Welcome to Minnesota Desmond Bishop!

[losperros]

I think the LB, WR, and the QB position are the key positions that have fans on edge. The whole LB position is a mess. Not only do we not know who our MLB will be but with the edition of Bishop, now we don't know who the Will LB will be also. When you think about Bishop and Henderson. You have a guy who coming off a terrible injury vs a guy who is an unproven Mike LB. And both of these guys are supposedly might start for us, I see why fans have doubt.

At the WR position, you have a guy in Patterson, who's known for not being familiar with the playbook and Jennings, the injury prone WR who's hasn't been able to finish a full season in about 2 years. Both guys have talent but Pattersons success will be how well he can gel with the offense. Jennings will have to prove he can stay healthy.

Then you have the QB situation... People talk about how bad Ponder is but if you look at Cassel's gametape from KC, he's not any better. So if Ponder stinks it up this year, I don't think Cassel will do much better. He may have a better arm, but he throws a lot of INTs.

I agree with DP about the LBs. I think the group is as good, if not better, than what the Vikings had last season. No way is it a complete mess. Just my take.

I'm concerned about QB, WR, and CB. Quite honestly, while I think that Ponder still has a lot to prove, I worry about his ability to finish a season healthy more than anything. BTW, your assessment of Cassel sounds accurate to me, so if Ponder goes down with an injury then I don't see Cassel being any kind of an upgrade.

I'm not worried about Patterson. The word on him from the coaches and players (including Jennings) have been more than positive. Apparently, he's showing a good learning curve, which he also did with Tennessee, and everyone is saying the kid is absolutely loaded with talent. My biggest concern is that Greg Jennings stays healthy, because the guy is truly a quality WR and a team leader when he's on the field.

As for the CB position, I think my biggest worry is a health issue again. Cook needs to play the entire season. If he gets hurt again, I think the Vikings get very thin at CB.

[dead_poet]

And that's all you have. Erin Henderson? Desmond Bishop? Come on now. We have one competent linebacker, one average at best, and a bunch of giant question marks.

I'm not saying they're going to all three be Pro-Bowlers, but I'm looking for improvement from last season. At worst they'll be on par with 2012 (which wasn't abysmal), with the potential to be better.

His numbers have declined each of the last two seasons.

Are you talking about 2010 and 2011? If so, that decrease was negligible.

2010 (16 games): 76 receptions; 1,265 yards; 79.1 YPG; 12 TDs
2011 (13 games): 67 receptions; 949 yards; 73 YPG; 9 TDs

Extrapolate his 2011 to 16 games and everything is about equal. If you're comparing 2012 to 2011 (or 2010) than that's not really fair, obviously, with the injury. However if we're talking about him "slowing down" he did register 25 catches for 280 yards and four TDs over Green Bay's final four games, including playoffs.

There wasn't much (any?) interest other than the Vikings, and Packers (who wouldn't match the offer) and a late low ball by the Patriots. Our receivers are definitely improved from what they have been but we're going to have to wait to have any idea how much. And if downgrading from a top 3 Qb to a bottom 3 is going to affect Jennings even more.

I'm not sure Ponder is a bottom 3 QB, but your point is valid. Plus, the Vikings aren't a pas-first team like the Packers anyway, so in addition to talent there's a schematic shift to contend with. Of course, he also may see more one-on-one looks and Ponder's primary target (as opposed to being part of the "spread the wealth" that was/is Green Bay's receivers). It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Oh, and in addition to the Pats and Packers I believe Miami was interested for a period. It was reported that the Pack was offering a bit more per year than the Vikings ($10 million/year as opposed to the $9.5/year he got from Minnesota).

[jackal]

I think Bishop will help us (providing he is healthy) Henderson can stay where he is at or move to the middle

I think either Henderson or Bishop will be an improvement over last years "captain lost"at MLB

[Mothman]

Look at this team in the last decade. What is there to be positive about?

How about a huge 7 win improvement from 2011 to 2012? How about a running back who came within 9 yards of breaking the single season rushing record or a 2012 draft class that paid big dividends immediately? What about a 2013 draft class that has the potential to do the same?

Those are just things to be positive about now. There have been plenty in the past decade and there are things to be positive about with this team every year.

[Mothman]

I'm not sure Ponder is a bottom 3 QB, but your point is valid. Plus, the Vikings aren't a pas-first team like the Packers anyway, so in addition to talent there's a schematic shift to contend with. Of course, he also may see more one-on-one looks and Ponder's primary target (as opposed to being part of the "spread the wealth" that was/is Green Bay's receivers). It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

It will indeed and let's not forget that the quality of a QB's receivers is one of the factors that lands him in the top 3 or bottom 3. I don't consider Ponder a bottom 3 quarterback but I do think Jennings presence on the field can help Ponder perform better.

[mansquatch]

I agree with the sentiment that the CB position is a bigger concern than LB or WR at this point.

On LB the comment about playing 40% Nickel really seals the deal. 40% of the snaps we had EH and Greenway on the field as our only two LB. Those two guys are still on the roster. The big question is whether DB or EH are an upgrade of JB. I think they'll at least be on par. JB was terrible last season. There is some durability conern with DB, but if he is playing WILL, then of all the positions, that is the one where we can afford the issue.

CB is a much bigger concern in our division as well as this era of the NFL. Even at 35, Winfield was a big contributor who is now gone. Can Cook stay healthy? Is Rhodes as good as advertised? Is Robinson ready to play full time? Does AJ Jefferson improve? Those are the top 4 on the depth chart, which if all the above plays out, is probably a strong unit. If something goes amiss, the next guy up is Sherels. Big questions to be answered there.

[Purple bruise]

How about a huge 7 win improvement from 2011 to 2012? How about a running back who came within 9 yards of breaking the single season rushing record or a 2012 draft class that paid big dividends immediately? What about a 2013 draft class that has the potential to do the same?

Those are just things to be positive about now. There have been plenty in the past decade and there are things to be positive about with this team every year.

Jim why do you waste your time Some people are just cynics and defeatists by nature. That, of course does not make them "bad fans".
Of course this comes from me, a mindless, koolaid drinking zombie

[Eli]

Oh, look. Yet another thread that has turned into an off-topic argument over Ponder.

No wonder some of you people have tens of thousands of posts. And NO, I can't just "not read" it. Not when this crap infects every damned thread in these forums. Why is it necessary to come to Ponder's defense each and every time someone says anything about him? There can't be more than 40 or 50 regulars in the forum. Do you honestly think that there's even one of them that hasn't read these same arguments, word for word, dozens of times?

[Mothman]

Oh, look. Yet another thread that has turned into an off-topic argument over Ponder.

No wonder some of you people have tens of thousands of posts. And NO, I can't just "not read" it. Not when this crap infects every damned thread in these forums. Why is it necessary to come to Ponder's defense each and every time someone says anything about him? There can't be more than 40 or 50 regulars in the forum. Do you honestly think that there's even one of them that hasn't read these same arguments, word for word, dozens of times?

Yes. I thought my brief comment about Jennings' potentially positive influence on Ponder's game was completely new and terribly insightful. It would have been a disservice to the group, and indeed to the sports world, if I hadn't shared it.

Lighten up or take a break from the forum if the conversation is getting too repetitive for you. We're in the dog days of the offseason so there's very little news and "hot button" topics are inevitably going to come up repeatedly and nearly everything said will have been said before.

[dead_poet]

Oh, look. Yet another thread that has turned into an off-topic argument over Ponder.

Has it? I know some have that tendency, but I don't think this one has. I don't think a few comments classifies it as becoming an off-topic argument over Ponder. If anything it should get a gold star for staying pretty much on point.

No wonder some of you people have tens of thousands of posts.

Because we like voicing our opinions and engaging in discussion?

And NO, I can't just "not read" it. Not when this crap infects every damned thread in these forums. Why is it necessary to come to Ponder's defense each and every time someone says anything about him?

Why do pointing out facts, opinions of insiders and basing our own conclusions on those insights constitute as "coming to Ponder's defense"? I don't have a problem with other people's opinions, however I prefer if they are generated from facts and supporting evidence. If I see something I don't agree with, I may respond. Why is that such a problem?

There can't be more than 40 or 50 regulars in the forum. Do you honestly think that there's even one of them that hasn't read these same arguments, word for word, dozens of times?

For every few dozen people that post there are likely more that just enjoy sitting back and reading the exchanges. I like to think these discussion help them make up their own minds about things, or at the very least challenge their preconceived notions. My worry is if someone posts things like "Ponder has a weak arm", for example, and if nobody challenges that statement it can become part of the narrative when it may not be factually accurate.

I criticize players/coaches when I feel it's justified. For example, I harped on Sullivan pretty bad (and justifiably so with his play early in his career). But now I'm a supporter because of not only what I see on the field but the opinions of those in the organization, media and other NFL outlets. Sometimes people can post new information on the same discussion (or "argument"), which can influence things one way or another. *shrug* It's the offseason; it's hard to come up with new things to disagree on.

[Eli]

Lighten up or take a break from the forum if the conversation is getting too repetitive for you. We're in the dog days of the offseason so there's very little news and "hot button" topics are inevitably going to come up repeatedly and nearly everything said will have been said before.

Why not just quit repeating yourself? Can't you simply IGNORE the Ponder bashing, which is itself the same thing over and over? At least wait until the season starts and there's something new. You can even post new stats once he has some new games under his belt.

[Eli]

Has it? I know some have that tendency, but I don't think this one has. I don't think a few comments classifies it as becoming an off-topic argument over Ponder. If anything it should get a gold star for staying pretty much on point.

It's a thread about Desmond Bishop. Do you not have any concept of what 'off topic' means? Nothing that anyone could say about Christian Ponder ties into Desmond Bishop's past, present or future with the Vikings.

[vikeinmontana]

the irony of this thread is just great. people going so far off topic yelling at others to stay on topic. i thought this was a topic on desmond bishop?! mods, please change the subject of this thread to; "rules of staying o topic". please and thanks.

[Mothman]

Why not just quit repeating yourself? Can't you simply IGNORE the Ponder bashing, which is itself the same thing over and over? At least wait until the season starts and there's something new. You can even post new stats once he has some new games under his belt.

I didn't post stats in his defense or even particularly come to his defense in this thread. I simply made a two line observation about Jennings' potential to positively impact Ponder's game. Why can't you just IGNORE that?

If you want "new" go to a news site. This is a fan discussion forum. We're here to discuss, not to keep you entertained with fresh, exciting new content every day. I like discussing Ponder so when the subject comes up, I often weigh in on it. If you get tired of my posts, or dead_poet's posts or posts about Ponder, they're all easy enough to skip and ignore. After all, I often ignore your griping.

I'll try not to repeat myself too often but it will happen. We all do it. You do too. As I said, if it's getting to you, why not take a break from it and come back when there's more happening with the team? There will be more to discuss at that point.

[dead_poet]

It's a thread about Desmond Bishop. Do you not have any concept of what 'off topic' means? Nothing that anyone could say about Christian Ponder ties into Desmond Bishop's past, present or future with the Vikings.

You do realize that this is a team, right? And that sometimes when discussing the team other players come up? I wasn't aware that message board protocol dictated mentioning only those listed in the subject line.

Breathe.