBE--have something to do with consistency, chemistry, and confidence? And maybe--just maybe--the TRUE big dogs of the NFL aren't worried about "being figured out and exposed." If you're good, you're good. Kind of like AP, didn't everyone know he was going to run? Didn't he still have one of the best seasons in NFL history? Man, can you imagine if we would have kept AP a secret in the preseason?!?! We would have been Super Bowl champs. lol. I'm just making fun at this point. I get what you guys are saying; I'm just saying there is another side to this. I can see both sides of it, but I lean more towards playing like you mean it.

As far as the "banged up" comment. Watch the first part of the that game again and let me know if you feel playing that way was the best way not to get banged up, especially concerning Ponder. Try telling me that with a straight face too while you're at it.

[The Breeze]

So, then why don't we see second and third-string players RIGHT after any team clinches their playoff berth (especially if home-field is already decided)? Shouldn't there sometimes be 2-3 weeks of preseason-like football at the end of the year with those really, really good teams? We usually don't see it, though. Not much more than a game--even if that anymore. Does it maybe--just MAYBE--have something to do with consistency, chemistry, and confidence? .

You certainly don't want to let your starters get rusty and lose their grove by benching them....but that groove is far more important going into the playoffs than it is in the 1st qtr of the season. The NY Giants are a great example of that over the past 6 years as are the Landry coached Cowboys. It often took them until 3-4 for weeks before the playoffs to really get it going. Obviously those teams don't have home field type records...but i'm just speaking to the difference between having it rolling going into the postseason versus midseason or shutting it down to rest 3 weeks out.

It also has to do with putting other teams out of the playoffs. You might have a chance to knock division opponents or other tough teams out of the postseason by beating the teams that remain on your schedule as opposed to just resting guys and allowing a hot team sneak into the playoffs.

[Eli]

So, then why don't we see second and third-string players RIGHT after any team clinches their playoff berth (especially if home-field is already decided)? Shouldn't there sometimes be 2-3 weeks of preseason-like football at the end of the year with those really, really good teams? We usually don't see it, though. Not much more than a game--even if that anymore.

The biggest reason is that they're also playing for home field advantage through the playoffs. Even teams that clinch a playoff berth very early seldom have home field guaranteed until after week 16 or 17.

[Funkytown]

The players are not worried about winning the games. The guys who are on the team are concerned about learning more and staying healthy.

So, letting Ponder get mauled was somehow related to the coaches and starters being concerned about staying healthy and learning?

[Funkytown]

You certainly don't want to let your starters get rusty and lose their grove by benching them....but that groove is far more important going into the playoffs than it is in the 1st qtr of the season.

So, sustaining a groove is far more important than establishing a groove? Can one sustain a groove without first establishing it?

Why is it unreasonable for fans to want to see some sort of groove as early as the preseason? We are asking too much to see a quarter's worth?

[Funkytown]

The biggest reason is that they're also playing for home field advantage through the playoffs. Even teams that clinch a playoff berth very early seldom have home field guaranteed until after week 16 or 17.

I know that, but sometimes it DOES happen with 2-3 weeks left. It just depends on the year.

Bottom line: It's hard to be in complete favor of the "stay healthy" vs. the chemistry/consistency/confidence.

Main Point:

I see both sides of it. I just don't like seeing so many excuses for our play the other night, especially when people are preaching about staying healthy and our starting QB was getting KILLED out there. Seems like contradictions to me.

[The Breeze]

So, letting Ponder get mauled was somehow related to the coaches and starters being concerned about staying healthy and learning?

I don't think anyone was letting him get mauled....
I think they may have intended to play him longer but it wasn't a good situation considering the way this unit deals with blitzes. He needs reps but it was high risk the way the Bills were coming after him. I dunno...just speculating.

Kind of a perfect storm of sorts, Ponder really needs to develop that part of his game and so do the Backs and Line...but doing it in a game that doesn't count is not a comfortable place for them to risk it. As a few others have said, it's just uncommon for a team to play that kind of defense in a preseason game.
Oddly enough it was the Bills QB who went down in the second half.

[Mothman]

See? You only listen to the ugly; you don't even have to see it. And when you do see it, you're already prepared. You have serious advantages from an emotional standpoint. Lucky.

It's not always that way. I watch as many games as I can live during the season and I usually go the game here in Chicago so I get my share of aggravation. I don't get emotionally involved in preseason games anymore anyway. I used to but now injuries are just about the only thing that can upset me during preseason football. I'm more inclined to laugh at other miscues at this time of year. In week 1, it will be different!

[Funkytown]

It also has to do with putting other teams out of the playoffs. You might have a chance to knock division opponents or other tough teams out of the postseason by beating the teams that remain on your schedule as opposed to just resting guys and allowing a hot team sneak into the playoffs.

But, that might result in some key injuries. Why risk it if you're already in the post-season? The main focus should be on staying healthy, not worrying about what other teams are doing!

I'm just having fun at this point. I'm all for staying healthy, and I'm glad we did (aside from Wright). What I'm saying is: We got lucky with Ponder escaping injury. All this "let's be vanilla" in the preseason talk is all fine and dandy, but if we see this same sort of thing against the Niners, Ponder is going to be on the ground a lot again. Our offense needs to figure it out, move the ball, and keep Ponder upright. Is that asking too much? I don't think so. In part, my point is: Playing better on offense WOULD increase the chance of staying healthy, especially concerning Ponder.

[Mothman]

This first sentence y'all have been bragging about:

First of all: who's bragging? I said thank you for a compliment and it would be tough for TexasVike to brag about something he didn't write.

So, then why don't we see second and third-string players RIGHT after any team clinches their playoff berth (especially if home-field is already decided)? Shouldn't there sometimes be 2-3 weeks of preseason-like football at the end of the year with those really, really good teams? We usually don't see it, though. Not much more than a game--even if that anymore. Does it maybe--just MAYBE--have something to do with consistency, chemistry, and confidence? And maybe--just maybe--the TRUE big dogs of the NFL aren't worried about "being figured out and exposed."

... and the 21st century Buffalo Bills are one of "the TRUE big dogs of the NFL"?

As far as the "banged up" comment. Watch the first part of the that game again and let me know if you feel playing that way was the best way not to get banged up, especially concerning Ponder. Try telling me that with a straight face too while you're at it.

Why do you think they limit playing time for starters in the preseason, Melanie?

[Funkytown]

First of all: who's bragging? I said thank you for a compliment and it would be tough for TexasVike to brag about something he didn't write.

It's sarcasm. Example: "Let's see this restaurant you've been bragging about." It mostly means, "talking about" not necessarily bragging. Lighten up, Sparky.

... and the 21st century Buffalo Bills are one of "the TRUE big dogs of the NFL"?

Nice try. I meant true big dogs of the NFL aren't worried about other teams seeing one good quarter of their game planning from the preseason as if it's going to derail their whole season. Geez Louise. The heck? That's bogus. Pretty darn lame too, I might add.

Are Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and Brees driving their offenses down to score points even in the preseason? Or are they keeping their stuff a secret too and playing it safe? Maybe they're good enough to keep their offense moving with their "vanilla" play? Maybe? I'll have to look into that. Last I knew, Brady was one of the best in the game...and he was a little gimpy the other day and he STILL went out there and did some good stuff come game day. But, we're wrong for expecting more from our healthy, unproven group. Darn it.

Why do you think they limit playing time for starters in the preseason, Melanie?

See earlier posts.

[Mothman]

It's sarcasm. Example: "Let's see this restaurant you've been bragging about." It mostly means, "talking about" not necessarily bragging. Lighten up, Sparky.

No need... I wasn't upset in the first place.

Nice try. I meant true big dogs of the NFL aren't worried about other teams seeing one good quarter of their game planning from the preseason as if it's going to derail their whole season. Geez Louise. The heck? That's bogus.

They're not? Tell me, which of those "true big dogs" is opening up their playbook and treating preseason games like regular season games? Do you think the Patriots are going deep into their playbook in the preseason?

I know you're an enthusiastic fan and you care about the team and the games but there's nothing bogus about what we're saying. Running "vanilla" plays, limiting time for starters and all this other stuff we're talking about has been standard operating procedure in preseason football for decades. It's not excuse-making. It's the simple reality of the situation. It may seem silly but most teams don't want to tip their hand on film in the preseason and help out regular season opponents so they keep things simple and basic.

[Funkytown]

They're not? Tell me, which of those "true big dogs" is opening up their playbook and treating preseason games like regular season games? Do you think the Patriots are going deep into their playbook in the preseason?

I know you're an enthusiastic fan and you care about the team and the games but there's nothing bogus about what we're saying. Running "vanilla" plays, limiting time for starters and all this other stuff we're talking about has been standard operating procedure in preseason football for decades. It's not excuse-making. It's the simple reality of the situation. It may seem silly but most teams don't want to tip their hand on film in the preseason and help out regular season opponents so they keep things simple and basic.

You're missing the point. My point is: Playing like a bunch of sissy girls (That's right, I said it!) in the name of being secretive and staying healthy doesn't work IF YOUR STARTING QB IS GETTING MAULED TO DEATH!!! Don't you think actually playing a little ball and executing would be good for the "consistency, chemistry, and confidence" of this football team, AS WELL AS keeping Ponder healthy by moving the ball and actually keeping him upright?!

Don't you get it? Doing my thing would contribute to doing your thing.

[Raptorman]

It's sarcasm. Example: "Let's see this restaurant you've been bragging about." It mostly means, "talking about" not necessarily bragging. Lighten up, Sparky.


Nice try. I meant true big dogs of the NFL aren't worried about other teams seeing one good quarter of their game planning from the preseason as if it's going to derail their whole season. Geez Louise. The heck? That's bogus. Pretty darn lame too, I might add.

Are Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and Brees driving their offenses down to score points even in the preseason? Or are they keeping their stuff a secret too and playing it safe? Maybe they're good enough to keep their offense moving with their "vanilla" play? Maybe? I'll have to look into that. Last I knew, Brady was one of the best in the game...and he was a little gimpy the other day and he STILL went out there and did some good stuff come game day. But, we're wrong for expecting more from our healthy, unproven group. Darn it.
See earlier posts.

Between Brady, Rodgers, Bree's and Manning, they have thrown a total of 85 passes. About 21 each over two games. And not to mention, 48 years of experience between them. I would expect them to be pretty much set at this time of year. And yes, they have been pretty vanilla. You want to compare Ponder in pre-season, why don't you do it with the guys drafted around him, like Gabbert, and Locker, Mallett and Dalton. You know, all the guys everyone wanted to draft other than Ponder.

[Mothman]

You're missing the point. My point is: Playing like a bunch of sissy girls (That's right, I said it!) in the name of being secretive and staying healthy doesn't work IF YOUR STARTING QB IS GETTING MAULED TO DEATH!!! Don't you think actually playing a little ball and executing would be good for the "consistency, chemistry, and confidence" of this football team, AS WELL AS keeping Ponder healthy by moving the ball and actually keeping him upright?!

Yes but you're talking about two different things, playcalling and execution.