** Official 2013 Draft Thread **

[FPG]

Someone clue me in on all these grab-your-shoulder references in reference to punters and kickers...

Apparently Locke was playing with a shoulder injury and was kicking so hard it was hurting him. They were showing clips on NFL network.

[saint33]

That's silly, no offense Dan.

The guy has been ranked among the top 5 punters in the NFC for years. He had an off season, but his hang time went up. Marginal players are guys like Leo Araguz who drift from team to team.

A big factor that goes into punting is the ability of the offense to move the ball into a spot that is "ideal" for pinning it into the 20 (we're talking getting up to the 50 yard line or better here). If the team has a lot of three and outs, it has a direct effect on whether or not a punter is going to be able to do that or if he just has to slam it as hard as he can. Kluwe's hang time stats went up over last season's, even though his I20 stats went down. I think for anyone who watched, that's pretty self explanatory.

Most fans don't check their punter's stats against the rest of the league. Everyone thinks their punter is the worst punter unless they see his picture in the "top 5 punters" list on ESPN. And if a punter shanks one or two during the season, that's all the fans remember. And they often rank it against the average punt distance, which also is directly affected by the capabilities of the coverage teams and the ability to move the ball into a good spot. If you're stuck slamming a lot of punts, you're going to get better hang time and maybe distance stats but it's going to be harder to cover the guy who's returning the punts against you because your cover team will have more distance to cover.

We are in lower half of every stat I checked. Punt yards 22nd, Net Yards 21st, Punt Avg 20th, Net Avg 17th, Longest punt 30th, Inside the 20 yard line 31st.

That's below average if you ask me.

[saint33]

Someone clue me in on all these grab-your-shoulder references in reference to punters and kickers...

Locke appears to have injured his shoulder as every highlight they showed of him he followed each kick by grabbing his shoulder in pain.

[Angels Wings]

Apparently Locke was playing with a shoulder injury and was kicking so hard it was hurting him. They were showing clips on NFL network.

Yeah, Rich Eisen was not pleased at all...

[VikingLord]

Anybody know why Jessie Williams fell so far? I saw some mocks that had him going at the end of the 1st round. Very surprised he lasted to the 5th, and equally surprised the Vikings passed on him in the 4th. He could have filled that run-stopping role that Pat Williams had.

[saint33]

Anybody know why Jessie Williams fell so far? I saw some mocks that had him going at the end of the 1st round. Very surprised he lasted to the 5th, and equally surprised the Vikings passed on him in the 4th. He could have filled that run-stopping role that Pat Williams had.

2 down player who was highly overrated in the predraft process (or at least IMO). Injury issues apparently pushed him down the board even more than most expected

[Rus]

When you have an inconsistent passing game for half of the season, then a run-run-run offense for the second half, that also has a direct effect on punting numbers. Those two offenses do a pretty effective job of not putting a punter in place to do very well.

It's more than the position. Look at the guy's career stats and stack them up against the potency of the offenses each of those years.

The position is entirely dependent on the offense at that time to get into decent field position. The position is entirely about field position. It's very different from evaluating even a kicker. Those stats are really fairly useless. Punters aren't always instructed to boot the ball, but if there's 60 yards separating them and the other team's end zone, they have to. Then the other team's returners take it back and usually do so a lot more often than if you're punting it 40 yards from being 50 yards out.

[saint33]

When you have an inconsistent passing game for half of the season, then a run-run-run offense for the second half, that also has a direct effect on punting numbers. Those two offenses do a pretty effective job of not putting a punter in place to do very well.

It's more than the position. Look at the guy's career stats and stack them up against the potency of the offenses each of those years.

The position is entirely dependent on the offense at that time to get into decent field position. The position is entirely about field position. It's very different from evaluating even a kicker. Those stats are really fairly useless. Punters aren't always instructed to boot the ball, but if there's 60 yards separating them and the other team's end zone, they have to. Then the other team's returners take it back and usually do so a lot more often than if you're punting it 40 yards from being 50 yards out.

While I think you have a fair point, I don't think it's entirely accurate when it comes to the best in the league. Lechler has been an All Pro his entire career and has been on some of the most pathetic offenses in the league.

From every indication, the Vikings believe Locke can be that kind of a punter. Kluwe doesn't have that talent.

[Rus]

Hodges was a good pick at least. No matter how you feel about Penn State, they can turn out capable linebackers. I'm pretty much satisfied with the top four.

Too bad they couldn't bring in another guard with that fifth. But, at least it will make all the people who scream "shut up and play" at players (but would be furious if their bosses or coworkers told them the same thing at work when they talk politics) plenty happy until the preseason anyway.

Crap, didn't notice Corey Fuller was still on the board in the sixth. Why they didn't take HIM in the 5th is even more irritating. That guy's big and fast. Now the Lions got him.

[Rus]

While I think you have a fair point, I don't think it's entirely accurate when it comes to the best in the league. Lechler has been an All Pro his entire career and has been on some of the most pathetic offenses in the league.

From every indication, the Vikings believe Locke can be that kind of a punter. Kluwe doesn't have that talent.

Punters aren't THAT big a deal. It's probably a less important position than kicker and maybe more important than long snapper. If you have a guy who isn't screwing you over, you're probably okay. If you have a linebacker that is constantly missing tackles, a lineman that is letting rushers nail your quarterback consistently or making a lot of false starts...THAT is a problem.

There's a reason why a lot of punters aren't drafted, because unless you have a serious problem with the position (like Tice had prior to signing Kluwe), you don't draft a punter. It's like drafting a guy to be your long snapper. Sometimes you take a guy in the 7th to compete at center, and if he can long snap, then cool. But if Locke doesn't outperform Kluwe in training camp, then fifth round pick is wasted.

Considering how many picks were traded for Patterson, they needed to make the most out of that fourth and fifth. They did well with the fourth, but unless the fifth can not only kick well, but hold well, then you just wasted that pick. There are plenty of guys who are backups on the Vikings who are practice squadders with any other team. Those guys could have been well replaced with that fifth round pick.

[S197]

Decent talent still around. Poyer, Rogers, Hamilton, etc.

[Eli]

So what's wrong with Da'Rick Rogers?

[saint33]

Punters aren't THAT big a deal. It's probably a less important position than kicker and maybe more important than long snapper. If you have a guy who isn't screwing you over, you're probably okay. If you have a linebacker that is constantly missing punts, a lineman that is letting rushers nail your quarterback consistently or making a lot of false starts...THAT is a problem.

There's a reason why a lot of punters aren't drafted, because unless you have a serious problem with the position (like Tice had prior to signing Kluwe), you don't draft a punter. It's like drafting a guy to be your long snapper. Sometimes you take a guy in the 7th to compete at center, and if he can long snap, then cool. But if Locke doesn't outperform Kluwe in training camp, then fifth round pick is wasted.

Considering how many picks were traded for Patterson, they needed to make the most out of that fourth and fifth. They did well with the fourth, but unless the fifth can not only kick well, but hold well, then you just wasted that pick. There are plenty of guys who are backups on the Vikings who are practice squadders with any other team. Those guys could have been well replaced with that fifth round pick.

Ok I understand this. But from every indication is this kid can not only do all those things, but excels at his craft (and is a great KOS as well).

And suggesting the punter is not an important position, I would definitely disagree. Field position is huge and if you have a great punter it can change a game. Not saying this is the best 5th round pick in the world, but we heard the same stuff about how we wasted the Walsh pick last year. These are kids that you get in the 5th/6th round that come in and make an immediate impact, that is valuable. Considering the talent left on the board at other positions, some would say far more valuable than a backup developmental player at another position.

Let me put this in perspective, our last few picks in the 5th round: Nate Triplett, Chris Degeare, Brandon Burton, Robert Blanton. Not exactly a group of impact starters there

[saint33]

So what's wrong with Da'Rick Rogers?

Significant off field and character issues.

[Rus]

Let me put this in perspective, our last few picks in the 5th round: Nate Triplett, Chris Degeare, Brandon Burton, Robert Blanton. Not exactly a group of impact starters there

Past bad picks should never be used to rationalize taking another wasted pick. There is no reason that you can't get value out of a pick because you botched them in that round in the past. It's about as rational an argument as saying "I can't step on a crack in the sidewalk because last time I did that my mom hurt her back."