Ponder wants Simpson to return

[PurpleKoolaid]

The last sentence of Jim last post pretty much sums up my posistion too.

Simpson doesnt really fill any roll for me. Again, unless he is cheap. There simply has to be someone better then Simpsona dn Jenkins to choose from. And PH is 'our' #1WR and hopefully will be next year as well.

[MrPurplenGold]

What do you mean that being tall DOESN'T help

Reread my post. I did not say that they were/are ranked in order I did say that the top #1 receivers in the league are 6-3 and fast. Your list is the #1 receivers on various teams. My list and pretty much in the order of how they finished in league receptions for the year (2012). http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/ ... on-leaders

I meant being tall does help, but it doesn't determine whether someone is a #1 WR or not. No, my list is the top 10-12 statistically based on criteria such as receptions, yards/reception, and receiving yards; basically the same thing that you look at. You just ignored the WR's that are 6'0 or shorter in your list

[Purple bruise]

I meant being tall does help, but it doesn't determine whether someone is a #1 WR or not. No, my list is the top 10-12 statistically based on criteria such as receptions, yards/reception, and receiving yards; basically the same thing that you look at. You just ignored the WR's that are 6'0 or shorter in your list

I was not overlooking anyone. I stated that the top#1 receivers are over 6-3 and fast. That does not mean that there are not good #1's that are not 6-3. I would say that Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall and Vincent Jackson types are pretty much the best in the league.

[mansquatch]

How can Julio Jones and Roddy White both be considered #1 WR, don't they both play for the same team?

[Purple bruise]

How can Julio Jones and Roddy White both be considered #1 WR, don't they both play for the same team?

They do and you are right. I would say the obvious, both would be #1 wideouts on a whole lot of other team especially the Vikings.

[mansquatch]

My take on the Vikings is that PH is the #1 WR. No matter who else lines up on the outside, you want PH to get his touches. What they need is an outside threat. So then do they want more of a hands guy or more of a speed guy. (I know you want both) If they want speed, why not resign JS? If they want the 6'3"+ tall guy with hands, then what is KR supposed to be? Doesn't he already fill this niche even though he lacks wheels.

I think the real question is what they want this 3rd receiving option to be, that will determine what they do. My opinion is they want a deep threat / field stretching kind of guy and that both JS and JW can fill that need. (So can Harvin) Keep in mind we never say a healthy JS, PH, and KR on the field at the same time in 2012.

[Purple bruise]

My take on the Vikings is that PH is the #1 WR. No matter who else lines up on the outside, you want PH to get his touches. What they need is an outside threat. So then do they want more of a hands guy or more of a speed guy. (I know you want both) If they want speed, why not resign JS? If they want the 6'3"+ tall guy with hands, then what is KR supposed to be? Doesn't he already fill this niche even though he lacks wheels.

I think the real question is what they want this 3rd receiving option to be, that will determine what they do. My opinion is they want a deep threat / field stretching kind of guy and that both JS and JW can fill that need. (So can Harvin) Keep in mind we never say a healthy JS, PH, and KR on the field at the same time in 2012.

They mainly need someone who can catch the ball and get quick seperation. Ponder usually has about 3 seconds to throw the ball and quite often no one is open.

[Mothman]

My take on the Vikings is that PH is the #1 WR. No matter who else lines up on the outside, you want PH to get his touches. What they need is an outside threat. So then do they want more of a hands guy or more of a speed guy. (I know you want both) If they want speed, why not resign JS? If they want the 6'3"+ tall guy with hands, then what is KR supposed to be? Doesn't he already fill this niche even though he lacks wheels.

No, he plays a different position. Having a sure-handed tall receiver on the outside is quite different from having a big TE. All TEs are big.

I think the real question is what they want this 3rd receiving option to be, that will determine what they do. My opinion is they want a deep threat / field stretching kind of guy and that both JS and JW can fill that need.

There's very little evidence that either of those players can fill that need with any consistency. Simpson didn't come close to filling it this season and he didn't play sound football at times either. Wright caught a few deep passes so he can be a deep threat but can he do that consistently enough to be considered a solution on the outside? Can he create serious matchup problems for opposing defenses? It's possible but the Vikes need someone on the outside who can catch at least 6+ TDs and produce 700+ receiving yards in a season, preferably more. I'm not sure that's Wright but I'd love to see him do it.

Jim

[Purple bruise]

No, he plays a different position. Having a sure-handed tall receiver on the outside is quite different from having a big TE. All TEs are big.
There's very little evidence that either of those players can fill that need with any consistency. Simpson didn't come close to filling it this season and he didn't play sound football at times either. Wright caught a few deep passes so he can be a deep threat but can he do that consistently enough to be considered a solution on the outside? Can he create serious matchup problems for opposing defenses? It's possible but the Vikes need someone on the outside who can catch at least 6+ TDs and produce 700+ receiving yards in a season, preferably more. I'm not sure that's Wright but I'd love to see him do it.

Jim

A big, tall, fast sure handed wide receiver is a must. I lament about losing Childs, he has/had the perfect size, hands and speed that the Vikings sorely miss. That all being said the Vikes must improve their pass protection.

[Mothman]

A big, tall, fast sure handed wide receiver is a must. I lament about losing Childs, he has/had the perfect size, hands and speed that the Vikings sorely miss. That all being said the Vikes must improve their pass protection.

That's true. I don't think the OL can be considered a finished product yet (and, of course, there's more to pass protection than just the OL so the TEes and backs must step up in that department as well).

[mansquatch]

Call it a hunch, but I bet we'll see some FA activity at OG.

[Mothman]

Call it a hunch, but I bet we'll see some FA activity at OG.

I hope so! That would be great, especially if they could sign a good young guard like Andy Levitre.

[Purple bruise]

I hope so! That would be great, especially if they could sign a good young guard like Andy Levitre.

I think that Johnson should be replaced but I think that Fusco could morph into a powerfull and effective guard with a nasty disposition. Sullivan was on PA show and was saying as much.

[Pondering Her Percy]

yeah I know, everyone keeps telling me a #! WR has to be at least 6'3'' and almost as fast as PH....Didnt PH lead the NFL at one time before he got hurt? How does Brady do it?

Brady is Brady. A #1 WR is usually taller (not always) but he is a guy that is a big time deep threat and can take the top off of defenses.

Examples:
Some Past guys:
Randy Moss
TO
Ocho
Plaxico Burress

More Present:
Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
AJ Green
Mike Wallace
Vincent Jackson
Dez Bryant
Dwayne Bowe
Stevie Johnson
Torrey Smith
Reggie Wayne
Demaryius Thomas
Julio Jones or Roddy White
Marques Colston
Sidney Rice
...etc.

Percy Harvin is similar to Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, etc...they come out of the slot. Most of their production comes from the slot....not the outside which in turn makes them a #3. Your #1 is your "X" receiver on the outside (Big deep threat). Your #2 is your "Y" receiver and is the other outside guy (compliment to your #1). Your #3 is your "z" and your slot guy. Now yes...Percy Harvin led the team is catches and yardage before but he's coming from the slot. A #1 WR doesnt come from the slot. He is your big time outside WR. The only thing Harvin is #1 in is catches and yardage...but in WR terms that doesnt mean he is the "#1" on the outside. The guys listed above are proven, true #1's that can take the top off a defense.

[Mothman]

Percy Harvin is similar to Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, etc...they come out of the slot. Most of their production comes from the slot....not the outside which in turn makes them a #3. Your #1 is your "X" receiver on the outside (Big deep threat). Your #2 is your "Y" receiver and is the other outside guy (compliment to your #1). Your #3 is your "z" and your slot guy. Now yes...Percy Harvin led the team is catches and yardage before but he's coming from the slot. A #1 WR doesnt come from the slot. He is your big time outside WR. The only thing Harvin is #1 in is catches and yardage...but in WR terms that doesnt mean he is the "#1" on the outside. The guys listed above are proven, true #1's that can take the top off a defense.

Actually, I'm fairly certain the slot receiver is the Y receiver and the flanker is usually the Z. The XYZ designations usually go from left to right but even if they go from right to left, the Z receiver is always on the outside.

Personally, I find the easiest and least confusing way to think of and discuss receivers is to dispense with the letters and numbers and just refer to them by position. So, for those who may not be familiar with the specific types of wide receiver:

Split end (the X receiver): The WR who lines up on the line of scrimmage, furthest from the center, and covers the tackle. He is the required 7th man on the line of scrimmage.

Flanker (the Z receiver): The other outside receiver, usually on the same side as the TE. He lines up behind the line of scrimmage.

Slot receiver (Y): This can be a TE in some formations. As most of you know, the slot receiver lines up between one of the outside receivers and the linemen. The slot receiver can line on or off the line of scrimmage.

I hope that's useful info to someone.

I'm not aware of any formal agreement about the numerical designations you applied above other than perhaps describing the position receivers occupy on the depth chart. #1 usually seems to refer to the best receiver on a team or the top receivers in the league (since some teams could be said to lack a "#1 receiver") but I have yet to see a concise definition of the term.

A team's biggest deep threat can really come from any of the 3 WR positions. Sometimes it's a split end but teams often line their speedier receivers up at flanker or in the slot because playing off the line helps them to avoid being jammed and get a clean release. On some plays, the Vikes used to run Moss out of the slot and I don't think there's any doubt that he was their #1 receiver.