Eli wrote:
That's the thing. It wasn't really a terrible game. With Webb at quarterback, they had zero chance to win, playing good or bad. The defense played about the same as they had against the Packers in the other games, and Peterson had nearly 100 yards. No, this game was a lost cause from the start.
Which is a bad game.
Look, it didn't take a genius to see ... the minute they announced Joe Webb as the starter, we were doomed. I didn't know he would be THAT bad, but it was pretty obvious that he wasn't going to be able to handle it mentally.
You're exactly right. We need a quality backup for sure, along with a developmental QB.
But think about this in the grand scheme for a moment. We were 3-13 last year. This was supposed to be a rebuilding season. To expect quality backups at every position, especially QB, is probably asking a bit much at this juncture. We don't even have quality starters at every position.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I agree J kapp. I have been tough on Ponder and Fraizer and Ponder all year. Overall so. We had an excellent draft. IMO, one of our best overall ever, and we had one guy go down the first game. But Webb as a backup? come one. We shouldnt have let Sage go. And we should have let Webb go last year. Its a tiny thing, but turned out to be a big thing last night.
We are in so much better shape now then when Favre and Childress were here. Every person on this board has got to know this.
Like I just said in a previous post, given where we started -- from a 3-13 disaster -- expecting a quality backup at every position just isn't realistic.
Hopefully the staff saw what the entire nation saw last night -- Joe Webb is a wonderful athlete and not much of a QB -- and will take steps to correct the situation.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
I agree. But its also horrible coaching, horrible talent scouting (if Webb was all they could come up with as a backup QB), and bad drafting. I think at least 75% of the people on this board never wanted to see Webb, and yet the coaching staff has been fine with him as out backup and let Sage go?
Sage isn't even in the league anymore, and was nothing more than a part time backup QB in his 12 years. Webb is a very different QB and circumstance than 98% of QB's drafted.
A successful coach needs a patient wife, loyal dog, and great quarterback - and not necessarily in that order.
Who cares if Sage isnt in the league? He was when we cut him. So no other teams needed him, we did, and he knew our system. Was he ever great? Nope? Was he ever good? not really? Did you see our QB last night? He was better then that in is worst game, while standing on his head. My point is, we let the wrong back up QB go.
Yes, Webb had a horrible game, but the kid is not a joke and there is plenty of blame to spread around for last night's debacle. That wasn't even the worst Vikings QB performance of the year. Ponder was much worse against a lousy Cardinals team back in October, but the rest of the team played well enough to squeak out a win.
It is very clear that Webb was not ready to be thrown to the Pack at Lambeau in January and that is as much the coaching staff's responsibility as his own. He is supposed to be a viable backup and he simply wasn't. Maybe if they had played Webb a little bit, late in games when Ponder was stinking it up, he would have settled down and done better last night. Or maybe they would have realized he is in the wrong league and promoted MBT to backup. There is no substitute for real game action to see if a QB can play ball.
soflavike wrote:Yes, Webb had a horrible game, but the kid is not a joke and there is plenty of blame to spread around for last night's debacle. That wasn't even the worst Vikings QB performance of the year. Ponder was much worse against a lousy Cardinals team back in October, but the rest of the team played well enough to squeak out a win.
It is very clear that Webb was not ready to be thrown to the Pack at Lambeau in January and that is as much the coaching staff's responsibility as his own. He is supposed to be a viable backup and he simply wasn't. Maybe if they had played Webb a little bit, late in games when Ponder was stinking it up, he would have settled down and done better last night. Or maybe they would have realized he is in the wrong league and promoted MBT to backup. There is no substitute for real game action to see if a QB can play ball.
Oh, well... spilt milk and all that jazz.
Maybe not a joke, but certainly not a legitimate backup in the NFL at this point.
And at three full seasons in the league, it's a fair question to ask if he ever will be. The same issues he's had from the beginning -- the most glaring of which is a dreadful lack of accuracy -- are still plaguing him now. Who cares if he can throw it 75 yards if he can't hit the ocean standing on the beach? I think it's reasonable to ask what the guy has been doing. How has he worked to improve himself? This looks like the same raw kid out of UAB who started a couple of games in '10 and '11. There's absolutely no polish, after three full seasons in the league.
If that's the fault of coaching, well, OK ... I guess some blame can go there. But the player has some responsibility, too.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:Who cares if Sage isnt in the league? He was when we cut him. So no other teams needed him, we did, and he knew our system. Was he ever great? Nope? Was he ever good? not really? Did you see our QB last night? He was better then that in is worst game, while standing on his head. My point is, we let the wrong back up QB go.
Yep, Spielman did this team a disservice not keeping him around. Not only to help out Ponder but in case he got hurt and someone needed to fill in. Pathetic how the team has handled the QB situation since we lost Culpepper.
So his unpreparedness means he throws the ball into the third five yards in front of a receiver with no pressure? Or into the sideline over an open receivers head? If he can't even make semi-accurate passes to open receivers without any real pressure...you can find third stringers on a number of teams that could make those throws, finding out you're starting before the game or not.
I think we can all agree on the fact that Webb is not a Quarterback. If anything I'd rather have him try as a Wideout. As fast as he is and the problems we're apparently having with Harvin, why not give Webb a chance there? Without a doubt though, he should not be at the Helm of the Offense.
If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi We are inclined to think that if we watch a football game or a baseball game, we have taken part in it.
John F. Kennedy
We've tried him at WR in practice, he apparently can't catch (among other things). As physically gifted as he is, I don't think he's suited for any position in the nfl. If there was a develOpmental league, he could benefit from it, but there isn't. I think it may be time to give up on the Webb experiment and maybe he can have success in another system as a sort of wildcat/slasher type, otherwise there should be plenty of opportunity for him to succeed in the cfl
3.) Vikes staff are either blind or incompetent to have Webb in the plan as the #1 Back-up...showing us how bad Webb really plays is NOT going to make Ponder look any better.
4.) We had a real chance at winning that damn game...the defense did well, holding the Pack to 24 points while getting NO support from any whiff of an offense and AP had 99 yards with No QB on the field.....ANY competent 2nd string QB from most any other team could have pulled this off....THAT is what sucks....
PurpleKoolaid wrote:Who cares if Sage isnt in the league? He was when we cut him. So no other teams needed him, we did, and he knew our system. Was he ever great? Nope? Was he ever good? not really? Did you see our QB last night? He was better then that in is worst game, while standing on his head. My point is, we let the wrong back up QB go.
Sorry, you're not making the sell when comparing a QB nobody wanted and no longer in the league after he was cut, compared to a unique draft like Webb.
Better perspective below:
Webb in Front
In all likelihood, Joe Webb never had a chance. When the Vikings shockingly revealed on Saturday afternoon that Christian Ponder was inactive for the game against Green Bay,3 the line in Vegas jumped from 7.5 points to 10.5 pretty quickly. Webb had received the first-team reps in practice while Ponder tried to rest his ailing elbow, but the reality was just that there wasn't enough to work with in the Minnesota offense for Webb to score on the road in frigid weather. Having Adrian Peterson is one thing, but throwing to a group of wideouts that includes Michael Jenkins, Jerome Simpson, and Jarius Wright as its primary weapons just isn't the recipe for matching touchdowns with Aaron Rodgers. Ponder was able to do it last week while...........
chicagopurple wrote:!.)Webb is NOT an NFL QB....Period
YES HE IS.
2.) Ponder is, at best, a back-up QB.
3.) Vikes staff are either blind or incompetent to have Webb in the plan as the #1 Back-up...showing us how bad Webb really plays is NOT going to make Ponder look any better.
4.) We had a real chance at winning that damn game...the defense did well, holding the Pack to 24 points while getting NO support from any whiff of an offense and AP had 99 yards with No QB on the field.....ANY competent 2nd string QB from most any other team could have pulled this off....THAT is what sucks....
Now here would be a discussion to kill time before the draft. I'd like to see a list of 'ANY competent 2nd string QB' that could have stepped in and won under these circumstances.
A successful coach needs a patient wife, loyal dog, and great quarterback - and not necessarily in that order.
