The Christian Ponder Thread

[Ohjay]

I can't tell how many times I've heard the arguments about Ponders 5 yard passes, weak arm et al.

But almost no one talks about Musgrave. How much control of Ponder did he have? Did Musgrave limit Ponders options, were the plays constructed in such a way that Ponder couldn't throw a 60 yard pass 10 times a game?
People love to rip on Ponder but no one discusses the play-calling and how that might have affected Ponders stat-line.
Oh and don't get me started on stats, many seem to think they are the be all end all, but for a young player that's still learning I believe it's a lot more important to see how he performs on the field. Movement, poise, etc... just my two cents.

I don't believe Ponder is God's gift to football, heck he might only be a mediocre QB at best. But he has potential, we've seen glimpses of it these past two seasons. I expect him to be a lot more consistent this year, but I don't expect him to throw for 4000 yards and 30+ TDs despite the weapons added this year. As long as he shows better consistency I have high hopes for him in the coming seasons as he bonds further with our WRs, TEs(and the rest of the team).

Can't wait to see some clips from training camp and see how he performs in the preseason games.

[Demi]

Oh and don't get me started on stats, many seem to think they are the be all end all, but for a young player that's still learning I believe it's a lot more important to see how he performs on the field. Movement, poise, etc... just my two cents.

His movement, poise, etc while he's on the field are even more depressing than his stats.

And part of the reason his stats are what they are...

[King James]

I can't tell how many times I've heard the arguments about Ponders 5 yard passes, weak arm et al.

But almost no one talks about Musgrave. How much control of Ponder did he have? Did Musgrave limit Ponders options, were the plays constructed in such a way that Ponder couldn't throw a 60 yard pass 10 times a game?
People love to rip on Ponder but no one discusses the play-calling and how that might have affected Ponders stat-line.
Oh and don't get me started on stats, many seem to think they are the be all end all, but for a young player that's still learning I believe it's a lot more important to see how he performs on the field. Movement, poise, etc... just my two cents.

I don't believe Ponder is God's gift to football, heck he might only be a mediocre QB at best. But he has potential, we've seen glimpses of it these past two seasons. I expect him to be a lot more consistent this year, but I don't expect him to throw for 4000 yards and 30+ TDs despite the weapons added this year. As long as he shows better consistency I have high hopes for him in the coming seasons as he bonds further with our WRs, TEs(and the rest of the team).

Can't wait to see some clips from training camp and see how he performs in the preseason games.

This is actually what ive been saying!!!!!!!!! If people knew Musgrave they know that he prefers short accurate passes over deep passes. I don't think Ponder is at the level yet where he can call an audible because I think he will have to gain trust from the coaches. Im not putting all the blame on Musgrave because Ponder does need to show better consistency but Musgrave isn't helping him much with the short dink and dunk play calls

[mosscarter]

musgrave and ponder are both horrible, how is musgrave still even our offensive coordinator is what i'd like to know.

[Ohjay]

This is actually what ive been saying!!!!!!!!! If people knew Musgrave they know that he prefers short accurate passes over deep passes. I don't think Ponder is at the level yet where he can call an audible because I think he will have to gain trust from the coaches. Im not putting all the blame on Musgrave because Ponder does need to show better consistency but Musgrave isn't helping him much with the short dink and dunk play calls

Couldn't agree more. How can Ponder improve his skills at the deep pass if he isn't allowed to try it in live games, practice all you want but it won't be the same as staring at a Packers D-line and knowing that Clay Matthews is locked in on you...
Hopefully there is a change this year, both in the consistency of Ponder and the play-calling of Musgrave

musgrave and ponder are both horrible, how is musgrave still even our offensive coordinator is what i'd like to know.

Because Musgrave still make up great game plans(at times). The game against the 49ers last year is evidence of that(and some of the other tough games as well).
I was calling for Musgraves head after the first two games last season, but slowly changed my mind as the season progressed.
But on that note, I'm not sure Musgrave is a positive thing when it comes to the growth of Ponder...

[Purple bruise]

It seems strange how the cynics take shots at almost every aspect of the team and yet never seem to tire of it

[Mothman]

Couldn't agree more. How can Ponder improve his skills at the deep pass if he isn't allowed to try it in live games, practice all you want but it won't be the same as staring at a Packers D-line and knowing that Clay Matthews is locked in on you...
Hopefully there is a change this year, both in the consistency of Ponder and the play-calling of Musgrave

Ponder actually does call audibles and he was given chances to throw deep last year. The problem (from Musgrave's point of view) is that with the personnel the Vikings had, throwing deep was a very low percentage option most of the time. It became a bit better when Wright started playing but their intended deep threat (Simpson) stunk it up all year, their o-line wasn't great in pass protection on those slower-developing plays, none of the other receivers were particularly good deep threats and usually struggled to get open and create separation and throwing those deep routes clearly wasn't Ponder's strong suit either. Whether that was due to all of the reasons listed above, his own inconsistent footwork or just a lack of chemistry between QB and receivers, there simply wasn't much to compel Musgrave to call a lot of throws deep down the field. He called them but they were usually wasted downs and the offense can only waste so many...

They should have better deep options in the passing game and hopefully the playcalling will reflect that.

Because Musgrave still make up great game plans(at times). The game against the 49ers last year is evidence of that(and some of the other tough games as well).
I was calling for Musgraves head after the first two games last season, but slowly changed my mind as the season progressed.
But on that note, I'm not sure Musgrave is a positive thing when it comes to the growth of Ponder...

It's tough to say. Musgrave knows a lot about the position and he's a smart offensive coordinator, though not always an instinctive playcaller.

I suspect Ponder is getting the coaching he needs to succeed. I think he just needs experience, better talent around him and more patience from a very, very impatient fanbase.

[losperros]

Ponder actually does call audibles and he was given chances to throw deep last year. The problem (from Musgrave's point of view) is that with the personnel the Vikings had, throwing deep was a very low percentage option most of the time. It became a bit better when Wright started playing but their intended deep threat (Simpson) stunk it up all year, their o-line wasn't great in pass protection on those slower-developing plays, none of the other receivers were particularly good deep threats and usually struggled to get open and create separation and throwing those deep routes clearly wasn't Ponder's strong suit either. Whether that was due to all of the reasons listed above, his own inconsistent footwork or just a lack of chemistry between QB and receivers, there simply wasn't much to compel Musgrave to call a lot of throws deep down the field. He called them but they were usually wasted downs and the offense can only waste so many...

They should have better deep options in the passing game and hopefully the playcalling will reflect that.

I'm at the point of simply admitted that I don't know what happened to the Vikings passing game last year. None of it was ever consistent. One has to wonder what a good passing game could have done for the Vikings overall record, given what kind of insane running game they had in AD. It would have been a "pick your poison" offense.

I really think that this year the Vikings will be fielding a much more versatile WR corps. They should have three or four (maybe even five) WRs that are skilled enough to catch the ball anywhere on the field. Seems to me that just has to help the team's offense execute a wider variety of plays.

[Mothman]

I'm at the point of simply admitted that I don't know what happened to the Vikings passing game last year. None of it was ever consistent.

See? You do know what happened to the Vikings passing game last year. You just wrote it: none of it was ever consistent.

Of course, why it was never consistent is the real question and I know that's really what you meant. I'm convinced it was just an unfortunate combination of factors that all added up to an often ineffective passing game. There were issues with talent, experience, technique, performance... you name it. It wasn't just about one player or coach.

I really think that this year the Vikings will be fielding a much more versatile WR corps. They should have three or four (maybe even five) WRs that are skilled enough to catch the ball anywhere on the field. Seems to me that just has to help the team's offense execute a wider variety of plays.

It should... I just hope it works out that way. Those receivers need to stay healthy. That would be a good place to start.

[mondry]

I really think that this year the Vikings will be fielding a much more versatile WR corps. They should have three or four (maybe even five) WRs that are skilled enough to catch the ball anywhere on the field. Seems to me that just has to help the team's offense execute a wider variety of plays.

Totally agree, then you add in Rudolph with Carlson looking good so far and Ellison going into year 2 should be able to contribute slightly more. The only thing I'm concerned about is not being able to get all our WR's enough action!

[Mothman]

Judd Zulgad writes about the media microscope Christian Ponder is under (while also trying to justify it):

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Zulg ... 072913?t=2

I think it's overkill but this is the state of things.

[smoothoperator]

both these qbs arent looking good. we could be in some trouble, cassel is garbage.

[dead_poet]

both these qbs arent looking good.

If you read practice reports from other teams, other QBs aren't faring much better. Both Brees and Rodgers had multiple-INT days. My concern will start in the preseason, not in camp.

[mansquatch]

Judd Zulgad writes about the media microscope Christian Ponder is under (while also trying to justify it):

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Zulg ... 072913?t=2

I think it's overkill but this is the state of things.

That article really shows how high of an opinion of itself the media has. The sentence that struck me was the one where Zulugad states that the team is upping the pressure on Ponder just like the media. So does that mean they put less pressure on him during the first two seasons? This just stinks of being more National Media Cult of the QB crap. It is his 3rd year, so yeah, it is "show me" time. But I highly doubt the coaches were not already watchign film on all of his throws. He is an NFL QB. Everyone in managment knows their jobs pretty much ride on him not sucking it up.

Also, the statements about his not winning the confidence. I get that his performance had holes in it, but these statements exist in vaccum. What about the other guys like the WR or the pass protection? Did injuries to key personnel (WR...) have an impact on his performance?

I guess I just do not see how nitpicking every single throw in training camp really adds any value? It makes me wonder how much of it is simple fact the sports media hasn't had football to really talk about for 5 months.

[Mothman]

If you read practice reports from other teams, other QBs aren't faring much better. Both Brees and Rodgers had multiple-INT days. My concern will start in the preseason, not in camp.

Zulgad almost, but didn't quite, acknowledge your point about other QBs when he wrote:

That skepticism is now following Ponder around Mankato on a daily basis. Dispatches being filed by various media outlets haven't painted a pretty picture of his play three days into practice.
On one hand, there is a temptation to laugh at this and say, "It's three practices in July. Why does anybody care?"
But the reality is that Ponder hasn't done enough in his two NFL seasons, and 20 starts, to get the benefit of the doubt for poor showings.

In other words, it doesn't mean anything if established QBs aren't at their sharpest early in camp but Zulgad and his fellow sportswriters have decided to act as if it does mean something when ponder isn't... that's a nice double standard.

The level of scrutiny at this point is a little crazy but the level of importance being placed on every unsuccessful throw in the first few days of training camp is downright laughable. OOOH, a pass was batted down during a blitz drill! Call Favre and coax him out of retirement!

That article really shows how high of an opinion of itself the media has. The sentence that struck me was the one where Zulugad states that the team is upping the pressure on Ponder just like the media. So does that mean they put less pressure on him during the first two seasons? This just stinks of being more National Media Cult of the QB crap. It is his 3rd year, so yeah, it is "show me" time. But I highly doubt the coaches were not already watchign film on all of his throws. He is an NFL QB. Everyone in managment knows their jobs pretty much ride on him not sucking it up.

Also, the statements about his not winning the confidence. I get that his performance had holes in it, but these statements exist in vaccum. What about the other guys like the WR or the pass protection? Did injuries to key personnel (WR...) have an impact on his performance?

I guess I just do not see how nitpicking every single throw in training camp really adds any value? It makes me wonder how much of it is simple fact the sports media hasn't had football to really talk about for 5 months.

Good post. I think you nailed it. These guys haven't had much to talk about and they know there's concern among fans about Ponder so they know fanning those flames will generate site hits, ratings etc. and they're milking it for all it's worth. In their minds, they probably believe they're just giving the people what they want (I've heard ESPN use that justification for their endless obsession for players like Favre, Tebow, etc. over and over again) but I just find it annoying.