Vikings Final Four Wins analysis (Ponder)

[The Breeze]

I am currently right in the middle. A lame little town called Richfield.

Alright....I know where Richfield is, lotsa hayfields if my memory serves. Looks like Utah is well represented at VMB~

[Demi]

I'm hearing mixed reviews, but it's mainly coming from haters or incurable optimists. Those that are level-headed about it tend to say it was a mix of no help from teammates and Ponder being "Ponder."

I won't be able to check the game out until it comes on replay on NFLN, but I'm no worried either way at this point.

It was a combination...of Ponder being inaccurate, the line not doing a very good job blocking, and the receivers struggling. There were still a few opportunities where everyone did their job...except Ponder. Who got protection, had an open receiver, and threw an inaccurate pass. A number of times...

[Reignman]

Getting back to Delaqure's post, I am one of the Ponder detractors. I don't expect him to do well. I don't say that there's no chance he'll be good, but I do think it unlikely. I'm not going to call him names or hate him or anything for it, and I hope that he indeed does great things and becomes the franchise player we've all longed for. Should it happen, you won't get to see me eat crow, as I still won't see myself as having been wrong, only my belief. And even then it would only be true that with the addition of new evidence my old belief would no longer supported by the entirety of what I've seen. None of which would have anything to do with me being wrong. On the flip side, if he does as I expect you won't have to hear me say I told you so either.

That pretty much sums up where I stand on the whole Ponder thing. Based on the current evidence I don't think he's the answer. That's it! I'm not rooting for him to fail. I just think he's a backup that we're trying to force into the franchise role. Meanwhile we're wasting AD's prime on his on going "development". By year 6 of the project, when he's finally bloomed into the mediocre game managing QB some on this board have longed for, my helping of crow will be too cold to eat.

That sounds like something you're projecting onto the comments. Nobody else seemed to read them that way and it definitely wasn't my intent to imply that those plays were extraordinary. I didn't use that word or a similar word like remarkable to describe them and they obviously weren't extraordinary plays in the first place.

Of course I'm just projecting because while trying to defend him you only meant to pull the mundane plays from the deep recesses of your Ponder memories. You're saving his greater body of work for a later defense?

Meanwhile, it's Ponder's job and I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do this season.

I'm just going to go ahead and project again, since I seem to be pretty good at it xD. I think what you're saying is, "I'm good with whatever scrub they throw back there to lead my championshipless team".

Well, maybe nomenclature is the problem here. If by "apologizing", you meant "explaining", then yes. I was further expounding on his explanation. I'll remember that "apology" and "explanation" are interchangeable going forward.

Nah, nomenclature is not the problem here, it's more like a misunderstanding. By "apology", I mean "defense". I prefer the word "apologist" in this context because the defense of Ponder is cult like.

On a more serious note, I don't know that Ponder has what it takes to be our QB. I'm hoping he shows me something this year to lead me to believe this isn't Jackson Part II. But given that he has shown incremental improvement, we had no real good options this year for a replacement anyway, and he has performed well in situations where the game hung in the balance, I'm inclined to let the year play out before I pass ultimate judgment. Obviously, YMMV...

And on that note let me just say, "whewww" lol. Seriously, good to know you're more realistic about it than some others. I know he has performed well in some situations, but lets be honest, performing well every once in awhile isn't going to cut it. We're trying to win titles, not just keep the scores close.

A) With a west coast, run-first offense with the NFL MVP/first ballot Hall of Fame at running back and a top-5 run-blocking offensive line it makes sense to continue to play this style, no matter who is at QB, especially if your running game is clearly the team's strength and the way this offense is constructed, to the tune of an average of > 6 yards/carry.

You're right, I perceive things differently lol. The west coast and run-first offenses are contradictions. The WCO uses short quick passes in place of a running game. It's also important to have a back who can catch the ball out of the back field. It's also important to have a quick reading, decisive, accurate QB who can hit moving targets. Yep, sounds like our offense xD. Either we're running the wrong scheme, have the wrong pieces for the scheme, or Frazier really doesn't know what the hell kind of offense he's trying to run.

B) By not having a pass-first, vertical-style offense this is a reflection of a coaching staff hiding or coddling the QB.

Whoa, careful now, this is the kind of stuff that gets you accused of projecting around here. Where are options C) and D) because I don't see myself in either A) or B)?

I'll ask this: does it not make sense to continue to judge Ponder within the confines of the offense as opposed to a hypothetical, pass-first offense in which he may not be able to succeed?

The last part of your question concerns me the most. The part where you basically say you're not all concerned about finding out what he can do. I mean why wouldn't you want to find out what your QB is capable of doing? And hypothetically lets say he's not very good in a pass-first offense. Do you really want this guy running your offense at all? If you're not good in a pass-first offense, chances are you're not a very good passer at all.

And as long as we're playing hypothetical, what offense do you suppose we'd run if we had Brady and AD? Would we still be run-first?

...and that is why the epic Battle of Ponder continues.

Exactly! The fact that the fan base is still divided over this topic should be a big concern.

Forum Divas.....who woulda thunk?

Got it, anyone who has a differing opinion from yours is either a forum diva or irrational. Sounds rational and we can't argue with that.

It's like trying to convince Rainman that everything will be OK if he misses Wopner, or of the quality of K-Mart.

that's some funny stuff right there. FeBreze you freshen up this message board like no other. More sense of humor and less uptight.

A lot of the criticism really seems to boil down to the offensive style the Vikes are playing vs. the offensive style fans want to see.

Now there you went and over simplified it. And BTW I'm starting to not like the lack of multiple choice options we get from people on this board xD. But if this is the offense we're stuck with because we have a QB like Ponder, then yeah, I want to see something else. I'm also not to happy with the "let em catch it and try to make a tackle" defense either. It's like watching prevent defense the entire game.

It's the same criticism I have and I feel it's completely correctable based on the line play, receivers and him all being on the same page. Also, they need to all get better at dealing with blitzes....all of them, runningbacks too~

I can't deny that that hasn't been a huge problem (see I don't blame everything on Ponder like some want to believe xD), but it makes me ask, how do you feel Frazier has handled the first team in preseason? Given the fact that none of them are on the same page, but have seen little time in preseason.

Based on what his QB coach has said, it may be that Ponder actually went through his progressions too fast at times, rather than not going through them at all.

We gotta nominate this for some sort of comedy award.