Eli wrote:
Meh. Not at $10M+, or even $5M. Let him walk/run away. There will be plenty of veterans to provide leadership to the new players. A player doesn't need to be 32 years old and have 10 years in the league to be a leader.
No, those aren't the only factors but I think Allen does have the tangible and intangible characteristics you would look for in a leader. You can see it on the sidelines and in his high motor playstyle. Also, coming from a checkered past to a squeaky clean history over the last few years he can relate to and help, players with character concerns.
I'm not saying Allen is the only leader we have, but he's a pretty good one and that needs to be accounted for in his overall worth to the team.
S197 wrote:No, those aren't the only factors but I think Allen does have the tangible and intangible characteristics you would look for in a leader. You can see it on the sidelines and in his high motor playstyle. Also, coming from a checkered past to a squeaky clean history over the last few years he can relate to and help, players with character concerns.
I'm not saying Allen is the only leader we have, but he's a pretty good one and that needs to be accounted for in his overall worth to the team.
S197 wrote:The Vikings need to be careful with the youth movement. Getting younger is a good thing but at the same time you also want to keep leadership on the team. With the loss of Winfield and the end in sight for Kevin Williams, Allen is the type of player I can see as being a leader for the defense for the next few years.
They let Winfield go without even really trying to keep him around, even if for the benefit of the younger DBs. Esp. for a cover/tampa 2. They wont keep JA if he doesn't really improve over last year. Soon the average age of the roster will be 25ish. I don't know if that's good or bad. But its what Spielman wants.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
They let Winfield go without even really trying to keep him around, even if for the benefit of the younger DBs. Esp. for a cover/tampa 2. They wont keep JA if he doesn't really improve over last year. Soon the average age of the roster will be 25ish. I don't know if that's good or bad. But its what Spielman wants.
It's definitely good, if the average is 25 you must have some guys in the 21-23 range and some guys in the 27-29 range so a good amount of veterans and young talent. Higher than that and you're pushing a bunch of guys going on 30+ which is when players start to decline. That's fine for a guy like Jared Allen who's ceiling is higher to begin with anyway. When it's Jenkins pushing 30 well that's taking an average player and getting a worse version of him.
It'd make sense to keep Allen if we can, then let Robison go who's above average but will start to decline into average quicker. If we could keep K.will at back up money that'd be good too but otherwise Floyd is the future there.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
They let Winfield go without even really trying to keep him around, even if for the benefit of the younger DBs. Esp. for a cover/tampa 2. They wont keep JA if he doesn't really improve over last year. Soon the average age of the roster will be 25ish. I don't know if that's good or bad. But its what Spielman wants.
We'll see. I think it's a bit of an apples/oranges comparison. Winfield was going to be a nickel corner and thus not worth the $7.5MM. Allen is an every down DE. It will depend on what sort of contract Allen will be looking for but I think in terms of use, an elite pass rusher is much more valuable than a nickel DB.
It certainly sounds like he wants the money he signed for and will discuss a new deal when the time comes. In the meantime he has a season to pump up his value. I think he's overpaid as far as his position goes but I have no doubt about his value to the franchise and the effort he puts forth. I don't consider him easy to replace either. There all all kinds of DL's and Griffen looks to be a good one, but Allen is definitely unique IMO. He sets a tone and is a rah rah guy....he buys in and seems to be contagious. Hopefully they can get one more contract out of him without conflicting with the cap.
S197 wrote:The Vikings need to be careful with the youth movement. Getting younger is a good thing but at the same time you also want to keep leadership on the team. With the loss of Winfield and the end in sight for Kevin Williams, Allen is the type of player I can see as being a leader for the defense for the next few years.
Agreed. The class of 2012 could just be an anomaly. The franchise may never have that type of luck again.
I am for keeping JA just because I don't believe anyone else on the team is capable of consistent double digit sacks. Jared Allen did change the Vikings sack stats since his arrival. The team is statistically in the top 5 sack wise, every year since his arrival. One player can make a difference.
Eli wrote:The franchise tag on a DE pays over $11M right now. If Allen has another down season, he won't command anything close to that for 2014.
That will be especially true if Allen has health issues again. He played hurt much of last season. If he starts having nagging injuries, his price goes down.
I said this before, but paying Allen his full deal is a big courtesy in the NFL. ESPN sensationalizes contract size, but all the players know that what truly matters is the guarranteed money. Allen is getting paid his full contract, not just the guarranteed money. That is in a way a huge compliment from the organization.
Also, the KWill and Winfield situations were dissimilar in a key area: Both players are older and while still competitive are not playing at their peak level any longer. KWill will likely leave next year and I'll be willing to bet that his new contract will not pay him the $4+MM he is getthing this year. Winfield was set to make $7.5MM and wasn't earning it. His new contract is $3+MM. The point here is that as players age their value declines. In an NFL where the salary cap is a big deal, it makes sense to pull these values down when perofrmance doesn't meet pay.
So taking that last point full circle, Allen getting paid his full deal is a bit of a rarity and IMO a sign of good faith by the Vikings.
The big issue in the Winfield situation was how they brought his value down. Obviously something in that situation broke down and we have him playing in Seattle. Whether the obstruction was the Vikings or Winfield we do not know, but it is much easier to blame the purple.
All we can do is watch on this one and I doubt anything will go down until next year.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
I hope the Vikings and Jared Allen work something out when the season is over. I really want JA to stay as a Viking but not if the price is too much for the team. Now if Allen has another breakout season this year, then I think he deserves to be paid a good amount. With that being said, I hope this new contract the Vikings will offer is fair as well, he doesn't deserve a huge paycut because he is still valuable to the team. His presence alone attracts double teams. And with the addition of Floyd it should take the double teams off Allen now.
Whoever thinks he's a grubber for not taking a penny less should put some pads on at an elite level. It's football not baseball and these guys play with broken bones, pulled muscles, torn ligame nts and concussions. It's rigorous on the body so I don't blame him for wanting to stack the bank with dinero. In the nfl you are always one play away from a career ending injury.
I've played HS ( two years All- State) and college ball (SU) and I know how difficult it is to play and what it does to your body. If I was good enough to play pro ball I'd do the same as Allen.
