WRs to watch

[dead_poet]

I just got done watching a lot of games of the Wr's that are possibilities for us. I have to say I am even more about Hopkins now. Out of all of the WR's, Hopkins is the most physical receiver. In the link below you can see how well he battles with the LSU defense.

The main reason I think Hopkins is our guy is because...

-He is a GREAT run blocker
-He is a very physical Receiver, not scared of contact
-Very durable, no lingering injuries
-Excellent route runner, very good at getting separation
-Can make an instant impact on Sunday's

In the bowl game against LSU he does a great job of getting real physical with the DB's by putting his hands on them during the run. This is AP's team, so run blocking is going to be a big key to the decision at WR IMO.

Everyone here has probably already done their research on the WR's in this draft but I think this video shows Hopkins talents and the few weaknesses he has. The only weakness I have really heard of is that he is probably at the peak of his talent already)

2012 BOWL GAME VS. LSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCVWGxNjF_k

Nice. Thanks for the link. He sure lit up LSU. I'd be very okay if we were able to swing Hopkins & Woods in rounds 1/2.

[Mothman]

I don't keep track of prior year's drafts the way I did before, so I can't give you the hard data you want and deserve. But the soft data - my opinion - is that certain positions are overvalued in the draft, and those are the ones with the higher failure rate. Teams seem to fall in love with WR's, QB's, and DE's. Maybe add OT and CB's to that list. Those positions tend to have a bigger bust potential.

If I recall correctly, OT is actually one of the positions with the lowest bust rate in the first round but I agree that there are certain positions where the bust rate is higher than others.

I would slightly amend what you wrote above and say that certain attributes are overvalued and that's often what gets teams into trouble. WR is a great example of that and as I was saying earlier in the thread, I think there's a tendency to equate speed and "wow" play ability with greatness at WR and to value those qualities above others that can be equally valuable (perhaps even more valuable). That mentality leads to picks like Troy Williamson, Heyward-Bey and (this year) Patterson. When teams start looking too much at attributes like speed, size, "wingspan" etc. they end up drafting less skilled players, believing they can develop them into stars. Sometimes that works but it's a high risk approach. Maybe Patterson will be an example of a "raw" talent that develops into an impact player. who knows? He definitely looks like a high risk/high reward gamble to me.

I don't think drafting a WR in the first round is that much riskier than drafting a player at another position IF the team evaluated that WR wisely and focused on the right things. There are never guarantees, of course, but if a team places more emphasis on skill and performance when evaluating a receiver than they do on measurables or raw athleticism, I suspect their chances of landing a productive player improve.

You made a great point about the impact a run on a position can have because if a team is drafting for need and the position has already been depleted a bit, that's when you get a reach and a player may end up disappointing, at least based on draft position and the expectations that creates.

[Mothman]

I just got done watching a lot of games of the Wr's that are possibilities for us. I have to say I am even more about Hopkins now. Out of all of the WR's, Hopkins is the most physical receiver. In the link below you can see how well he battles with the LSU defense.

The main reason I think Hopkins is our guy is because...

-He is a GREAT run blocker
-He is a very physical Receiver, not scared of contact
-Very durable, no lingering injuries
-Excellent route runner, very good at getting separation
-Can make an instant impact on Sunday's

In the bowl game against LSU he does a great job of getting real physical with the DB's by putting his hands on them during the run. This is AP's team, so run blocking is going to be a big key to the decision at WR IMO.

Everyone here has probably already done their research on the WR's in this draft but I think this video shows Hopkins talents and the few weaknesses he has. The only weakness I have really heard of is that he is probably at the peak of his talent already)

2012 BOWL GAME VS. LSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCVWGxNjF_k

Thanks for the link! I definitely think he could be a great choice for the Vikes.

[Texas Vike]

I just got done watching a lot of games of the Wr's that are possibilities for us. I have to say I am even more about Hopkins now. Out of all of the WR's, Hopkins is the most physical receiver. In the link below you can see how well he battles with the LSU defense.

The main reason I think Hopkins is our guy is because...

-He is a GREAT run blocker
-He is a very physical Receiver, not scared of contact
-Very durable, no lingering injuries
-Excellent route runner, very good at getting separation
-Can make an instant impact on Sunday's

In the bowl game against LSU he does a great job of getting real physical with the DB's by putting his hands on them during the run. This is AP's team, so run blocking is going to be a big key to the decision at WR IMO.

Everyone here has probably already done their research on the WR's in this draft but I think this video shows Hopkins talents and the few weaknesses he has. The only weakness I have really heard of is that he is probably at the peak of his talent already)

2012 BOWL GAME VS. LSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCVWGxNjF_k

That was a great game!

He looked unstoppable, to the point that LSU just decided to try and get extremely physical with him, committing PI on nearly every play. He certainly didn't get intimidated by that. I like him a lot.

He put up serious numbers: 82 rec. /1405 yds/ 18 TDs in 2012. Career (3 seasons): 205/ 3009/ 27

Am I remembering right that the Vikes brought two WRs to their "top 30" deal recently: Hopkins and Allen?

[dead_poet]

Am I remembering right that the Vikes brought two WRs to their "top 30" deal recently: Hopkins and Allen?

You are correct.

[PurpleKoolaid]

We better get a tall, bigger WR like Hunter. At least in round 2. No more excuses for Ponder about not having any outside help. We got the middle and slot covered. I bet we go 1st round D anyways, and maybe Hunter is there later.

[dead_poet]

some more of Hopkins:

Auburn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtgrDtt6D4Q

FSU and NC St http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyt03Itopwo he shouldn't be a kr o pr lol

vs. 5 teams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTJjRlGOCjk

Career 17.1 ave? Dang. I forgot how solid his numbers were. 4 multi-TD games. Only once this season he was kept out of the end zone.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... re-hopkins

Curious Mayock has him as a mid to late second rounder. Rates him as his #5 WR after Patterson, Allen, Austin and Patton.

[Texas Vike]

some more of Hopkins:

Auburn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtgrDtt6D4Q

FSU and NC St http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyt03Itopwo he shouldn't be a kr o pr lol

vs. 5 teams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTJjRlGOCjk

2nd link @ 2:25 mark: 50 yard bomb into double coverage and he goes and gets it. This kid passes the eye test, at least from this armchair, youtube watching perspective!

I think Allen, Hopkins and Woods are all pretty likely candidates for the Vikes.

[Texas Vike]

Here's a solid day from Keenan Allen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv0WbntB-z8

Looks like they used him similarly to how we used PH.

[Texas Vike]

Woods vs. UCLA and ND (2012).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_YzblEb5pc

[PacificNorseWest]

Here's a solid day from Keenan Allen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv0WbntB-z8

Looks like they used him similarly to how we used PH.

Yeah...Sorry, guys. I just don't see it with him.

Percy takes that screen to the house in college and the main reason they get yards on that play is because of its design. Another play they feed him on a quick hitter where some good cushion is provided, but doesn't break a tackle and gets only 3 yards. The corner leveled up and stuck his facemask in his chest and Allen couldn't wiggle nowhere.

The third play they are playing a soft cover 2 and all he does is sit in the open spot. Bad throw, but it's not like Allen is exploiting anyone or anything. Another screen play that goes for minimal yards, solid spin move, but that'll get swallowed up by a DE in the NFL. A bubble screen that gets good yardage, but he's also got a good amount of real estate in front of him to begin with.

The TD comes when the safety drops back to playing 9 yards off (on the 8 yard line too) of Allen just before the snap in man coverage on the and it was against a safety that got taken out of the play on a cross route. That's on UCLA and not on anything Allen provided

The only thing the least bit of encouraging is his final TD against a CB. Horrible press on snap, but you can also tell that the CB has no recovery speed and Allen still almost got caught.

I see a guy who can catch and who at the college level was a solid WR. He gets mashed on those plays against NFL caliber players.

[PacificNorseWest]

Now watch the Robert Woods video. Much better prospect in my opinion on the NFL level.

[mondry]

If I recall correctly, OT is actually one of the positions with the lowest bust rate in the first round but I agree that there are certain positions where the bust rate is higher than others.

I would slightly amend what you wrote above and say that certain attributes are overvalued and that's often what gets teams into trouble. WR is a great example of that and as I was saying earlier in the thread, I think there's a tendency to equate speed and "wow" play ability with greatness at WR and to value those qualities above others that can be equally valuable (perhaps even more valuable). That mentality leads to picks like Troy Williamson, Heyward-Bey and (this year) Patterson. When teams start looking too much at attributes like speed, size, "wingspan" etc. they end up drafting less skilled players, believing they can develop them into stars. Sometimes that works but it's a high risk approach. Maybe Patterson will be an example of a "raw" talent that develops into an impact player. who knows? He definitely looks like a high risk/high reward gamble to me.

I don't think drafting a WR in the first round is that much riskier than drafting a player at another position IF the team evaluated that WR wisely and focused on the right things. There are never guarantees, of course, but if a team places more emphasis on skill and performance when evaluating a receiver than they do on measurables or raw athleticism, I suspect their chances of landing a productive player improve.

You made a great point about the impact a run on a position can have because if a team is drafting for need and the position has already been depleted a bit, that's when you get a reach and a player may end up disappointing, at least based on draft position and the expectations that creates.

Yeah, it's why teams like the Jaguars STILL need a pass rusher. I feel like literally every year for the past 5 years it seems they've forced a DE and they still have no one to rush the passer! We were kind of like that before we just gave up and decided to trade for Jared. I definitely agree with John though that WR, DE, and QB are the biggest risks with high picks. For DE and WR I really feel like teams are much more willing to ignore the simple questions like "will this guy be a good receiver in the NFL" and instead get caught up in the physical stats and "untapped potential."

I remember a DE came out named Vernon Gholston, on paper he was suppose to be unblockable, 266 lbs and runs a 4.58, just unreal physical ability and what does it get him? ZERO sacks in the NFL. Apparently they forgot to see if he could actually play football or not.

Of course Jim's also right in that the good gm's / evaluators don't fall into the same kind of traps. I think Spielman showed us last year and he must have said it a million times in the preseason interviews and what not that the first thing we ask is "is this guy a good football player?" That's why we went with Kalil instead of the sexy WR blackmon or CB Claiborne, why we trade up for Harrison Smith, get Jarius Wright in the 4th round, Robinson, and an awesome kicker. The Walsh pick could have easily been spent on some athletic Joe Webb like pick with very little chance of success so I give Spielman a lot of props for making that pick.

[Mothman]

Yeah...Sorry, guys. I just don't see it with him.

Percy takes that screen to the house in college and the main reason they get yards on that play is because of its design. Another play they feed him on a quick hitter where some good cushion is provided, but doesn't break a tackle and gets only 3 yards. The corner leveled up and stuck his facemask in his chest and Allen couldn't wiggle nowhere.

The third play they are playing a soft cover 2 and all he does is sit in the open spot. Bad throw, but it's not like Allen is exploiting anyone or anything. Another screen play that goes for minimal yards, solid spin move, but that'll get swallowed up by a DE in the NFL. A bubble screen that gets good yardage, but he's also got a good amount of real estate in front of him to begin with.

The TD comes when the safety drops back to playing 9 yards off (on the 8 yard line too) of Allen just before the snap in man coverage on the and it was against a safety that got taken out of the play on a cross route. That's on UCLA and not on anything Allen provided

The only thing the least bit of encouraging is his final TD against a CB. Horrible press on snap, but you can also tell that the CB has no recovery speed and Allen still almost got caught.

I see a guy who can catch and who at the college level was a solid WR. He gets mashed on those plays against NFL caliber players.

I get that you don't like his game and there's nothing wrong with that but it seems like you're just being dismissive for the sake of it. With rare exceptions, I could do what you just did with any set of plays and any receiver in almost any game. It's easy to find a defensive failure to go with every offensive success and to minimize every accomplishment. Sitting down in zones, getting open on slants, exploiting mistakes in coverage, getting a step on defenders, executing a play as it's designed... this is how receivers gain yardage and score TDs.

[Mothman]

Glad you agree, because honestly I have been trying to secretly get you particularly!! to agree on Hopkins. lol

LOL! I like him quite a bit. I'm definitely glad he's on the Vikings radar. If I post about Allen more, it's only because I keep getting caught up in discussions about him.

Plus "Nuke" is a pretty cool nick name

It's a very cool nickname.