Percy's future w/ Vikings looking uncertain

[mansquatch]

I know you mentioned the QB differential between PH and Cobb, but in the context of the elite pass catchers, I do not think this aspect should be overlooked in your analysis. Harvin is in the conversation with these other guys after 4 years, 3 of which had a below average QB under center. LF has garbage at QB now, but at one point he had Kurt Warner to cement his status.

Also, we have yet to really see how great Harvin can be down the field. This isn’t because he can’t make the plays (Can he ever…) but because the QB has thus far been unable to make the throw. (I would argue this has since improved) Yet, and this is my point, PH is still in the conversation.

Remember, stats only tell you what was, not what will be. Put another way, if Ponder continues to improve do you see any reason that would prevent PH’s inclusion amongst the elite NFL pass catchers?

[losperros]

That really frustrates me too. The last thing the Vikings need is to lose talent in their passing game. If it turns out that Harvin and the team have irreconcilable differences, it will be that much harder for the Vikings to make the improvement in that area they need to make.

As you know, I'm beyond frustrated about it. Admittedly, I'm probably being one-sided in my support for re-signing Harvin but a lot of that is due to the talent hit the passing game takes if he leaves. This is especially true about the receiving corps, an area that I firmly believe is in big, big need of upgrading (and that's even with Harvin still on the team).

AD says he wouldn't trade him:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... cy-harvin/

Thanks for the link. I'm glad Peterson feels that way. I don't want to see the Vikings without AD or Harvin. I'd love to see both of them on the field and healthy next season for the Vikings.

[losperros]

If we do trade Harvin, A comparable player would be Tavon Austin from West Virginia. Only difference is Percy runs way harder.

But the thing with Austin is he's a projected late 1st-2nd round pick and we need a legit downfield threat and/or big body than we do a another Harvin type to take him at 23 and I doubt they spend both their 1st and 2nd on WRs.

I like Tavon Austin a lot but I don't think he's as dynamic as Percy Harvin, and I believe he's even less physically capable of being an NFL every down player than Harvin.

More than likely, the Vikings will go with a bigger WR, which is fine. Should the Vikings trade Percy, I believe they will assume that Jarius Wright can be their little guy and probably attempt to play him in similar situations as they did with Harvin.

[VikingLord]

How are those two things even comparable? The Vikings gave up one draft pick for Ponder, not a batch of them and 5 players. Are you talking about cost or commitment because committing to developing a QB has worked out well for many, many teams.

Depends on the player. Some players are truly elite and will make a difference, while others are not. It's not the position they play so much as what they bring to the field and to the team. In this context, Mike Lynn believed the missing piece to his team was a RB, so he found a RB and hitched his team and his own future as a GM to that player. We know how that turned out for him. I guess what I was trying to point out is that if Frazier and Spielman are essentially willing to let one of their best (and really, only) multi-purpose offensive weapons walk because they refuse to put Ponder's on-field performance in perspective then they're doing something similar to what Lynn did with Walker.

With that said, I agree that neither Harvin nor any other player should be dictating to the coach or GM. If Harvin feels that strongly about Ponder, his best move is to play out his rookie deal and then look elsewhere, or perhaps try to force a trade so he avoids the franchise tag. The latter carries the risk of enhancing his reputation as a difficult player to work with, so hopefully he'd be more inclined to try the former.

Hopefully Harvin has had a change of heart about Ponder, though, and he is willing to give him more chances to develop based on how the season ended. If I were Harvin I'd still have serious doubts about Ponder's ability to carry the team, but Ponder did better as the season ended and, with the prospect that the Vikes might add another offensive weapon or two in FA and/or the draft, Harvin might be well-served to take a deep breath and just give it another go. The team did finish 10-6 and in the playoffs, plus they were playing their best ball as the season ended, so I would hope that encourages everyone on the team to continue working hard and give it their all.

Of course, if I'm Spielman I's also make it painfully clear to Harvin and his agent that only a monster offer is going to pry him loose, so that should help his thinking as well.

[Mothman]

As you know, I'm beyond frustrated about it. Admittedly, I'm probably being one-sided in my support for re-signing Harvin but a lot of that is due to the talent hit the passing game takes if he leaves. This is especially true about the receiving corps, an area that I firmly believe is in big, big need of upgrading (and that's even with Harvin still on the team).

I don't think you're being one-sided. Most of us seem to want him back. In case it's not clear, I do, although I'd like to see an end to the drama. It would stink to see the Vikings lose a talent like Harvin.

OTOH, if they did, they could still improve their passing game. It would just be that much harder. Maybe they'd have to sign someone like Greg Jennings, move Wright into the slot and invest heavily in WR in the draft.

[Mothman]

Depends on the player. Some players are truly elite and will make a difference, while others are not. It's not the position they play so much as what they bring to the field and to the team. In this context, Mike Lynn believed the missing piece to his team was a RB, so he found a RB and hitched his team and his own future as a GM to that player. We know how that turned out for him. I guess what I was trying to point out is that if Frazier and Spielman are essentially willing to let one of their best (and really, only) multi-purpose offensive weapons walk because they refuse to put Ponder's on-field performance in perspective then they're doing something similar to what Lynn did with Walker.

If Harvin's primary issue is with Ponder and not his contract (which seems like a big "if" to me) then I think we come back to the following:

With that said, I agree that neither Harvin nor any other player should be dictating to the coach or GM. If Harvin feels that strongly about Ponder, his best move is to play out his rookie deal and then look elsewhere, or perhaps try to force a trade so he avoids the franchise tag. The latter carries the risk of enhancing his reputation as a difficult player to work with, so hopefully he'd be more inclined to try the former.

Exactly. This isn't really about Ponder or a refusal to put his on-field performance in perspective (I suspect Frazier and Spielman have a very clear perspective on that subject) and it's not about choosing Ponder over Harvin either. It's simply about Harvin.

Hopefully Harvin has had a change of heart about Ponder, though, and he is willing to give him more chances to develop based on how the season ended. If I were Harvin I'd still have serious doubts about Ponder's ability to carry the team, but Ponder did better as the season ended and, with the prospect that the Vikes might add another offensive weapon or two in FA and/or the draft, Harvin might be well-served to take a deep breath and just give it another go. The team did finish 10-6 and in the playoffs, plus they were playing their best ball as the season ended, so I would hope that encourages everyone on the team to continue working hard and give it their all.

I would hope so too and if this season showed anything, it's that Ponder doesn't have to carry the team.

I see only the most circumstantial evidence to suggest Harvin has a serious problem with Ponder in the first place. However, if he does then as you said, he might be well-served to take a deep breath and just give it another go. In fact, he might be well-served to work as hard as he can with Ponder to help them both be better. Peyton Manning used to work extensively with Marvin Harrison (and Reggie Wayne too if I remember correctly) so the two of them good develop and maintain chemistry and be at their best on game days.

Of course, if I'm Spielman I's also make it painfully clear to Harvin and his agent that only a monster offer is going to pry him loose, so that should help his thinking as well.

Amen to that!

[HardcoreVikesFan]

This team let Randy Moss go and never recovered at the WR position. You could argue for Rice and Harvin, but outside of those two it has been a #### show.


If this team let's Harvin go I fear we will feel the residual effects of letting Harvin walk like we did when Randy left.

This team is a good team but it also has its flaws. You don't try to build a team with addition through subtraction, especially when subtraction far exceeds the benefits of any 'addition.'

[mansquatch]

FWIW, I think Money is the huge motivator for Harvin on this. My guess is he thinks he should have been a top 5-10 pick, but the drug stuff caused him to drop and as such he didn’t get his payday. He also probably thinks that given his size, he doesn’t have a 14 year career ahead of him, more likely 10 or 12. That all creates a ton of urgency to “get paid now!”. Tack on Harvin’s willingness to really put his body at risk on the field, and that probably compounds the situation.

My hope is that this is indeed the case. Paying the guy enough money is much easier to fix than personality issues. As with all of this, it is all conjecture at this point.

[dead_poet]

But he has never surpassed 1000 yards receiving, which is a receivers job. He will not be paid like a top receiver because he is not one.

You're right. He's a 967-yard receiver.

But, seriously, he has that capacity. Heck, he was at 677 with 7 games to go. He would've broken 1,000 easily.

[losperros]

Ya I think if he didnt get hurt, he was going to be at the top of the MVP race with AP. I hope we keep him, but I really am worried about his attitude, we need positive minds on this team. He should be working hard and long with Ponder throughout offseason if a deal gets worked out, so they can build that chemistry and hopefully creat a better passing threat.

I think everything you just said is reasonable and I agree with your points.

OTOH, I'm with those who believe when the smoke clears this will all have been about money. Even if attitude figures into it, I believe the bottom line will be what to pay Harvin and what will be considered just too expensive to keep him despite how good he is. As for the media reports, I agree with VU's John Holler that the furious reporting has turned this ordeal into a Reality TV show. Too bad our sports media is more concerned about exploiting everything for their own selfish motives.

[dead_poet]

Percy Harvin - WR - Vikings

Tom Pelissero of 1500 ESPN Twin Cities echoes an NFL.com report that the Vikings are unlikely to garner a first-round pick for Percy Harvin.

Pelissero, the most reliable Vikings beat reporter of them all, says he's "consistently heard" Harvin would only net Minnesota a second- or third-round pick. It appears our initial guess of a "second-rounder and change" might even have been optimistic. If the Vikings can seriously only get a third-rounder for Harvin, they may as well deal with him in 2013, let him walk in 2014, and hope he gets paid big bucks so they can get back a 2015 compensatory pick.
Source: Tom Pelissero on Twitter

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That's complete malarky. A third rounder? Ha. And double ha. This is all over the map.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I'd be pretty upset if that's what ultimately happened. Mallet has proven nothing. And we'd be giving up a legit (late) first-rounder and overall one of the best playmakers in the league for an unproven third-round QB and a unproven fourth-rounder? Pass.

I really don't know where this love some have for Mallet stems from. His college days? The unknown is more attractive than the known?

Ive liked him because of his size and arm str. And the fact he isnt an athletic QB. Hes a pocket passer. And hes got some zip. The opposite of Ponder in other words.

[Laserman]

Hmm,

As good as harvin is, seems to me we have another Bad attitude, ego driven, idiot quitter like Moss again. If he won't grow up, act like a man instead of a brat and play out his contract with honour then the vikings should dump his sorry #### for a 2nd round pick and a player. When he gets 2 1000 yard seasons he can start demanding what he feels he is worth. i don't want to hear that if he didn't get hurt he would break 1000 yards a season, that's part of the job to stay healthy. If he can't stay healthy then he isn't worth what he thinks he's worth.

[Mothman]

Percy Harvin - WR - Vikings

Tom Pelissero of 1500 ESPN Twin Cities echoes an NFL.com report that the Vikings are unlikely to garner a first-round pick for Percy Harvin.

Pelissero, the most reliable Vikings beat reporter of them all, says he's "consistently heard" Harvin would only net Minnesota a second- or third-round pick. It appears our initial guess of a "second-rounder and change" might even have been optimistic. If the Vikings can seriously only get a third-rounder for Harvin, they may as well deal with him in 2013, let him walk in 2014, and hope he gets paid big bucks so they can get back a 2015 compensatory pick.
Source: Tom Pelissero on Twitter

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That's complete malarky. A third rounder? Ha. And double ha. This is all over the map.

What's funny is that we keep hearing things like "there will be no shortage of teams interested in Harvin". If that's the case, there should be sufficient interest to get at least a second round pick if not a first rounder. Harvin's in his athletic prime.

[PurpleMustReign]

Someone told me this morning that Harvin said he would hold out. Has he been quoted recently saying that?