The Webb experiment is finally over!

[losperros]

I'm sure he has some open field running ability but running away from DEs and LBs when a play breaks down is very different from evading CBs, safeties and LBs in the open field after a reception. Webb can run and if he makes the team as a receiver, I suspect he'll be pretty effective running after the catch because he's big and strong but I wouldn't expect it look like it did when he was evading a pass rush. There's a different level of agility involved.

Who knows? Maybe Webb's jumping ability will define his role as a WR even more than his speed. With Webb, Simpson, and Patterson, the Vikings have three guys that can really leap up for the ball. One would think at some point the Vikings are going to try some jump balls in the end zone, if nothing else.

[headless_norseman]

One has to wonder if that #6 spot is Webb's for the taking....

Tonee of Winter, Wis., wasn't having it, asking via the mailbag why Patterson was a first-round draft pick while Webb -- who is bigger, stronger, a better leaper and almost as fast -- is considered to be such a long shot. An excerpt from a long note:

But....

But even coach Leslie Frazier said that in his most hopeful vision of Webb's progress, "he'll be able to grasp the route-running part of it fast enough to give himself the best chance to go out and really have a chance to make the transition smoothly when we get to training camp."

[Mothman]

Who knows? Maybe Webb's jumping ability will define his role as a WR even more than his speed. With Webb, Simpson, and Patterson, the Vikings have three guys that can really leap up for the ball. One would think at some point the Vikings are going to try some jump balls in the end zone, if nothing else.

Excellent point. I would think they'd try to take advantage of his size and leaping ability, especially in the red zone.

[S197]

I'm sure he has some open field running ability but running away from DEs and LBs when a play breaks down is very different from evading CBs, safeties and LBs in the open field after a reception. Webb can run and if he makes the team as a receiver, I suspect he'll be pretty effective running after the catch because he's big and strong but I wouldn't expect it look like it did when he was evading a pass rush. There's a different level of agility involved.

There's a difference but as you mention I don't think this is his area of weakness. The body size, the 4.4 speed, the 40+ inch vert, and maybe some decent hands too. There's nothing to really suggest he won't hold his own against DB's when he has the football. He was drafted to be a WR, played the position in college and the senior bowl, has returned kicks, etc. Webb is not the traditional QB. It's all the other stuff that will be his biggest hurdles, the route running, ability to get off the line cleanly, etc.

[VikingLord]

Don't QB's have to know the route trees? And don't they have to know *all* the route trees, not just the ones for a particular WR position given that the QB is the one throwing the ball?

Maybe Webb isn't as far away from being able to function as a viable WR. I read Webb was already helping the younger WR's to line up correctly, which obviously means Webb was paying attention in his stint at QB.

IMHO, the main question for Webb is can he catch and can he physically make the cuts and moves to gain separation and make the tough catches a pro WR has to be able to make. If the answer to those questions is yes, I could see Webb functioning as much more than a #6. On this team? Webb could be a starter IMHO, especially if Jennings can't shake the injury bug.

[Eli]

Excellent point. I would think they'd try to take advantage of his size and leaping ability, especially in the red zone.

Maybe in the preseason. If Webb makes it as the #5 or $6 receiver, he'll be playing behind Jennings, Patterson and Simpson, PLUS you have Kyle Rudolph, any of which would likely be considered better red zone targets than Webb. If he makes the roster, Joe Webb becomes the new Stephen Burton. When the season is over, you'll say "eh, didn't see much of him".

[headless_norseman]

Maybe in the preseason. If Webb makes it as the #5 or $6 receiver, he'll be playing behind Jennings, Patterson and Simpson, PLUS you have Kyle Rudolph, any of which would likely be considered better red zone targets than Webb. If he makes the roster, Joe Webb becomes the new Stephen Burton. When the season is over, you'll say "eh, didn't see much of him".

Methinks the talent and upside to Webb is far greater than Burton, hopefully we will get to see that this season.

[Mothman]

There's a difference but as you mention I don't think this is his area of weakness.

I don't think it's an area of weakness either but I'm not sure he has the kind of open field running ability the team should manufacture touches to exploit, as they did with Harvin and as some are speculating they will do with Patterson. I'll also admit I could be totally wrong about that! I do think he has the kind of size and athletic ability that could make him dangerous on slants, as an end zone receiver, etc.

The body size, the 4.4 speed, the 40+ inch vert, and maybe some decent hands too. There's nothing to really suggest he won't hold his own against DB's when he has the football. He was drafted to be a WR, played the position in college and the senior bowl, has returned kicks, etc. Webb is not the traditional QB. It's all the other stuff that will be his biggest hurdles, the route running, ability to get off the line cleanly, etc.

Just to be clear, I think he has the athletic ability to hold his own against DBs. I don't doubt that he has the athletic ability to play receiver. His skills are the concern. All I was trying to say is that the open field running ability he showed as a QB may be a bit deceptive because running from that position is different than running from WR.

[Mothman]

Maybe in the preseason. If Webb makes it as the #5 or $6 receiver, he'll be playing behind Jennings, Patterson and Simpson, PLUS you have Kyle Rudolph, any of which would likely be considered better red zone targets than Webb. If he makes the roster, Joe Webb becomes the new Stephen Burton. When the season is over, you'll say "eh, didn't see much of him".

That seems likely to me as well but I'm trying not be overly cynical here since people are clearly so hopeful regarding Webb and athletically speaking, he does have potential. I still think it will be somewhat surprising if he makes the team, although he seems to be well-liked by the coaches so that may help him. Personally, if he makes the roster I expect his primary role to be on special teams but if he were to show some real aptitude as an end zone receiver, he might get more opportunities there even if he was 5th or 6th on the depth chart. Musgrave likes to use specialized personnel packages.

[losperros]

Maybe in the preseason. If Webb makes it as the #5 or $6 receiver, he'll be playing behind Jennings, Patterson and Simpson, PLUS you have Kyle Rudolph, any of which would likely be considered better red zone targets than Webb. If he makes the roster, Joe Webb becomes the new Stephen Burton. When the season is over, you'll say "eh, didn't see much of him".

And there's Wright, too. While he's probably not a better jumper than Webb, he's probably better at everything else as a receiver. That means Webb will be behind him as well on the roster, possibly even in red zone situations.

I see Stephen Burton as being a wide run-blocker more than a wide receiver. I don't know if Webb can run block or not. Still, I agree that Webb will more than likely replace Burton on the roster, IF Webb makes the team.

[MV711]

I want to see the Vikes utilize some 4 and 5 WR sets and see what kind of damage we can do.

I'm tired of all the speculation by everyone. Let's get creative like some of the other pass happy teams !!!

[dead_poet]

I want to see the Vikes utilize some 4 and 5 WR sets and see what kind of damage we can do.

I'm tired of all the speculation by everyone. Let's get creative like some of the other pass happy teams !!!

With a run-first offense with the reigning league MVP doing, what, sitting on the sidelines? I prefer we play to our strengths and not try to be something we're not. We don't have the QB/receivers to be tossing it around 30-40 times/game. With the way this team is constructed that's pretty much a recipe for disaster. No thanks.

[Mothman]

With a run-first offense with the reigning league MVP doing, what, sitting on the sidelines? I prefer we play to our strengths and not try to be something we're not. We don't have the QB/receivers to be tossing it around 30-40 times/game. With the way this team is constructed that's pretty much a recipe for disaster. No thanks.

Going with 4 or 5 WRs isn't getting creative, it's just lining up with a different personnel formation. There's nothing inherently creative about that.

A 4 WR, single back set either puts Rudolph on the sidelines or moves him outside and matches him up against a DB rather than an LB (not exactly his best matchup). A 5 WR set puts Rudolph and Peterson on the sidelines. There might be an occasional situation where they think they can exploit a defense with a 4 or 5 WR set but it's probably not something they should use frequently. As you pointed out, it doesn't play to their strengths. Plus, empty backfield sets tend to result in a lot of sacks and disrupted plays since the defense knows they can just attack. They place a lot of pressure on the OL and I'm not sure doing that to the Vikes OL (which struggled against blitzes last year anyway) is wise.

An offense can do plenty of damage with 2 or 3 WRs on the field and even more when AD is in the backfield.

[MV711]

Going with 4 or 5 WRs isn't getting creative, it's just lining up with a different personnel formation. There's nothing inherently creative about that.

A 4 WR, single back set either puts Rudolph on the sidelines or moves him outside and matches him up against a DB rather than an LB (not exactly his best matchup). A 5 WR set puts Rudolph and Peterson on the sidelines. There might be an occasional situation where they think they can exploit a defense with a 4 or 5 WR set but it's probably not something they should use frequently. As you pointed out, it doesn't play to their strengths. Plus, empty backfield sets tend to result in a lot of sacks and disrupted plays since the defense knows they can just attack. They place a lot of pressure on the OL and I'm not sure doing that to the Vikes OL (which struggled against blitzes last year anyway) is wise.

An offense can do plenty of damage with 2 or 3 WRs on the field and even more when AD is in the backfield.

OMG you guys actually think I do not want to see AD in the backfield and only run 4 or 5 WR sets all or most of the time.. Get real here. I'm saying run some of these sets some of the time as a change of pace and try to catch defenses off guard.. There are ways to be creative with these sets as we did this at SU and I'm sure the Vikes can be much more creative than SU was. Both of you nor anyone else knows it will or will not work unless the Vikes try it. WE need to be more unpredictable!!

[Mothman]

OMG you guys actually think I do not want to see AD in the backfield and only run 4 or 5 WR sets all or most of the time.. Get real here.

I didn't think you meant most of the time but the "Let's get creative like some of the other pass happy teams" part of your comment suggested (to me anyway) that you weren't talking about using 4 and 5 WR personnel packages sparingly either. Sorry if I misunderstood you...

I'm saying run some of these sets some of the time as a change of pace and try to catch defenses off guard..

I'm pretty sure they already do that but last year they did so rarely, probably because they didn't have particular strong personnel at WR.

There are ways to be creative with these sets as we did this at SU and I'm sure the Vikes can be much more creative than SU was. Both of you nor anyone else knows it will or will not work unless the Vikes try it. WE need to be more unpredictable!!

I'm all for being unpredictable and I certainly don't have a problem with them mixing in some 4 WR sets once in a while if they feel they can create a favorable matchup or exploit a serious weakness in an opposing defense but they can be creative and unpredictable from any formation.