Vikings @ Bills Game Day Discussion Thread -- Preseaon #2

[mondry]

It's a preseason game, there is no adjustments to be made; that's pointless as it just puts free film out for week 1. It was a vanilla offense made to do some quick reads, take a few hits to get used to playing football again, and maybe a good drive. The fact that the Bills took this game seriously and ran a full-fledged defense is the reason we looked so bad. I hate Musgrave way more then most, but you really shouldn't expect changes to be made.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more it looks like we were using the preseason for what it is, a basic warm up and trying out some things you liked in camp but want to see how they do in a regular game. Mean while the Bills were being try hards to win a meaningless pre-season game and putting out good film for what they're going to do in the regular season. I see them a LOT like the 2008 Lions who went 4-0 in preseason trying hard in those games only to go 0-16. They did it against the Colts last week too and put up 40 points, big freaking deal and now EJ Manual needs his knee scoped and will miss pre-season!

[PurpleKoolaid]

Ponder is a lot faster and stronger as a runner than most defenders and observers realize. Actually, I wish the Vikings would roll him out a lot more, where he seems to be more accurate, and also give him more opportunities to make plays with his feet.

Im not sure if you are kidding or really serious. I have seen Ponder's happy feet moving way too much the past few years, and I know how inaccurate he is. He would rollout right into the arms of a blitzter. He needs to learn to side step the pressure, and accurately throw the ball.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more it looks like we were using the preseason for what it is, a basic warm up and trying out some things you liked in camp but want to see how they do in a regular game. Mean while the Bills were being try hards to win a meaningless pre-season game and putting out good film for what they're going to do in the regular season. I see them a LOT like the 2008 Lions who went 4-0 in preseason trying hard in those games only to go 0-16. They did it against the Colts last week too and put up 40 points, big freaking deal and now EJ Manual needs his knee scoped and will miss pre-season!

Big deal. you just said preseason is worthless anyway. Manual needs the practice a lot less then Ponder does too.

[mondry]

Big deal. you just said preseason is worthless anyway. Manual needs the practice a lot less then Ponder does too.

Oh did I? Hmm, that's strange cause I just re-read my whole post and can't seem to find worthless in there. If English is your second language than I apologize but you should try to learn the difference between words like "meaning less" in the context of winning the game, compared to worthless, as in not worth playing at all. Normally I would just let it slide but this is like the 5th time I've seen it go right over your head and you start spewing "why even play the game!" so figured I'd try to help.

[mondry]

Heres Paul Allen's take http://www.kfan.com/pages/psn_paulallen ... e=11580491

Boy, after the road loss to the Buffalo Bills tonite Rubes were getting after it and predictably most of it was of the negative-#### ilk. Over-the-top stuff, too. Surprised I didn't see some fans threatening to pull their tickets for the 2013 season.

I watched the game, saw plenty I didn't like and still have no change to the 11-and-5 into-the-season call. It's the preseason and if stuff is going to go amiss let it happen now. That Buffalo blitz was unpredictable, exotic and, yeah, caught us offguard. Not much game planning goes into these games, and the Bills' D brought it and delivered the aggressive goods all game. Shoot, even BALTAZAR had to take a hit on a CB blitz late in the game while delivering a cold-blooded connection.

[Funkytown]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more it looks like we were using the preseason for what it is, a basic warm up and trying out some things you liked in camp but want to see how they do in a regular game. Mean while the Bills were being try hards to win a meaningless pre-season game and putting out good film for what they're going to do in the regular season. I see them a LOT like the 2008 Lions who went 4-0 in preseason trying hard in those games only to go 0-16. They did it against the Colts last week too and put up 40 points, big freaking deal and now EJ Manual needs his knee scoped and will miss pre-season!

I get what you're saying here, but it almost comes off as: "We looked so bad because of those darn Bills. They were just trying too hard and taking it all way too seriously--and we weren't." Sounds like excuses to me. Or maybe some kind of justification.

I don't think the Bills were wrong at all for playing the way they did. You. play. to. win. the. game.

There's nothing wrong with any team playing hard in the preseason in preparation for the regular season--not to mention it builds chemistry and confidence. Quite frankly, those are things we desperately need. Too bad we didn't take the game as seriously as the Bills did. Maybe we would have seen the team play much, much better.

[Mothman]

I get what you're saying here, but it almost comes off as: "We looked so bad because of those darn Bills. They were just trying too hard and taking it all way too seriously--and we weren't.

I don't think the Bills were wrong at all for playing the way they did. You. play. to. win. the. game.

Perhaps not but their approach can also get key players banged up, expose significant elements of the playbook on film and potentially hurt their chances to win when games count. There's nothing wrong with trying to win. A team should always try to win but in the preseason, it's usually not the #1 goal. The primary purpose of these games is to evaluate young players and help determine the 53 man roster. Getting starters reps and winning are typically secondary considerations for most teams. Sometimes, when a new coach takes over a team, he'll place more of a premium on winning in the preseason because he wants to establish a new attitude but even that isn't always the case.

There's nothing wrong with any team playing hard in the preseason in preparation for the regular season--not to mention it builds chemistry and confidence. Quite frankly, that's something we desperately need. Too bad we didn't take the game as seriously as the Bills did. Maybe we would have seen the team play much, much better.

Maybe and if they had, some fans might have felt good about it but these games are still meaningless and rarely indicative of how a team will play over the course of the regular season so honestly, I have a hard time caring.

I haven't seen the second half yet but I didn't see a lack of effort from the Vikes in the first half and since they came back and gave themselves a chance to win in the second half, I'm assuming the Vikes players on the field were trying. What I saw in the first half were mistakes in execution but even then, while there were too many errors, I didn't come away feeling anywhere near as bad about their performance as some of the comments in this thread led me to expect. The bad snaps and poor pass blocking were big issues and I suspect pass blocking will be an issue during the season too because it was last year. That's a problem I doubt they'll solve without another injection of talent but hopefully, they can improve upon it.

[Texas Vike]

Perhaps not but their approach can also get key players banged up, expose significant elements of the playbook on film and potentially hurt their chances to win when games count. There's nothing wrong with trying to win. A team should always try to win but in the preseason, it's usually not the #1 goal. The primary purpose of these games is to evaluate young players and help determine the 53 man roster. Getting starters reps and winning are typically secondary considerations for most teams. Sometimes, when a new coach takes over a team, he'll place more of a premium on winning in the preseason because he wants to establish a new attitude but even that isn't always the case.
Maybe and if they had, some fans might have felt good about it but these games are still meaningless and rarely indicative of how a team will play over the course of the regular season so honestly, I have a hard time caring.

I haven't seen the second half yet but I didn't see a lack of effort from the Vikes in the first half and since they came back and gave themselves a chance to win in the second half, I'm assuming the Vikes players on the field were trying. What I saw in the first half were mistakes in execution but even then, while there were too many errors, I didn't come away feeling anywhere near as bad about their performance as some of the comments in this thread led me to expect. The bad snaps and poor pass blocking were big issues and I suspect pass blocking will be an issue during the season too because it was last year. That's a problem I doubt they'll solve without another injection of talent but hopefully, they can improve upon it.

Good post, JIm. Especially the first sentence. It should be required reading for posters here!

[mondry]

I get what you're saying here, but it almost comes off as: "We looked so bad because of those darn Bills. They were just trying too hard and taking it all way too seriously--and we weren't.

Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades! I think both teams had good energy and made good effort, both teams took the game seriously as in it's an NFL preseason football game with many many jobs on the line and players to be analyzed.

I don't think the Bills were wrong at all for playing the way they did. You. play. to. win. the. game.

I will just have to disagree with that, I don't think many coaches play to win the game in preseason. Otherwise we'd see the starters for 4 quarters and extra points when it'd tie the game late in the 4th quarter. Instead a team would rather lose than go into over time because it just doesn't matter. First and foremost coaches want to analyze players in certain situations. I know we can kick an extra point or punt the ball, but what about a 2pt conversion, or going for it on 4th down? Those are situations you don't get to test that often in the regular season but it's fine in preseason.

There's nothing wrong with any team playing hard in the preseason in preparation for the regular season--not to mention it builds chemistry and confidence. Quite frankly, that's something we desperately need. Too bad we didn't take the game as seriously as the Bills did. Maybe we would have seen the team play much, much better.

Players playing hard is fine, again I don't think we DIDN'T play hard but it's not worth exposing your offense or defensive game plan just to do well in a preseason game. You know who they play week 1? New England! And if you don't think Belechik is looking at this preseason film and breaking down their exotic blitz packages you're crazy!

What if I told you, it benefits US more facing what the bills did than it does the bills? You don't learn much from a win, from your plan working from the get go. They'll pat themselves on the back for a job well done, but we'll hit the film room looking at what we did wrong, what we can do about it, and how to fix it. In that sense they did us a favor. We know exactly what to work on now.

[Funkytown]

I didn't come away feeling anywhere near as bad about their performance as some of the comments in this thread led me to expect.

Don't you think you have an advantage there as far as watching the games later and already being mentally prepared? I assure you, watching it live is much more frustrating than watching it later when you already know the results and have read dozens and dozens of thoughts about the game. You already went in with low expectations--in addition to being level-headed and positive--so of COURSE you are okay with how things are looking. You have advantages all the way around. Watching it live--with much higher expectations and more passion--is a lot tougher when things aren't going your way. I don't put a whole lot of stock in preseason either, but I still had higher expectations than what I'm seeing, especially concerning our offense. That's where the slight irritation is coming from. I have two choices: expect improvement or lower my expectations. I pick improvement.

[Funkytown]

I will just have to disagree with that, I don't think many coaches play to win the game in preseason. Otherwise we'd see the starters for 4 quarters and extra points when it'd tie the game late in the 4th quarter.

Clearly I meant that they are always trying to score points and ultimately win with the players on the field (yes, even the Vikings starting offense). I didn't mean anything about playing starters the whole time just to win. That's foolish. I just meant continually playing hard and trying to win is the way to go. I like that much better than the logic behind, "Oh man, we better not show a quarter's worth of our amazing, secretive game plan in the preseason! That'll surely cost us wins in the regular season." I think the benefit of getting in sync, as well as building confidence and chemistry, balances out that big ol' scary idea of being "figured out."

What if I told you, it benefits US more facing what the bills did than it does the bills? You don't learn much from a win, from your plan working from the get go. They'll pat themselves on the back for a job well done, but we'll hit the film room looking at what we did wrong, what we can do about it, and how to fix it. In that sense they did us a favor. We know exactly what to work on now.

So, why haven't the Lions won a Super Bowl lately? They should have all of the answers.

[The Breeze]

I said it last week and I'll say it this week:

Preseason games are not played for the fans. Not one little bit. The NFL airs them and the owners charge money to see them, but the whole point of them even existing is for the coaches to evaluate their players in their systems. How this is done is completely at the coaches discretion based on many different things unique to each team and it's roster. This should be common sense to any football fan old enough to log on by themselves IMO.

It's entirely possible that the Bills coaching staff believes that creating an atmosphere of winning games, period, regardless of whether or not they count, is important for the team they have. It's been a long long time since the Bills have won 10 games in a season. Now, the AFC east teams have tape on some of the Bills "exotic blitz packages". Right or wrong good or bad, it is what it is.

The Vikes have to continue to work at all phases of covering blitzes(among other things).....not a big surprise there.

I'm amazed at how emptionally vested so many are over preseason results and expectations. The players are not worried about winning the games. The guys who are on the team are concerned about learning more and staying healthy. The guys who aren't locks for the team, are primarily concerned about making the team.

Once the actual team has been established the focus will resolve 110% toward winning games. Then we can all wet our pants accordingly.

Please, feel free to disagree.....

10 minutes til Wopner~

[Mothman]

Don't you think you have an advantage there as far as watching the games later and already being mentally prepared?

Sure, it makes a difference when you know what's coming.

I assure you, watching it live is much more frustrating than watching it later when you already know the results and have read dozens and dozens of thoughts about the game.

I listened to it live so I experienced the game as it happened and believe me, after decades of watching Vikings football, I know ALL about the degree of frustration you can have when watching a game live.

[Mothman]

Good post, JIm. Especially the first sentence. It should be required reading for posters here!

Thanks!

[Funkytown]

Sure, it makes a difference when you know what's coming.
I listened to it live so I experienced the game as it happened and believe me, after decades of watching Vikings football, I know ALL about the degree of frustration you can have when watching a game live.

See? You only listen to the ugly; you don't even have to see it. And when you do see it, you're already prepared. You have serious advantages from an emotional standpoint. Lucky.