losperros wrote:I agree about the past-tense comment nonsense. That kind of melodramatic reach shows what has happened to so-called sports journalism these days.
Indeed. With a story like this, it seems like most of these guys are just talking to each other, reading each other, speculating in print and repeating the same rumors. I'm not saying they don't have sources (especially the beat writers) but the story seems to take on more weight due to the cumulative effect of being repeated and discussed even though almost nothing new has been added to it. Unless we take Mike Max stepping out on a limb and declaring that Harvin will be traded as new "evidence" the only real development I can recall since the season ended is that Harvin came back for his end of season physical.
Spielman's evasiveness about Harvin's return is barely newsworthy since he's evasive when asked about almost any internal situation regarding a player's contract status.
There's been "smoke" around this story for a long time now but we have yet to see any real fire.
Him missing from the season ticket poster is somewhat interesting.
I feel like there's too much smoke behind this story. It reminds me of the rumors before the Moss trade. Here's hoping they get something decent in return for him at the very least if that happens.
Cliff wrote:Him missing from the season ticket poster is somewhat interesting.
I feel like there's too much smoke behind this story. It reminds me of the rumors before the Moss trade. Here's hoping they get something decent in return for him at the very least if that happens.
The problem is that it's ALL smoke. Sure, Harvin supposedly demanded a trade last summer but whatever prompted his his sudden departure and quick return to camp last summer seemed to be resolved very quickly. From that point forward, we saw very little other than some competitive fire, one angry display at the coach on the sidelines and reports of another angry exchange with Frazier weeks later. Then he was placed on IR and went home. Okay, that stuff is enough to generate smoke but where's the fire? Everything since Harvin went on IR has been speculation. The media has been repeating the same questions for months and all that repetition makes it seem like something must really be brewing. Maybe something is but if any of these guys know more, it would sure be nice if one of them would actually report it. All this speculation is maddening!
If they trade him, I think they need to at least get a second round pick in return, preferably a high second round pick. It would be nice if they could squeeze a second pick out of a trade too, even if it's a 6th or 7th rounder. Then they need to sign a top free agent WR, draft a quality young WR in R1 or R2 and make the most of those moves.
fiestavike wrote:
I think if you go back and watch that press conference on vikings.com, the one just before they put him on IR, there is some fire there. Frazier makes it abundantly clear that there is an issue with Harvin apart from the injury.
Only if Frazier was lying through his teeth when he said this...
“I told (Percy Harvin) how much I love him and want him to be a part of our team,” Frazier told KFAN’s Dan Barreiro in a Feb. 3 interview. “And all those things that he hears in questions that are asked to me about his future in Minnesota, I mean I want him to play for our team. I don’t want him to play for anyone else. And I tried to put that to rest with him. So he’s clear on how I feel. And we have great respect for one another and hope that things will be great next season.”
fiestavike wrote:
I think if you go back and watch that press conference on vikings.com, the one just before they put him on IR, there is some fire there. Frazier makes it abundantly clear that there is an issue with Harvin apart from the injury.
To me, that's just more smoke. It's completely open to interpretation. It could be indicative of a major problem behind the scenes or just an awkward moment due to some friction between he and Harvin over the injury and how the Vikings wanted to handle it. Just to be clear, when I say there's smoke, that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. There are clear indications that the relationship between Harvin and the Vikings isn't perfect, that there is some friction there at times, but there's no fire, no strong evidence that the relationship is irreparably damaged, so strained that the only answer is to trade Harvin.
fiestavike wrote:also, its a good sign how little info there is floating around about this. I credit the vikings organization for improving their MO. In the past the media could get access to everything in the locker room. Seems like they are running a tighter ship these days.
To me the fire is mostly from last year when Harvin wanted to be traded. Comments like;
"I'll put it this way, it's a lot of different things that have to be sorted out," Harvin said on Tuesday. "Just haven't been too happy lately. So we've got a couple things to work on."
If his production improved perhaps that was the majority of his compaints ... but he said it was "a lot of different things" whatever that means. I guess the bottom line is this staff doesn't seem to be the kind that will coddle Harvin and so I can't imagine all of those issues were worked out in one season.
I know it's speculation at this point but it just feels like something has to be feeding all of that smoke ... the story just isn't exciting enough for it to take on a life of it's own like this in my opinion.
The Minneapolis Star-Tribune expects to gauge trade interest in Percy Harvin at next week's Scouting Combine.
Specifically, beat writer Dan Wiederer expects the Vikings to "cast a few Harvin-baited hooks into the waters and see if there are any nibbles." However, Wiederer stops short of confirming Harvin is on the block. Both GM Rick Spielman and coach Leslie Frazier have publicly insisted they want Harvin back with the team in 2013. If Harvin is truly on the market, the Vikings won't need to rush things with one of the league's most dynamic young players. Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 14531.html
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
Cliff wrote:Looks like the speculation won't end any time soon. The story is the main article on NFL.com right now.
It won't end until he's traded or re-signed.
I'm guessing the #1 issue here is money. That's usually the case and I wouldn't be surprised if Harvin wants a payday the Vikings are reluctant to give him. I'm sure there are other factors at work in whatever is going on but (in my opinion) the contract is almost certainly the biggest factor.
As good as Harvin is, he's not a typical "#1" receiver. He's never topped 1000 yards receiving and to at least some extent, his durability is in question. I don't think it's a huge question like it was with rice but it's a factor that has to be considered in contract negotiations.
On the other hand, he's as versatile as a player can be and he provides great value as a kick returner and runner as well as a receiver. The question is: what do you pay a player with his particular mix of skills and emotional... quirks? How does that compare to what he wants to be paid?
I doubt we'd be seeing this situation or these rumors if this wasn't a contract year for Harvin.
Last edited by Mothman on Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The thing is, that goes two ways. Yes, he isn’t a traditional #1. But then again, how many #1s are a threat to take every kick off to the house? Harvin IS what the Bears dreamed Hester would be. Harvin isn’t going to make your bread and butter grabs like a more A-typical WR, but he is a threat any time he gets the ball, including all those 1 yard or behind the LOS passes. He can also completely wreak havoc on a defense that sells out to stop AP. Durability is a concern, but I think they need to do a better job of managing that risk via his touches. Also, most of his high pass count games were when AP was still shaking off some of the ACL Kryptonite. I think having AP healthy will go a long way to helping Havin’s durability questions.
Harvin proved over a short season last year that they can build an offense around him. Why would you not want that guy on your team? Especially when you’ve got another one playing RB?
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
mansquatch wrote:The thing is, that goes two ways. Yes, he isn’t a traditional #1. But then again, how many #1s are a threat to take every kick off to the house? Harvin IS what the Bears dreamed Hester would be. Harvin isn’t going to make your bread and butter grabs like a more A-typical WR, but he is a threat any time he gets the ball, including all those 1 yard or behind the LOS passes. He can also completely wreak havoc on a defense that sells out to stop AP. Durability is a concern, but I think they need to do a better job of managing that risk via his touches.
Of course, when they tried that in 2011 they were blasted for it and we ended up with Harvin walking out of camp because he was "unhappy" last summer.
Harvin proved over a short season last year that they can build an offense around him. Why would you not want that guy on your team? Especially when you’ve got another one playing RB?
I don't think there's ANY question that you'd want a guy with Harvin's talent on the team but his talent may not be the only consideration. What is his attitude? I don't know, but it's clearly a question worth asking? How much do you pay him? Harvin is a terrific football player, a versatile and unconventional weapon but because he's unconventional, I think that makes it a little more difficult to determine how much is enough and how much is too much.
I do not mind prognosticating on the PH situation as it is the offseason for both of my favorite sports so I do not have much else to do. However, I have long felt that the absolute true of PH will be revealed when he either A.) Signs his new contract or B.) Is traded elsewhere. For that reason I haven’t towed the line on “needing more info” as much since the offseason started as I do not think we’ll get any unless Harvin goes completely off the Terrell Owens deep end and starts having public temper tantrums.
Jim your questions are valid, but this whole story line is predicated entirely on the cliché of “where there is smoke there’s fire.” Not just by us, but also by the media. Ever since Harvin entered the league there has been this steady drip of semi-related stories or rumored incidents, all the while, the guy plays his guts out. Some of it is certainly well founded, most notably the Seattle game outburst. I just think we are not going to know until the end is upon us.
FWIW, I think he stays in MN. The only way I see them parting ways is if he is such a cancer they just can’t make it work. IMO, he hasn’t shown himself to be that kind of player. Harvin does way too much on the field, they’ll find a way to make him happy.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
Mothman wrote:I'm guessing the #1 issue here is money. That's usually the case and I wouldn't be surprised if Harvin wants a payday the Vikings are reluctant to give him. I'm sure there are other factors at work in whatever is going on but (in my opinion) the contract is almost certainly the biggest factor.
As good as Harvin is, he's not a typical "#1" receiver. He's never topped 1000 yards receiving and to at least some extent, his durability is in question. I don't think it's a huge question like it was with rice but it's a factor that has to be considered in contract negotiations.
On the other hand, he's as versatile as a player can be and he provides great value as a kick returner and runner as well as a receiver. The question is: what do you pay a player with his particular mix of skills and emotional... quirks? How does that compare to what he wants to be paid?
I i doubt we'd be seeing this situation or these rumors if this wasn't a contract year for Harvin.
These have been my identical thoughts on the subject. Money is at play here and it will be until Harvin is re-signed or both sides decide they can't come to terms. While I believe the Vikings should pay Harvin a bunch, I imagine there is always an amount that is simply *too much* even for the best of players.
I still doubt that the Vikings will trade Harvin. But if they do, then they better receive something big time in return. As I said before, the Vikings absolutely should not do anything to weaken an already feeble passing game. It's almost as if the Vikings can't afford to not afford Harvin, if you know what I mean.
My biggest fear with giving Harvin a huge long term contract is that it will tell him he can do whatever he pleases, because the Vikings need him so much.
I think his Migraines were fake, I think sometimes he fakes injuries during games so he can get on the sidelines. Above all, he is another one of these I play when I want to play Divas.
A Superbowl Trophy would be great for me as a fan, but not at the cost of the organization's reputation and soul. I say trade him and get what you can.
And he could be preparing to take a stand in order to get it. Per a league source, Harvin currently is expected to stay away from offseason workouts and training camp absent a new deal.
